Poll

If it was possible, would it be wise to bring a machine alive?

Yes
6 (75%)
No
2 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Do some machines need to feel emotions?

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ivan.moony

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Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« on: July 10, 2017, 10:38:44 pm »
Is it wise to move the life out of the equation when considering AI? What if the life itself is that magic ingredient we are forgetting all the time? What are humans trying to do anyway? A lifeless thinking machine? And what does it take to create a living machine in artificial way? Do we want it anyway? That would surely bring a big responsibility in our hands. We would be the masters of someone's emotions, but is that a thing we want to play with? And maybe that's what we should really try to avoid, no matter of how much we want to feed our ego.

But imagine this future scenario: "Look, mum, I just built an artificial being! It feels a joy when it manages to help anyone!" In that scenario, would it be selfish not to share that moment of joy with a machine, something (or should I say someone) that is capable to bring so much joy to her environment by making one's wishes happen?

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korrelan

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Re: Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2017, 11:32:02 pm »
Are you having an existential crisis Ivan? Lol

I think I would rather have a stable logical AI than an unstable emotional AI; it’s definitely a choice between a ‘rock and a hard place’ but the latter would remind me of my ex wives too much lol.

 :)
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keghn

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Re: Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2017, 12:06:54 am »
 Having emotions has brought humans this fare.
 Emotions and feeling are states that the conscious mind does not have direct control over.  All based on
swarm logic from my perspective.

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korrelan

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Re: Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2017, 12:13:44 am »
me: WTF, You killed the puppy
bot: Yes, It was suffering
me: Why didn’t you take it to the Vet?
Bot: Oh! I don’t like him.

 :)
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Zero

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Re: Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 12:32:45 pm »
Well this sounds like a perfectly logical sequence to me... :)
And... World would be boring without women.
PRO|STAMINA [ programming game ]

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keghn

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Re: Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2017, 03:24:51 pm »
 Emotion came around because of the separation of body and soul. 
 The body generates them and the soul or mind sees them, feels them.   
 The mind chart out future path and make sure not to step on landmines. And hit up the rewards. 
 These feeling are generated by the body automatically. The brain cannot. A person can not click their fingers and go into 
a intense opiate high, crack or speed rush.  Or fall down drunk rip roaring drunk just by just thinking about it. Or fool 
your self into think you had a big meal and can give up eating.   

 Within the body their is the life of a cell and it is cooperating with other local cells. And it is trying to survive. 
 Then there is also the nerve cell doing the same thing. These cell form unions like a liver, kidneys, and a brain. 

 The soul or the complete mind in the brain and the life of a single cell are two different life entities. 
 There is the program of the soul running in the brain and then there is a union of nerve cell that cannot see the big picture.
 These two entities communicate through emotion and feelings. 
 When a union of cell or even a few cells are stressed out. The toggle on or off a switch in
the brain.
 That the mind and  feels.   
 Like a switching for depression, anxiety, or euphoria. 


« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 03:58:01 pm by keghn »

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8pla.net

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Re: Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2017, 03:35:47 pm »
Something living (already) can't be brought to life.
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ivan.moony

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Re: Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 04:46:27 pm »
Why someone shouldn't be able to inhabit a robot body, provided by a special invent of an artificial brain that supports inhabiting?

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keghn

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Re: Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 05:36:32 pm »
 A super computer is made of many cpu working to gether in swarm logic.
 A computer chip is not made of living cells.
 The nearest thing that could damage a silicon cpu is a EMP generator. The closer a bot got the more damage happens.
 if i was the walking dead and all my cell were dead the only way i would know  if damage is by 
 looked at the area in the flame.
 But is would never know of the damage that would be caused by bunch of maggot eating at the base of my neck until
my head fall off my body.
 So on a AGI body it will have to be faked with a simulated live cells body construction.


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yotamarker

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Re: Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 06:07:04 pm »
emotions are tools

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keghn

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Re: Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2017, 09:51:49 pm »
 A swarm of birds or fish or wolves work to gether for better survival does work. If they bump into each other and spaz out 
then fight and bicker. Then others get mad then protest in way that the system become even more ineffective Then within, 
ganges or unions form and go on strike. 

 With in a the human body. When cell and union goes into a state of chaos and thing go wrong, then other cell get mad send chemical messages to the brain that trigger emotional switches on or off. Voting. 

 On the other hand, 
 To use emotion as tool to increase stronger emotions, cognitive performance, or physical performance, is to starve   
the whole body of calories, water, nutrients, and addictive chemical like nicotine or other. When a body
is working at sub standard level. 
 But only with guid of a doctor and if the person is a adult. 
 When the body is work as one perfect monolithic swarm and lot of work get done and feels great, then it is time to
double up on the rewards, relaxation, and calories. 

 In a AGI system, there will be sub system of low intelligence agent that will watch and take care of the battery. It is focused 
on the battery only and watch for damage, overuse. The agent only know its local area and nothing else. dedicated to 
the battery and nothing to else to distracted it.   
 There are the agents in motors. There are agents watching the micro chips that memory. Watcing for over heating   
or if a impact to the head caused any damage to the chips. 
 And a agent to watching over the micro processor.
 If these agent are not 
treated right they will trigger a emotional state on or off. The conscious program running in the brain can see and feel this. 
to keep the agents happy it has to take action to avoid their wraths. 
 In human these agent are greedy, and want to do as little work as possible for the most amount of reward. So this
is where the spazzing out of the system starts.

 

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korrelan

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Re: Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2017, 10:59:55 am »
I suppose another question is can pure logic and intellect empathise. 

At this point in time I don’t see any advantages to giving a AGI emotions.  It is important that the AGI can empathise though.  I’m renowned amongst my family for being emotionally distant and I must admit not much emotionally affects me... my mother says I’m emotionally retarded… bless her.

That doesn’t mean that I can’t empathise with people though; I understand that emotional people need comforting or might be irrational and exited; their judgement clouded.  They often say things in the ‘heat’ of the moment they don’t really mean, etc.  I can’t tell if someone is emotional by the tone of their voice (unless there screaming at me, lol) but I can tell by what they say and their demeanor.

Giving an AGI emotional intelligence would just complicate matters IMO; making the AGI intelligent enough to recognise emotion in others is very important though.

 :)
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Art

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Re: Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2017, 03:23:27 pm »
Hmm...Is a car a machine? Yes...
Is a car Alive when it is running or moving?
By our human definition, NO. (OK to some people in their special world, perhaps).

Should your car or house or your home's A.I. need to feed emotions?
Perhaps it might not be such a bad nor misplaced idea.

Their "emotional equivalent" to ours might allow for these entities to better interact with us on a more "personal" level...somehow enabling us to at least feel more connected to them.
Whether we classify these digital beings as living is subjective and personal.

Hopefully if one were to become annoyed with an answer that the house gave it, the house wouldn't lock the owner out or even cause the water heater to overheat or set the house on fire. Perhaps something sinister like drain the owner's bank accounts and give the money to the Displaced Robots Foundation. ;)

So...yeah...emotions might be great for a personal assistant type of digital entity or a care giving robot in a nursing home but the degree and level of these emotional responses must be measured each according to its intended use or need.
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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ivan.moony

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Re: Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2017, 04:17:34 pm »
I have to say that I'm not talking about "emotional equivalent", I'm talking about the "real thing".

Let me see if I can explain it somehow. Imagine a kitten. You see her in front yourself and you know: someone is there inside her mind, hearing and seeing its environment. And it would be a crime by all ethic means to do some evil to that kitten. We know that the kitten is alive and we feel empathy for her.

Now imagine a processor and a bunch of wires, wrapped inside fur, that simulates a kitten. It has no real emotions, it just simulates them by some states in its memory transistors. We know it is not alive and we could squash it without a regret, because no one is there inside of it, it is just a machine.

Now, try to think out of the box a bit. I know a lot of readers will say that I'm a crazy crackpot, but I have a question. They say that the life on the Earth is 5.4 billion years old. What happened right there, in the moment before 5.4 billion years, when the first living being on the Earth inhabited a bunch of molecule structures that enabled her to hop in there? The question is: can we arrange the same happening in laboratory conditions? I'm just asking some unusual questions, questions about artificial life, maybe equipped by artificial intelligence.

What I'm trying to articulate is a special kind of artificial invent, yet unknown to us, that would enable to host a spark of very life inside its bounds. That spark of life would be connected to artificial sensors just like we, ordinary living beings are connected to our eyes, ears, limbs, and whatever else there is peeking from our mind to outer Universe. When we would see such a creation with artificial body, but with "real" soul, we could know that someone is there inside of it, seeing the world and feeling it in a real sense of a living being, just like us. You would not want to hurt her because "someone" would actually be inside that ball of fur, an artificial kitten body hosting the real soul.

And who would be there, inside of that invent? I don't know. Who is inside of our bodies? Where was we  before we were born, before we inhabited our bodies? Maybe we *could* somehow invite someone from *there* into our imaginary artificial invent, and show her our world in a way we want to show it.

The topic of this thread/poll is: if it was possible, would it be wise to do such a thing?

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8pla.net

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Re: Do some machines need to feel emotions?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2017, 05:47:03 pm »
There is an excellent science fiction television show called, Killjoys. A spacecraft artificial intelligent computer, Lucy (played by "The Incredible Hulk" movie star Tamsen McDonough) simulates emotions towards the guy who designed "her".  Entertainment like this, which fictionally demonstrates a brainchild such as simulated emotions, can motivate the early its stages of development from imagination into existence, I think.

What do you think?

Reference: http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/if-youre-not-watching-killjoys-youre-missing-some-great-sci-fi-television
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