Ai Dreams Forum

Member's Experiments & Projects => General Project Discussion => Topic started by: LOCKSUIT on October 25, 2016, 11:56:43 pm

Title: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on October 25, 2016, 11:56:43 pm
Let's say with my soon to be new computer that I attempt to make my AI in a VR 3D world in a way that is smaller processing too.

Do I use Blender and python to control the body? Or do I open a compiler, wet my hands, and prepare to make some matrix out of code? I'm guessing that matrix would actually turn out to be Blender, meaning Blender is already a start for me to do this, correct?

I know C++, and Blender. But what will I need to know? Teach me a bit of important things here. Do I use code to control the bones movement etc for example, how, etc. Where does my AI algorithm go...so confused.

In fact tell me everything you would do, such as "then place cameras in the skull's eyesockets and code that in and..."
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: korrelan on October 26, 2016, 12:15:58 am
https://unity3d.com/learn/tutorials/projects/roll-ball-tutorial

 :)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: Freddy on October 26, 2016, 12:27:01 am
Gotta ask; you keep saying you have it all worked out, so why are you asking us what to do ?

You say you know something, then a few lines later ask something basic about it.

Blender is a modelling program but can do animation. It also has a game engine which could be used for a VR world.

Anyway, yep Unity is probably your easiest route into VR. So learn C# or Javascript. And buy a headset of course, probably a developer Occulus Rift one for Unity.

https://unity3d.com/learn/tutorials/topics/virtual-reality/vr-overview?playlist=22946 (https://unity3d.com/learn/tutorials/topics/virtual-reality/vr-overview?playlist=22946)

What kind of world are you going to make ? Are you going to model real world physics from scratch or use what Unity has to offer.

Unity worlds can be fun to make and nice to look at, here's one of mine, made with a terrain generator and some assets I bought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UQYnHjqRbg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UQYnHjqRbg)

And you probably will want to quickly get characters into Unity so here's a tutorial I wrote to get Daz figures into Unity...

http://widdershinsstudio.uk/exporting-daz3d-models-or-characters-into-unity-for-animation/ (http://widdershinsstudio.uk/exporting-daz3d-models-or-characters-into-unity-for-animation/)

In short - to control bones in Unity you rig the character in Unity. You can control the bones in script and you can use morphs (Unity calls these blendshapes) to do things like lip-sync. You can use Blender to make morphs btw, but you know Blender right ?

In fact tell me everything you would do, such as "then place cameras in the skull's eyesockets and code that in and..."

So here we have some honesty then ? You don't know what to do so you want us, who have spent years on this kind of thing, to tell you how to do it all ? Come on dude, make an effort.

I don't mind helping people with my little experiments and techniques, but I prefer people to be more open and honest about what they know because I am not a mind reader. It's better to say you know nothing about some aspect and ask for help rather than say you know it all.

I don't think less of people if I know something they don't and I hope vice versa.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on October 26, 2016, 01:31:56 am
I have only said before that my database holds only all the most important knowledge only. That does not include, or at least for now, how to use a tool like blender, rather only how AI works and why we should all love eachother etc.

I am being honest that this is one area I'm a little confused on, yes, yes - I know about all topics and very fine detail and even all of AI, but some things are not even understood by me, yes, that is possible! Even for such related things to my work I that I do know.

You know, this is very important, and you even know the answers, and that I have said the internet search system is not easy to find answers as my search tree would be - there's no effort for me to attempt I'm lost with Google searching, and that you should definitely tell me these few simple answers. The AIs would. They would.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: kei10 on October 26, 2016, 01:38:17 am
I know C++, and Blender. But what will I need to know? Teach me a bit of important things here. Do I use code to control the bones movement etc for example, how, etc. Where does my AI algorithm go...so confused.

In fact tell me everything you would do, such as "then place cameras in the skull's eyesockets and code that in and..."

I've been seeing quite a bit of impatience.

Rush of attempts to create topics for whatever reason.
Rush of attempts to make us understand your A.I.
Rush of attempts to learn something new at once and think it all can be learned at once.
Rush of attempts to persuade us to work your project.
Rush of attempts to try new things and think it can be finished at once.

Now you're rushing into VR before even... ... ...

Programming requires a bit of experience. It isn't something that can be just poof, and master it in one day. One requires a tons of trial and error to understand the power of programming language, what it can do, and what it can't do. There will be always limits, and bypassing that limit is the hardest criteria as a programmer. It's like solving puzzles.

I've taken 10 years to just make it to C#, all by just starting as a hobby. I haven't even gotten myself a pat in the back because there will be always improvement.

In any case, without that knowledge, it's all futile to tell you "where to put the A.I algorithm". If you've really learned "some" C++, then why don't you show us the best program you've ever programmed? That being said, "some" is not very convincing either way...

...Note aside, you can do what you need to do, provided that you know where to look for, there are information online that helps you to begin, that is, based on what you're capable of now. Don't get yourself over confident, as that won't get you anywhere...

Take a break and reconsider what you're doing, and work your way from the first step instead of leaping around in everyone's heads you find.

Good thing you're not a bunny or I would have grabbed your legs threw you into the bubbling cauldron in the Hogwarts Castle..
Just kidding.  O0
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on October 26, 2016, 01:43:00 am
Gtta eat, b back to read. Also Freddy adding on to the end of my last reply - in the time it took you to write that you could have instead said the answer. Advances are made that way, I already learned the lesson that Google search sucks.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: kei10 on October 26, 2016, 01:48:26 am
Google search sucks?  :2funny:
I've become what I am capable of today all thanks to Google.

Google is love, google is life.
All hail to Google!

 :)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: Freddy on October 26, 2016, 02:00:38 am
Gtta eat, b back to read. Also Freddy adding on to the end of my last reply - in the time it took you to write that you could have instead said the answer. Advances are made that way, I already learned the lesson that Google search sucks.

Haha, yeah I'm sure I could have told you about years of work in a few minutes.

I gave you a starting point, I addressed your questions, what more do you want ? Why are you even bothering if you just want someone else to do it for you ?

What do you get out of it if I told you the answers that you seem to think I have ? Who's advance would that be ?
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: infurl on October 26, 2016, 02:46:21 am
Using Google to fill in the blanks just takes a bit of practice and a lot of patience.

Here's an easy one to get you started. Find out the meaning of:

Quote
ipse se nihil scire id unum sciat
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on October 26, 2016, 02:52:59 am
Kei the search-tree would allow you to 100% certainty find by branches the answers you're looking for. Actually I learned all of c++ in a few days or something like that plus made a English Sheet for later re-learning too. I'm rushing because I have no time to spare.

For example with my AI I can explain it with just a few sentences yes, and less with a picture worth thousands of words. This iterates through all in The Everything - I can prep up a 5 year old to my level in a few months. After all my questions only required simple 4 word answers like "yeah use blender" or "you need python code+blender" or "put cameras in skull" etc.

I..I...I'm a bunny rabbit though kei.

Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on October 26, 2016, 03:07:33 am
Important question - will I be able to use Blender/Unity to have the physics so that when the baby's arm goes forward and/or pushes off the floor it will move forward? Keep in mind the crawl requires the arms to move not push forth and then as the other do the same the front ones stay where there are by friction else it'd look like a athletic swimmer not-going-anywhere.



Peter Parker is an academically brilliant but socially inept boy who is bitten by a genetically modified spider and gains spider-like abilities...

Scientist, engineer, billionaire, founder and owner of Oscorp who tests an unstable strength enhancer on himself and becomes the insane and powerful Green Goblin...

https://www.google.ca/search?q=the+green+goblin&biw=1280&bih=933&site=webhp&tbm=isch&imgil=sy5Bn5-OfpASrM%253A%253BN5OiDP99qn3BnM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.reddit.com%25252Fr%25252FMarvel%25252Fcomments%25252F3qr8an%25252Fmcu_green_goblin_what_are_you_wanting%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=sy5Bn5-OfpASrM%253A%252CN5OiDP99qn3BnM%252C_&usg=__yrCAM1nHhJvkkwdFGjBj1wILdl4%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjfi561sffPAhWpzIMKHSz1B-gQyjcIfg&ei=5w8QWJ_8A6mZjwSs6p_ADg#imgrc=sy5Bn5-OfpASrM%3A (https://www.google.ca/search?q=the+green+goblin&biw=1280&bih=933&site=webhp&tbm=isch&imgil=sy5Bn5-OfpASrM%253A%253BN5OiDP99qn3BnM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.reddit.com%25252Fr%25252FMarvel%25252Fcomments%25252F3qr8an%25252Fmcu_green_goblin_what_are_you_wanting%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=sy5Bn5-OfpASrM%253A%252CN5OiDP99qn3BnM%252C_&usg=__yrCAM1nHhJvkkwdFGjBj1wILdl4%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjfi561sffPAhWpzIMKHSz1B-gQyjcIfg&ei=5w8QWJ_8A6mZjwSs6p_ADg#imgrc=sy5Bn5-OfpASrM%3A)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: Freddy on October 26, 2016, 04:23:33 pm
Learn c# or javascript.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: kei10 on October 26, 2016, 08:21:57 pm
After all my questions only required simple 4 word answers like "yeah use blender" or "you need python code+blender" or "put cameras in skull" etc.
Oh really?

(http://i.memeful.com/media/post/WwlNvvR_700wa_0.gif)

Important question - will I be able to use Blender/Unity to have the physics so that when the baby's arm goes forward and/or pushes off the floor it will move forward?
Collision physics is something that is common today. But to be warned that they are not perfect whatsoever. glitch tends to happen when there are too many bodies is colliding and active at once. Blender supports real-time There are more accurate physics engines and libraries out there, unfortunately they can be extremely hard to setup.

https://www.reddit.com/r/blender/comments/20nzm0/how_physically_accurate_are_blenders_simulation/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/blender/comments/20nzm0/how_physically_accurate_are_blenders_simulation/)

http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/16644/physics-accuracy.html (http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/16644/physics-accuracy.html)

http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/231924/no-100-accurate-physicscollision-handling.html (http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/231924/no-100-accurate-physicscollision-handling.html)

Keep in mind the crawl requires the arms to move not push forth and then as the other do the same the front ones stay where there are by friction else it'd look like a athletic swimmer not-going-anywhere.
This is the type of physics that probably does not exist yet not common yet. Not exactly, but most of these simulations out there are just either approximation, aren't made to be very fast, and even if they exists, they are only made for analytical purposes. We can see them usually found in labs and presentation videos.

Unfortunately no one is really interested in this that much, not much were released into the public, google does not provide much information, or perhaps I am using the wrong words to search.

However, one can program the rigid body dynamics to approximate the swimming dynamics within a static fluid. Even one manages to replicate such "real-time" effects would take ages, a lot of computations, large amount of mathematics, and large codes.

http://www.engr.uky.edu/~acfd/me330-lctrs.pdf (http://www.engr.uky.edu/~acfd/me330-lctrs.pdf)

http://bulletphysics.org/Bullet/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=9439 (http://bulletphysics.org/Bullet/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=9439)

Peter Parker is an academically brilliant but socially inept boy who is bitten by a genetically modified spider and gains spider-like abilities... Scientist, engineer, billionaire, founder and owner of Oscorp who tests an unstable strength enhancer on himself and becomes the insane and powerful Green Goblin...
What does that have to do with this topic...?

Edit: What you're looking for is probably Multiphysics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiphysics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiphysics)

There are tons of libraries for specified for what you're looking for. Some of them are listed in the Wikipedia reference section.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: Freddy on October 26, 2016, 09:24:52 pm
Kei, you could just have said "maybe", that's all he was asking for ;)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: kei10 on October 26, 2016, 09:38:56 pm
(http://i.memeful.com/media/post/oMJ28xM_700wa_0.gif)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: Freddy on October 26, 2016, 09:48:15 pm
He could always try the Unreal Engine. They just shipped a new version. So the answer would be...

"Yeah get UE, do some C++, make AI."

I hope that's not too many words.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: kei10 on October 26, 2016, 09:53:02 pm
They just shipped a new version.
Nice!

Good answer, and then magically his next question will be "how to use C++ in Unreal Engine?". I guarantee it.

Ba dum tss.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: 8pla.net on October 26, 2016, 10:10:27 pm
Python is supported by Blender.   

There used to be a bge (Blender Game Engine) module.

Code: [Select]

import bge

print("Hello from the Blender Game Engine module:", bge)


I don't know if it still works in the new version of Blender.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: Freddy on October 26, 2016, 10:19:52 pm
Yeppers, this has been suggested  O0
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on October 26, 2016, 10:34:35 pm
Yes kei you work so much for me that I don't really know why yous don't just try my AI. Keep it simple, and real. Remember the old days? Now movie and game makers are in it for the $ and just pour them out like rain for children and put metro ads in your face on windows 10. And make you pay 200 for it.

Because I went deep into AI, and just one of the things I have done is figure out how to take the running sticks to a baby crawling on the floor, that was easy - acceleration and it learns to crawl - and yes just like a real baby there is even a mammal one that does it, then, I asked what happens when it reaches the wall, etc, and it'll do what I said in my other thread proposal ~ ex. name, play, crawl house avoiding walls before reaches.

Yes the baby needs to learn to crawl by the physics underneath its tummy, without that, unless it'll work, tit won't get a reward of acceleration by the common crawl actions that would give the reward.

Probably the hardest part would be coding the convolution hash system.

I'It'd begin as a stick bone body wiggling and making phoneme sounds if I don't add the buy-able mesh body.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: Freddy on October 26, 2016, 10:50:11 pm
Yep, you are making our point clear that we don't have any one line solutions for you.

Sorry for pulling your leg, and kudos to you for taking it. But at the end of the day a reality check is needed. It's going to take a long time.

I can give you a look here at another artificial life project that I donated to some five years back...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1508284443/grandroids-real-artificial-life-on-your-pc (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1508284443/grandroids-real-artificial-life-on-your-pc)

Steve originally asked for funding for a year of research. Five years later he is still at it.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: kei10 on October 27, 2016, 12:52:36 am
That kickstarter project looks impressive! ;D

Yes kei you work so much for me that I don't really know why yous don't just try my AI. Keep it simple, and real. Remember the old days? Now movie and game makers are in it for the $ and just pour them out like rain for children and put metro ads in your face on windows 10. And make you pay 200 for it.
Sorry, I don't member. Today is not the old days.
Even that I need to feed myself.

Ironically I'm jobless... But I am busy with my own life while working as a non-profiting cat caretaker.

Because I went deep into AI, and just one of the things I have done is figure out how to take the running sticks to a baby crawling on the floor, that was easy - acceleration and it learns to crawl - and yes just like a real baby there is even a mammal one that does it, then, I asked what happens when it reaches the wall, etc, and it'll do what I said in my other thread proposal ~ ex. name, play, crawl house avoiding walls before reaches.

Yes the baby needs to learn to crawl by the physics underneath its tummy, without that, unless it'll work, tit won't get a reward of acceleration by the common crawl actions that would give the reward.
A.I does not require physics, it only requires dynamic interactable information that has consistency, and/or accuracy.

Think outside the box. If our own world has no consistency, then everything would just blow up. Therefore... ...

Probably the hardest part would be coding the convolution hash system.
Hash-based collections are already existed today's programming language. The only requirement is an override of default GetHash() function to generate the hash from the convolution data. Learn bitwise operations to help constructing a good hash with least collisions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function)

I'It'd begin as a stick bone body wiggling and making phoneme sounds if I don't add the buy-able mesh body.
What?
(http://i.memeful.com/media/post/oMJmG5w_700wa_0.gif)

Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: Freddy on October 27, 2016, 01:21:36 am
I think Locksuit means that he doesn't want this :

(https://cdn2.scratch.mit.edu/get_image/gallery/323977_200x130.png?v=1389466991.0)

But instead wants a 3D avatar body.

Does it have to be a baby Locksuit ?
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: Freddy on October 27, 2016, 01:25:57 am
Quote
That kickstarter project looks impressive!

I don't think many people know (me included) just how much work and detail that project takes. If you are modelling an economy and simple-ish beginning to end journeys then you have a lot of reference material - and a large part of it is common sense. I mean things like the Civilisation and SimCity games.

If you're going for artificial life like Locksuit is and Steve Grand, then there's a lot more to think about. Also you are always going to fall prey to people saying things don't work a certain way - evolution etc. Plenty of disagreements just there.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on October 27, 2016, 01:48:02 am
Ya stick guy (bones). w no mesh bought. I'd start off w that I meant . . .then convolution ......... . . .

M ya it needs the right physics in a 3D world so it finds the actions that push itself and/or it moves itself while its other legs stay by friction.

Any yes, really you ask does it need a human baby body and a 3-DDD real-physics world? Yes, I have the reasons why a "etc in etc that's etc" iphone in 0D that can't move/sense or be in a 3D-world will not work, and yes even if that iphone was in 3D. I'm also trained in all of this important stuff and am deep in how we work, so I know this very well.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: kei10 on October 27, 2016, 02:26:30 am
... *Choir plays in background* ...
... May your English rest in peace...
... Amen...

Oh, you mean stickman?
Why not? It looks fine with just straws attached to a few motors and components to serve as body. (Cylinders and balls in modelling)

Looks way much simpler than to 3D model an ugly baby, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: kei10 on October 27, 2016, 02:45:38 am
I don't think many people know (me included) just how much work and detail that project takes. If you are modelling an economy and simple-ish beginning to end journeys then you have a lot of reference material - and a large part of it is common sense. I mean things like the Civilisation and SimCity games.

If you're going for artificial life like Locksuit is and Steve Grand, then there's a lot more to think about. Also you are always going to fall prey to people saying things don't work a certain way - evolution etc. Plenty of disagreements just there.
Indeed I understand it's not something simple. Well, there's no rush. A greater work requires greater patience. I'll just roll down the steep hill otherwise.

Frankly I have no idea where I am going with my project at first. It appears I'm now focused on trying to learn more about how to create a virtual world, instead of learning to program the A.I. So, I could say my work isn't about artificial life -- yet.

As I understand how our world works by having consistency, the laws of physics and chemistries that operates in conjunction -- Then which means we can shrink our dimension into a point of singularity, and recreate these consistencies. Sequence is what made of the information world.

This consistency requires a bit of work to understand a few Quantum Mechanics. Energy conservation is essential, and there appears to be a lot of stability problems.

In Zero Dimension, there is no space-time, thus there is almost no time involved, and information can be as direct as without the requirement to alter the perspectives. Memory size and processing speed can be ultimately reduced this way if time is optional.

After all, in our own reality, we have moving objects. To serve dynamic recognition, I believe memory usage would be immense. Thus that's the idea behind 0D, the only way to solve the memory usage and processing speed problems. O0
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on October 27, 2016, 03:35:47 am
mm no 0D kei...

Lol

Well, I found that professor that had agreed to meet with my actually pretty unformal writing a year ago when I was only 1 month into AI. I'm sure, with meh new proper writing, impressive proposal, and the nice professor, that it will make for a easy to make meeting lol. Oh god I just jinxed myself what do you think. Now I will become God.

One thing I could do later as said is make a video of that cute baby to-watch* (to convince yous i better draw yous - no sticks - i have learned !) and show on the other side of the screen the new schematic of every thing it does (how). But for now, explaining it with my precious finger and mouth is faster. So that's my first choice. I will use a doll and my laptop, you know, at the meeting. Or even a video (but not video just yet yeah).
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 22, 2017, 01:25:23 pm
@korrelan Question in here for you to answer about your own work.



I should be able to find a o-k 3D physics engine. For starters, I do already have Blender.

I should be able to buy and import a great mesh human baby and attach bones. I do already have one in blender, so if I can import it over, yay.

I should be able to make its fingers rubbery, instead of adding all those nano-grooves. Wait what DO I require? Objects to be non-passable, friction, and? Maybe I don't need not "all" of physics.

I want to add many sensors and motors in its body. I wonder if the bones will act as motors or even pull strings, or must I use real contracting retracting muscles?

Should I make its brain and body nerves not just be code but also be in the physical word like korrelan showed in his video a flythrough render of his AI's brain neural network? How did you do this? Does it have an advantage over just leaving the skull empty and running the brain code?

Lastly I should be able to then, try to learn a little coding to start some stuff off, and control the motors.

Ooooo look! Blender has friction gravity and mesh boundary I guess!:
http://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/26746/how-do-you-stop-the-sliding-of-rigid-body-objects (http://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/26746/how-do-you-stop-the-sliding-of-rigid-body-objects)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 22, 2017, 03:28:48 pm
Read above, I did it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJQX8Y5p1zo&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJQX8Y5p1zo&feature=youtu.be)

Also Blender has ultra-nice water/smoke etc.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: korrelan on March 23, 2017, 11:00:57 am
Quote
Should I make its brain and body nerves not just be code but also be in the physical word like korrelan showed in his video a flythrough render of his AI's brain neural network?

My simulations aren’t in a/ the ‘physical world’ they are in virtual space.  It’s the same principle as blender; you have to be able to design and manipulate the connectome models.  Because my connectome models are 3D by design it makes sense to edit them in 3D; I personally work better with strong visual feedback. 

I have just added a facility for placing labels/ markers at key locations because I keep getting lost whilst working in the connectome.  The models grow to vast sizes (equivalent to 10’s of miles at neuron scales)… it’s wise to take a packed lunch if I’m working in there lol.

Quote
How did you do this?

It’s called Math lol; Trigonometry and Geometry.  I wrote the editor from scratch incorporating the neuromorphic processor at the base level.  It can edit/ simulate any kind of neuron or NN topology in an unlimited virtual space.  I designed in parallel processing and support for any number of cores into the system from the beginning.

It’s one system that can be used to build/ combine/ explore any kind of neural network, recurrent, convolutional, etc with any kind of sensory inputs, audio, visual, tactile, etc. using any type of connectome or neuron model.  I can mix and match, copy, move, merge, etc neural models just like you use blender.

Blender is a 3D object/ scene modelling program; it won’t allow you to model millions of neurons and billions of synapse and the complex interactions/ dynamics between them.

Using a 3D physics engine to test an AGI is a false economy.  You are just adding more variables and uncertainties into the mix; no physics engine is 100% accurate.

Quote
Does it have an advantage over just leaving the skull empty and running the brain code?

I think you are thinking in blender model terms.  As above… my AGI is not in a skull; my AGI doesn't run on the computers… it runs on the wetware, neuromorphic processor simulation that runs on the computers.

I'm simulating biological structures and reactions; there are no heuristic/ binary/ computer/ gate logic equivalents to the processes/ logic I'm using to generate my AGI.

 :)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 23, 2017, 01:22:40 pm
Where is your AI's learning environment then? All you have is a network, there's no 3D world with physics...Where is this going :)

Quote
Blender is a 3D object/ scene modelling program; it won’t allow you to model millions of neurons and billions of synapse and the complex interactions/ dynamics between them.

Blender does a lot actually, how do you know that? Why can't Blender take the resources / or have the functions (even visually like your light-show-network)?
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: korrelan on March 23, 2017, 03:17:51 pm
Quote
Where is your AI's learning environment then?

I use actual microphones, video cameras, torque sensors, accelerometers, gyros, etc (real world sensors) for inputs and displays, speech engine, servos, bot for output. It's learning environment is reality.

Quote
Blender does a lot actually, how do you know that?

I actually know a little about Blender and I’m pretty sure the last time I checked there was no plug-in for a Neuromorphic processor (I could be wrong (doubt it))… but if you think you can use blender to create your AGI then cool.

Quote
Why can't Blender take the resources / or have the functions.

It may be able to map and render the vectors for a few hundred thousand neurons etc, but it wasn’t designed to simulate/ emulate biological neural constructs/ systems.

You could probably design your AGI in python and then use a blender model as a real world physics engine… not sure about complex real time simulations though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLK1Ce2t5I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLK1Ce2t5I)

 :)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 23, 2017, 05:49:23 pm
This is an important message.

Got me there!

Is there an advantage by using a neuromorphic chip? I mean, you store senses/actions, link reference them to connect em.......does it save on code by using connections and gates?. . .I'd think it does the same thing just it's more "hardware-y".

Ohhh I've been looking around a lot, is that blender video showing that Python in Blender allows parallel computation/actions? I'm scared that Python in Blender wants to serial each motor and not allow many simultaneous motors / neural-fires!

I want to propose multiple (nice) checks to you for multiple little progress jobs, you on? In either Blender, or your reality-setup, or other. I'm the kind of guy that will make sure you not only get more money than worked for but also provide extensive ground proof that you'll get the money (which is also backed by "little progress jobs"). After the first (SMALL!) job for like 70 dollars, you WILL be amazed and see the results!! You'll love it! You can use my rigged baby. You're getting more money than usual, for something unimaginable, while have the skills to implement it.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: korrelan on March 23, 2017, 06:39:26 pm
Quote
Is there an advantage by using a neuromorphic chip?

Neuromorphic is a catch all description for biologically inspired/ based systems.  The specification/ operation of a neuromorphic system is subject to the designers ideas/ theories.  No generic neuromorphic chips are commercially currently available.

Quote
I'm scared that Python in Blender wants to serial each motor and not allow many simultaneous motors / neural-fires!

Unless you are using a dedicated multi core computer designed for parallel processing then you are stuck with serial computing.  Parallel programming however is a coding discipline/ schema that simulates parallel processing on a serial computer.

Quote
I want to propose multiple (nice) checks to you for multiple little progress jobs, you on?

Like the rest of the peeps on the forum I’m here to offer advice and help but I’ll have to decline your offer (again lol).

I’m way to busy with my own life and AGI research.

 :)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 23, 2017, 07:45:10 pm
I have the parallel 1060 GPU.........also the Skylake i7.....Blender has a switch button....



Problem 1 before was I wanted to create my AI, but couldn't learn coding (EV3 is easy, PLs are no good), and similarly couldn't even find the installers nor able to install them.

Problem 2 before was I wanted to find programmers and couldn't learn to prove it to them.

Problem 3 before was I wanted to pay programmers but couldn't learn how to trust them, get a English speaking person, get them to make it right, and not lose money, and do the whole thing.

Now I see an opening. On a moderated forum like Blender Artists, I have to find an English speaker, that's not on the "go-go" like on free-lancer sites - someone that's situated on the forum and trustable too, and as for not losing money + making it right + doing the whole thing > I will do little job progresses! Which them alone are amazing!


Quote
my AGI is not in a skull; my AGI doesn't run on the computers… it runs on the wetware, neuromorphic processor simulation that runs on the computers.
I think you mean:

run software simulation/real-thing-hardware on computer neuromorphic processor.

The chip is the brain, and if it's not, then it's simulation. Even if it's hardware, some small functions can be 2D/1D simulation and then complete the hardware brain's functions back on the chip in reality.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: korrelan on March 23, 2017, 10:28:36 pm
If this is the path you have elected to follow then I would suggest, (as others have on this thread) that you import your Blender models into Unity; and use that as the main simulation engine.

Blender was designed primarily for rendering high quality scenes.

Unity is a game engine and has been designed to run the physics you require in real world, real time simulations.

 :)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: Freddy on March 24, 2017, 12:14:57 am
There is a Blender game engine, but it used to be unloved and I think it was nearly dropped. Might be worth looking into to see if there is any movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blender_Game_Engine
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 24, 2017, 03:21:57 am
I'm gonna pay.....but gotta find the engine now.....Unity costs iey iey

I must think what I need......I need good enough speed, parallelism, resources handled, o-k physics, (for now to make a AI with CNNs etc, just not necessarily the full thing, just enough to show it once done).

Here's someone's Blender:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJaI2bnaq9Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJaI2bnaq9Q)

a good one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgaEE27nsQw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgaEE27nsQw)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: korrelan on March 24, 2017, 08:07:52 am
Don’t forget there are other options. 

Bots like this can easily be controlled by a cheap Arduino and easily networked to a larger computer/ cluster.  Video cameras, microphones can be added as required, etc.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1set-17DOF-Biped-Robotic-Educational-Robot-Kit-Servo-Bracket-Ball-Bearing-Black-W-Servo-Horns-For/1531636741.html?source=%7Bifdyn:dyn%7D%7Bifpla:pla%7D%7Bifdbm:DBM&albch=DID%7D&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&isdl=y&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&albcp=658432934&albag=36001185289&slnk=&trgt=66391061561&plac=&crea=en1531636741&netw=g&device=c&mtctp=&gclid=CJvW2frR7tICFcUy0wodXKcCqA (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1set-17DOF-Biped-Robotic-Educational-Robot-Kit-Servo-Bracket-Ball-Bearing-Black-W-Servo-Horns-For/1531636741.html?source=%7Bifdyn:dyn%7D%7Bifpla:pla%7D%7Bifdbm:DBM&albch=DID%7D&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&isdl=y&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&albcp=658432934&albag=36001185289&slnk=&trgt=66391061561&plac=&crea=en1531636741&netw=g&device=c&mtctp=&gclid=CJvW2frR7tICFcUy0wodXKcCqA)

Another option is to buy a 3D printer and build your own from pre-designed plans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjkzgRQHT34 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjkzgRQHT34)

or even…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4Z09edx52E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4Z09edx52E)

Again... they can use a simple Arduino servo interface.

If you’re going to find someone to code your AGI and take this path; you need to make sure they are proficient in this type of project.

 :)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 24, 2017, 03:31:25 pm
Mine needs at least 20 somotosensory receptors though, humanoid baby body, good eye/s, hear, accelometer, voicebox. VR is way better if you don't yet have a enterprise corp. team working on it.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 24, 2017, 10:14:17 pm
@korrelan korrelan

Ok this is crucial, I need to know, of my 3D engine options, the things I'm picking for.



Do all 3D engines allow infinite/lots of resources so long as you have the processing/storage power? I could get so far and not be able to add any more parallel motion/mesh/operations.

Could some be missing operations I need? Ex. motors, nerve vectoring, etc.

Could some be way too slow?

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP I need to know which engine I must go with, this is the time to help bigtime, this is all I need now. I'm gonna hire. I don't need any more $/AI/convincing-programmers. Just the baby - the engine. Start the engine, will you?
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: kei10 on March 25, 2017, 12:31:17 am
Do all 3D engines allow infinite/lots of resources so long as you have the processing/storage power? I could get so far and not be able to add any more parallel motion/mesh/operations.

Could some be missing operations I need? Ex. motors, nerve vectoring, etc.

You could do all of that if you know what you're doing. However, your computer isn't a super computer. When it comes to that, your normal computer, of course, will have limits of what it is capable of. Infinite/lots of resources isn't going to happen, and you'll get to a point where you won't able to add anymore parallel motion/mesh/operations.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 25, 2017, 12:58:25 am
Yes but the thing I'm creating is going to be limited enough that it definitely will run on my computer / GPU/i7.

I need anyone/korrelan to help answer.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: korrelan on March 25, 2017, 11:23:58 am
Kei10 is correct.

When it comes to running huge complex simulations you will soon hit the limits of using one computer.  That’s why I built my own cluster; no computer system has infinite resources.
 
My personal cluster comprises of six quad core over clocked CPU’s; with another six quads available when I really need the extra poke. You need specialised software to enable all the machines to run in parallel; they all have to work in perfect unison all the time.  You will require a master terminal that controls the flagging and load balancing of the separate CPU’s in real time… the list goes on.

You also have to consider access speeds and the like; just because I have 30TB of storage doesn’t mean I can access it all in an instant; these computers are still serial devices emulating a parallel system.

Quote
Yes but the thing I'm creating is going to be limited enough that it definitely will run on my computer / GPU/i7.

I would like to know how you are so sure before you have even started coding the AGI; you will be surprised at how quickly you will hit the limitations of an i7 rig.

Regarding the best game engine to use; I suggested Unity because I have seen projects that run along similar lines to what you require. It’s up to you to research the best engine for your requirements; I’m just saying consider Unity.

I’m not trying to dissuade you but what you are considering if going to be fraught with problems.  I see your lack of programming knowledge/ limitations/ techniques being a major bugbear.  You will request routines like…I need a bit that can save all the images it sees, access them all with a CNN and return matches.

Just impossible… consider that a PC can’t even search an image file in parallel; what ever method you use has to go through the image one bit/ byte at a time.  This is why the likes of ‘Google’ employ actual huge parallel super computers. 

I have a lot of experience writing bespoke software for various client/ corporates and I’ve said this before… you need a much, much better knowledge of how your idea is going to function at the program level.  You will have to specify the techniques/ algorithms/ system topology/ etc… you can’t just expect a programmer to be able to produce what you require from a vague idea.  Even utilising a CNN for what ever purpose you require will be a problem; even if the coder understands the algorithms there a literally thousands of types, schemas, techniques and methods of application to consider/ code/ bug test/ etc… ‘you’ not the coder will have to specify its design, usage, parameters, etc.

It’s because you have limited programming/ development experience that you are failing to see problems/ limitations you are facing.

The chasm between a basic theory and building a working system is vast.

 :)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 25, 2017, 03:38:00 pm
My AI is really really efficient.

I'm not talking about that thread called How To Generate A Brain which explains why simulation won't be so big.

I'm talking about this - images are the cancer, saving them all every moment and trying to search them is the nightmare.

That causes torture to the storage device's capacity, computation speed, and storage access time.

Guess what my AI does though.

Most of the images it saves are forgotten quickly. The ones that strengthen enough to last will be only a few. Any images that are similar only update the saved to something nearer to its center.

On top of that my AI only needs to run for a short time to show it off. So that's few images, and few images in that short time.

It only saves 4 sensory images per second not 60. Cameras already capture motion blur.

On top of that, the first parts of my AI don't even require images in fact I can skip them a bit. And these first parts will be amazing.

I'm even going to run a evolutionary algorithm of em.

I'm thinking engine concerns are storage use ex. blocks usage, computation/storage access speed, crashing, missing ex. somotosensory receptors, parallelism. I only remember Blender slowing/crashing when I had a older computer.

I would think that any program, having large storage ex. 500TBs, should run even if it was slow as a turtle without crashing by saving memory in storage it gotta da storage right...that covers ALL of the above except for ex. missing somotosensory receptors.

I can see if Blender has tools to be somotosensory receptors.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 26, 2017, 05:07:37 pm
Korrelan come on you gotta know this... (maybe he wants to create AGI before I do hehe)

Long-term Engine needs/wants:

- Speed of the code/etc if big difference
- parallelism
- somatosensory pressure/temperature receptors and other functions/tools/operations
- physics

- renders the best, technically not needed, but seriously desired
- closer to Blender so I couldddd use it, not needed

I'm thinking about UE4. But that still needs a modelling program...
Use Blender.

Any program should allow tones of processor/storage else be slow and freeze. I'll have enough storage and access/compute time otherwise bear the slowness or have to upgrade (unless they film it on their pc).
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 26, 2017, 09:41:29 pm
Here's what I came up with from my above questions.

If I'm gonna pay someone 1,200 and up it already is at, then it better be the best physics this guy uses.

So, either Unreal Engine 4 or Source 2...and the modelling program as Blender. This covers those other needs/wants. Reason I HAD didn't want to switch is because Blender's render (Cycles). . .

I think I'm getting somewhere.....................

But what about unity physics vs unreal engine 4 physics?

Downloading both.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 27, 2017, 06:30:49 am
Downloaded Unreal Engine 4.

Unity sucks. Not looking there.

UE4 has better physics.

UE4 has better render.

UE4 has BLUEPRINT blocks THIS IS LIKE EV3 THAT ROBOT I MADE JUST HAS MOST OF C++ FUNCTIONALITY NOW OOOHHHHHH MY GODDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!

HE'S USING IT! HE'S USING IT!!!!
http://advancessss.deviantart.com/art/5768787887-671325557?ga_submit_new=10%3A1490592637 (http://advancessss.deviantart.com/art/5768787887-671325557?ga_submit_new=10%3A1490592637)

.........................My eyes are falling out.... This is so juicy !
https://forums.unrealengine.com/forumdisplay.php?76-Job-Offerings (https://forums.unrealengine.com/forumdisplay.php?76-Job-Offerings)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 30, 2017, 12:26:46 am
Well look what I found.

http://advancessss.deviantart.com/art/898989999-671806090?ga_submit_new=10%3A1490829900 (http://advancessss.deviantart.com/art/898989999-671806090?ga_submit_new=10%3A1490829900)

I'm in control
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: Freddy on March 30, 2017, 01:12:18 am
Sounds like you are having fun there Locksuit  ;D

I'm glad you started to get your hands dirty. Theory is one thing, but the real fun starts when you begin to create stuff.

BTW Unity does not suck, you just have to pick the tools that suit you. UE4 does have some pretty impressive graphics though, I've thought about giving it a go, but there's no time to do everything.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 02, 2017, 09:49:37 pm
I've neared my choices down to this.

Physics Engine is priority 1.
Community priority 2.
Brain's computation done on GPU priority 3.
Render Engine priority 4.



Problem is I still don't know which physics.

>>> Havok, PhysX, or Bullet?

Havok has Havok.
Unreal Engine 4 and Unity and Euphia have PhysX.
Blender has Bullet.

And NASA and Deep Learning using Blender is messing with my mind.....
http://bulletphysics.org/wordpress/ (http://bulletphysics.org/wordpress/)
NIGHTMAREEEEEEEEE
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 03, 2017, 05:21:52 am
Bye Havok, you have no community.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 03, 2017, 08:06:26 am
Wow look at this game created in Unreal Engine 4!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugUJkiD_xPU&t=0s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugUJkiD_xPU&t=0s)



NO........NO...................IS THIS FOR UE4'S PHYSX!?

https://developer.nvidia.com/content/new-flex-features (https://developer.nvidia.com/content/new-flex-features)

https://developer.nvidia.com/flex (https://developer.nvidia.com/flex)



..........gonna be a long road
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPayi38vQws (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPayi38vQws)



wah..............................CHEESY PIZZA!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZeo-4lqgU0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZeo-4lqgU0)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 03, 2017, 10:15:31 pm
Ah I have just the way to find the champion Engine.

Hire time.

If ey can  !  waaaaht! the....
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 04, 2017, 12:53:09 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoXC5nhQ6dI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoXC5nhQ6dI)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 04, 2017, 01:49:53 am
Learning about their pre-installed reflexes.

Also eye stuff:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0042698909003691 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0042698909003691)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 07, 2017, 09:30:57 am
Do yous think I should start a Kickstarter crowdfund?

Is that even a legal move for me to do?

I think it is...I would show them what the applicant created so far, and then more funding pours in?



..............................

OMG OMG OMG OMG

I CAN'T CONTROL MY SELF IM GETTING NECKSNAP TICKS DARN IT

THIS IS GONNA WORK



Just look at this one, it's not even close to what I plan on creating.......spec falls off ,
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/181239886/jaesa?ref=category (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/181239886/jaesa?ref=category)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 08, 2017, 07:14:47 am
Here's my master plan:

AI is a network OF mini networks. The World Wide Web is the 3rd network we created and improve.

We all have the actions to create AI today. But you need to know which actions (how to code, how AI works, where to get money).

I will orchestrate EVERYTHING.

Through the 3rd Network:
I wil get programmers that have the Learned Actions.
I will Tell them how AI works to direct those Actions to target Actions.
I will crowdfund $ to give to them to Reward those Ations.

I'm going to start starting Kickstarter and Longecity campaigns. My mom is going to post flyers and bring a money-box around the family and all her friends! School kids! Job boss! Etc! And all of these peoples's social-NETWORKINGS!

And I'm the igniting neuron ! It's all linked in place, ready to take action!

Better get your shoes on, Ray.

It's showtime!

Lol
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: korrelan on April 08, 2017, 03:37:09 pm
Exposing us to your theories is one thing… telling the world/ your friends/ family is another… my conscience is making me write this… don’t do it… lol.

 :)
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 08, 2017, 11:57:10 pm
It, is, time !

"Egyptian music"
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: Art on April 09, 2017, 01:52:11 pm
Lock,

Crowdfunding is usually approached when someone has a working prototype / model of their product.

Doing that just to raise money for some intangible product is not only hopeless but also in very bad taste.

Of course, you are free to try any method you wish but this one is not going to bring you anything but disappointment.
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 10, 2017, 08:16:25 am
Your right, I think many (all?) of the campaigns have some sort of background project happen-in...

I do have a lot to show, though.

I am concerned about doing the Kickstarter for many reasons, but also eyeing it strongly and see full-proof reasons why it would work.

I could start Kickstarter after I hire for a little bit and show a better prototype than even that Lego robot.



I decided I'm not going to do Kickstarter right now, even though I read all of Kickstarter, scoped the site, and wrote down everything to do/know.



But guess what me an my mom ARE going to do !

MONEY BOX TIME

I'll let yous know how much money I get!
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 11, 2017, 05:46:13 am
My mom was calling around for me, and called the bank, and my mom told me they said yaa yaaa blahblahblah and that we can go to all the banks around town and I'm going to talk to the manager and get charity money (or their own money?).
Title: Re: Way before I attempt VR let me ask some questions.
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 12, 2017, 04:39:13 pm
I kept playing from 7:07, I love how she starts crying lol, my new alarm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoXC5nhQ6dI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoXC5nhQ6dI)