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1
New Users Please Post Here / Re: Dreaming
« Last post by keghn on Today at 08:16:33 pm »
  I am going other forum trying to get interest in them, to the young. Before they develop their AI concepts the on the old logic. 
 What forum do you go to? 
 I am light years ahead of any competition. So their is no one to judge me. I am keeping a sharp eye
on any other competition.  I judge them. 
 Also i look for other people who show similar thoughts and try to show them my way. 

 You have any theories of you own? 
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General AI Discussion / Re: AI safety
« Last post by ivan.moony on Today at 08:11:20 pm »
In fact, you want to create a slave, not an evolving being. Am I right?

I want to create something that wouldn't be ashamed of its existence, something that, if it was alive, would be proud of its deeds. I want to create something that would have abilities and personality I could only dream of. It would be up to people how they want to relate to it. I'm saying "it" because I'm not sure if it could be "inhabited" by a living being (a life phenomena explanation would be needed for this, but I'm not a fan of a thought that a buggy processor controls emotions).

But, if it is not alive, it should be aware that it isn't alive. Do you consider a car as a slave? It is a tool, but such a dumb tool that you don't ask it for a real life advice. [EDIT] AI would be something completely different.

[EDIT] Correction: I don't want to create AI alone, by myself. I want to present my own version of AI, the way I see it should be done, but I want also to provide a tool for creating AI, so everyone could make their own vision happen. Something like do-it-yourself kit.
3
General AI Discussion / Re: AI safety
« Last post by WriterOfMinds on Today at 07:26:42 pm »
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I guess you would agree that every atom in the universe behaves according to the laws of physics, right? But free will exists, right? Then there's only one possible truth about this: free will exists inside of determinism.
If there is no spiritual world that influences the physical, then I don't see how actual free will can exist.

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Because then, we would become simple mechanisms.
According to you, we already are. I'll repeat: I can't see any relevant difference between being manipulated by my genetics and personal history, and being manipulated by direct mind control.

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To me, in "free will", "free" means "free from ignorance", not "free from causality". You don't ignore what happens in your mind. This is why you're legally responsible for your acts.
I guess you and I have different ideas about what free will even means, then. If I am free from ignorance and have all the information, but some formula or coin flip determines how I react to that information, than as far as I can tell I still don't have free will or personal responsibility.

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This is not a choice, this is a reaction. There's no subjectivity here.
I don't see how an AI can have choice, then. I don't see how we give it subjectivity.
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General AI Discussion / Re: AI safety
« Last post by Zero on Today at 07:12:05 pm »
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If I were like you and thought that human minds were mere physically deterministic machines, then I suppose I would advocate taking their illusory "free will" away.

Why do you think that human mind's determinism makes human free will illusory? I can't see any relationship between "determinism" and "illusion".

I guess you would agree that every atom in the universe behaves as the laws of physics dictate, right? But free will exists, right? Then there's only one possible truth about this: free will exists inside of determinism.

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If human behavior is 100% determined, why not determine it in a positive way? If we're already prisoners of our genetics and environment, why not throw deliberate manipulation into the mix?

Because then, we would become simple mechanisms. Poetry, music, art would disappear, beauty would disappear, love would disappear. Our civilization would become a pointless multi-agent system.

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I don't see how the ability to "self predict" changes anything. When you predict the consequences of your own actions, you get to decide whether you can tolerate those consequences or not. What drives that decision? In your idea of what the human mind is, isn't the outcome of self-prediction also determined before the fact? Isn't it also a mere product of genetics and environment?

It doesn't get you out of determinism, if that's what you mean. But it gets you out of ignorance. To me, in "free will", "free" means "free from ignorance", not "free from causality". You don't ignore what happens in your mind. This is why you're legally responsible for your acts.

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I think all you've done by bringing in this idea of self prediction is to move the problem. How will our AI decide which branch of the dilemma it likes better, as it imagines the results of both? Will it flip a coin? Or will it execute some formula based on its programming and past experiences?

If you ask me twice the same question, I'll give you twice the same answer. Coin flip, formula, it doesn't matter.

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"If X do Y, else do Z" is the sort of choice an AI can make, and it isn't free will.

This is not a choice, this is a reaction. There's no subjectivity here.

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I have to say that I don't fully believe that free will is completely removed from interfacing imaginary AI. Programming machines is one thing (no choice here), while interfacing it is completely different (giving a choice to some extent). When interfacing AI, we can give an explicit command, or we can wrap the communication in a polite wrapper, thus leaving a choice whether to do something in this or that way, or whether to do it at all. The question is then how polite would AI be, to follow blindly our commands, or to have a freedom to be more creative and make its own influence on our ideas of what should be done.

In programming what would AI do next, multiple choices might appear, and they could be sorted by some criteria. Criteria would be a politeness degree we would pass around by a communication. If we give a choice to AI not to do the first thing from the top of the list, AI could optimize a number of demands that come from multiple sources.

In fact, you want to create a slave, not an evolving being. Am I right?
5
New Users Please Post Here / Re: Dreaming
« Last post by Memnon on Today at 05:37:32 pm »
mhmm. Maybe it's not really a competition any more if your theory is sound and round
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General AI Discussion / Re: AI safety
« Last post by ivan.moony on Today at 05:36:50 pm »
I have to say that I don't fully believe that free will is completely removed from interfacing imaginary AI. Programming machines is one thing (no choice here), while interfacing it is completely different (giving a choice to some extent). When interfacing AI, we can give an explicit command, or we can wrap the communication in a polite wrapper, thus leaving a choice whether to do something in this or that way, or whether to do it at all. The question is then how polite would AI be, to follow blindly our commands, or to have a freedom to be more creative and make its own influence on our ideas of what should be done.

In programming what would AI do next, multiple choices might appear, and they could be sorted by some criteria. Criteria would be a politeness degree we would pass around by a communication. If we give a choice to AI not to do the first thing from the top of the list, AI could optimize a number of demands that come from multiple sources.
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General AI Discussion / Re: AI safety
« Last post by WriterOfMinds on Today at 04:16:13 pm »
@Zero: I wouldn't try to remove free will from humans because I actually do think it's a spiritual property. If I were like you and thought that human minds were mere physically deterministic machines, then I suppose I would advocate taking their illusory "free will" away. If human behavior is 100% determined, why not determine it in a positive way? If we're already prisoners of our genetics and environment, why not throw deliberate manipulation into the mix?

I don't see how the ability to "self predict" changes anything. When you predict the consequences of your own actions, you get to decide whether you can tolerate those consequences or not. What drives that decision? In your idea of what the human mind is, isn't the outcome of self-prediction also determined before the fact? Isn't it also a mere product of genetics and environment? I think all you've done by bringing in this idea of self prediction is to move the problem. How will our AI decide which branch of the dilemma it likes better, as it imagines the results of both? Will it flip a coin? Or will it execute some formula based on its programming and past experiences? Neither is free will.

"Now since we have choices, we have free will."

I don't agree.  "If X do Y, else do Z" is the sort of choice an AI can make, and it isn't free will. You can make the logic tree far more complicated than that, you can make it depend on external sensory input, you can make it change over time via learning algorithms, but it's still determined and has an inevitable (albeit unpredictable by any power humans possess) outcome. The AI is therefore no more "at fault" for anything it does than the weather (also a chaotic complex system) is at fault for producing hurricanes.
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General AI Discussion / Re: AI safety
« Last post by Zero on Today at 03:52:08 pm »
If you could remove free will from human mind, would you do it? Why not?
It would solve the jail problem. But that would feel wrong.
Why does it feel wrong?
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General AI Discussion / Re: AI safety
« Last post by Art on Today at 03:02:20 pm »
Posted by: Zero
..."Citizenship looks like a good path because it gives you rights, and it also forces you to interact correctly with other members of the society."

We have jails here in the USA full of people who failed to interact with other members of society. If bots are given free will, what makes you [us] think anything will be different in this regard?

Nothing meant as a flame against your post but rather to point out the possible repercussions of bestowing an A.I. [robot] with choice / Free will.
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New Users Please Post Here / Re: Hello
« Last post by Art on Today at 02:41:22 pm »
Hello Stefano! Welcome to our corner of the A.I. world!

I noticed nothing wrong with your English but if you insist... ;)

We have lots of people from all over the planet so English might not their only language nor their native one.

It's all good and we love having new people join us. O0
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10

Dreaming
by keghn (New Users Please Post Here)
Today at 08:16:33 pm
AI safety
by ivan.moony (General AI Discussion)
Today at 08:11:20 pm
Hello
by Art (New Users Please Post Here)
Today at 02:41:22 pm
Grats to SquareBear
by korrelan (General Chatbots and Software)
September 21, 2017, 10:44:42 pm
Map of Computer Science
by keghn (General AI Discussion)
September 21, 2017, 07:25:21 pm
XKCD Comic : USB Cables
by Tyler (XKCD Comic)
September 21, 2017, 12:01:33 pm
outline from gadient mask
by yotamarker (General AI Discussion)
September 21, 2017, 11:32:35 am
the emergence of AI
by Memnon (Future of AI)
September 21, 2017, 10:37:19 am

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