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AI Dreams => General Chat => XKCD Comic => Topic started by: Tyler on February 03, 2018, 12:00:17 pm

Title: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: Tyler on February 03, 2018, 12:00:17 pm
Chicken Pox and Name Statistics (https://xkcd.com/1950/)
2 February 2018, 5:00 am

(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/chicken_pox_and_name_statistics.png)

Source: xkcd.com (https://xkcd.com/)

Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: korrelan on February 03, 2018, 06:43:55 pm
But... but...

I'm pretty sure if you cross referenced the data against who's parents were vegetarians (Sarah's & Brian's)...

The answer would become apparent.. greens are bad for you...

 :)
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: Art on February 04, 2018, 03:16:17 pm
Did you know that the word, "Vegetarian" is old Indian word for "Bad Hunter". :2funny:
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: WriterOfMinds on February 05, 2018, 07:23:54 pm
Did you know that joke is old, tired, and completely unfunny?

Mocking people who display altruistic behavior = not cool.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: korrelan on February 06, 2018, 10:41:32 am
@Art

lol… the old ones are the good ones.

@Wom

Humour is a topic of study for me at the moment, I think it gives vast insights in to the inner workings of the brain.

It is interesting how something simple like adopting a belief/ life style/ diet can affect a person’s sense of humour, or even just their ability to accept/ allow someone else’s humour… it’s a very complex topic.

 :)
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: Art on February 06, 2018, 03:52:18 pm
It is also amazing how a simple joke or pun can upset people. There was no disrespect intended toward anyone.

I strongly dislike Politically or Religiously projected opinions/views but humor is as old as a slip on a banana peel, yet a lot of us still chuckle.
While there is no urgency nor requirement to laugh, it is part of what makes us human.

Sorry if my old, tired, and completely unfunny, wait...have you been talking to my wife?  ;)

On a serious note, I happen to be a very Altruistic person. I have unselfishly given of myself, my time, energy and talents to other, often less fortunate people, as well as friends and families throughout my life for over 50 years. You do not know me. Therefore do not judge me by my posting of one funny-to-most, line of text.

Thank you.



Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: WriterOfMinds on February 06, 2018, 04:13:11 pm
I didn't judge you, Art ... I judged your "joke." I think I'm allowed to do that.

Dietary choices are literally a matter of life and death for animals, and therefore not something to laugh or tease about.  The fact that many people would find that joke funny is just an indication of how callous society is toward the suffering and loss experienced by animals in a human-dominated world.  These are issues that cause me genuine grief, therefore I'll thank you not to laugh at my grief by using them as humor fuel.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: Art on February 06, 2018, 07:38:54 pm
Your point is taken WOM but on the same hand, how are any of us to know what might be a sore spot or offensive area with you or anyone? It's not like we go around broadcasting our position or wearing a sign that says, I don't laugh at jokes that are about my car, food, kids, pet frog, religion, cattle, politics or any other thing I find troublesome. If that were the case, there would be a lot of comedians out of work and any attempt at humor would be outlawed for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

Yes, I do see your issue but in the same breath, please take a moment of tolerance to understand mine and others who try to inject a bit of humor into this already politically correct saturated and troubled world.  While I also understand that this forum is not a stage for satire, I offer my humble apology if I caused you any grief as it was certainly not my intention.

Please enjoy the remainder of your day.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: WriterOfMinds on February 06, 2018, 08:03:54 pm
@Art: the only concession I really want is that you will understand why your joke might be an issue, and not make the same sort of joke again. I am not interested in blaming you, just educating you.

Whether you intended this or not, the joke communicates that people who make the compassionate and selfless decision to abstain from meat are silly for doing so. Such communication discourages lifesaving, positive behaviors that would be a net benefit for society. That's a practical problem, not just something that offends.  I hope you can understand that, and also understand that what happens in a slaughterhouse, or when a hunter locates his quarry in the woods, isn't something that anyone should find amusing.  The animals certainly aren't amused.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: Zero on February 06, 2018, 08:58:43 pm
EDIT: self-censorship

-1
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: Freddy on February 06, 2018, 08:59:34 pm
Just my 2 pennies...

The context of the joke revolved around an old Indian hunter. It did not make me want to go out and kill animals unnecessarily.

Nor does it make me feel negative about vegetarians (I was one for a few years) or similar life styles. In fact that entire modern day ethos never entered my mind.

The butt of the joke was the Indian hunter; who lived at a time when I doubt he had much option to do otherwise in order to stay alive. He failed - and so ended up eating his greens.

Let's just chill people, this is escalating way too much for what it is.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: ivan.moony on February 06, 2018, 09:28:41 pm
WriterOfMinds, let go.

The day will come, but not today. Maybe our grandchildren would be smart enough to understand the pain. These days... all of this horror (http://www.care2.com/news/member/525884267/956889) is still a joke to some of us. Please forgive us and stick around.

Here (http://www.memphismeats.com/) and here (https://www.supermeat.com/) is something to cheer you up. It already started.  :)
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: korrelan on February 06, 2018, 11:49:43 pm
I apologise to Art, I started this joke and unfortunately you took the brunt of the fallout.

I’m opposed to any group or individual trying to impose their personal belief system or morel judgements on any another person/ party… period.

We are supposed to be intelligent adults, part of that premises is having the wisdom to accept that your peers might not have your personal beliefs; this is a public AI forum, not a personal morel vindication outlet.

I’m personally offended by anyone who presumes they have the morel high ground and audacity to ‘educate me’ on what I’m allowed to think/ write… or laugh at... what gives you the right?

Ok someone was ‘triggered’/ offended… that doesn't make them right.

Peace people… it was just a joke...

 :)
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: WriterOfMinds on February 07, 2018, 12:18:26 am
Quote
I’m opposed to any group or individual trying to impose their personal belief system or morel judgements on any another person/ party… period.

So you're against carnism, then? People impose their personal beliefs and moral systems on animals every time they eat one. And as impositions go, being killed for consumption is quite a bit worse than simply being scolded, *I* think.  You ask what gives me the right to reprimand Art, but you don't ask what gives him the right to make light of vegetarianism in the first place. The irony here is very deep.

Yes, it was just a joke. Just a rude and potentially harmful joke. I tried to explain to Art why I found it rude and potentially harmful -- that is all I meant by "educate." And I thought I was fairly nice about it. I will re-emphasize that I am not mad at Art, I do not blame him, and I do not think he meant to be rude. He noted that people don't wear signs to indicate what bothers them ... well, this is me hanging out my sign. I let him know that something upset me instead of hiding it.  If some of you don't care whether your jokes are upsetting or rude, then I guess that is on you.

Humor is nice and all, but I do not believe it is sacrosanct, or that anything-and-everything is justified as long as you say it to be funny. There are such things as inappropriate jokes. Saying that no one is allowed to complain about a bad joke is about as ridiculous as saying that no one is allowed to joke, don't you think? While no one is obligated to agree with me about dietary issues, isn't part of being an intelligent adult the ability to disagree without mockery and insults? I have trouble seeing that joke as anything but mockery of vegetarians.

I didn't want to cause a huge ruckus over this, and Freddy I'm sorry if I contributed in any way to giving you a bad day. But there are serious issues behind this little spat, even if it seems trivial, and I can't apologize for defending animals or the people who care about them.

Thanks, bye.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: Freddy on February 07, 2018, 12:53:07 am
WriterOf Minds,

You didn't spoil my day. In my post I was just trying to explain the way I interpreted the joke, which is clearly different to the way you did. I can see your reasons and respect them - I now see why it caused you issues due to how you identified with it. Perhaps if I was still a vegetarian I would have reacted the same. My point though was that the joke itself doesn't necessarily read as a slur on vegetarians. It's open to interpretation.

As happens on forums, we don't have the benefit of seeing social cues and all the things we were to see if we were having dinner together or something (with a veggy option of course). As admin I've learnt to douse the flames from time to time for those reasons, which is what I tried to do here.

At the end of the day, however contrary things may seem to us, we at least learn something about each other or some subject, so it's not all bad. I had never heard of carnism by the way...
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: ivan.moony on February 07, 2018, 01:36:18 am
I think she is gone... Hell of a job, people...  :(

Wait... Are we allowed to make racist jokes too, then?
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: WriterOfMinds on February 07, 2018, 02:07:14 am
Nah, I'm not leaving the forum.  I just said "bye" because I wanted to get out of this thread and start concentrating on work.  You're fine.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: Freddy on February 07, 2018, 03:29:16 am
Glad you are staying :)

No Ivan, certainly no racist jokes here thank you !
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: Zero on February 07, 2018, 08:53:55 am
 :Lust_by_Zikes: :hert:
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: ranch vermin on February 07, 2018, 10:41:43 am
how come i seem to be amazingly looking when i pull my eyes squinty...
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: ivan.moony on February 11, 2018, 12:27:11 am
Ok then, I can see someone may find him/herself insulted by my honest observations.  As I feel I'm representing minority here, I feel I should retreat. Maybe it's me, not you. Maybe I shouldn't take a side this time again. I've been quiet so many times, so why not once again?

You know, we may think of ourselves in a most positive way, but in the moment we put a chicken in our plate, we lose a right to make fun of it. Compare it to a killer who thinks he deserves to have a right to make fun of his victims. It is a very rude, insensitive and ignorant attitude that might offend someone with more expressed character.

But what do I know, maybe we really shouldn't stand up for poor. Maybe we should encourage behavior in which those that stand up for poor are laughed out at loud. Moreover, those who stand up for poor are asked to apologize to others for playing heroes. Now, who is a poor here, an animal kept imprisoned for a whole life, just to be murdered to end up at our dish, or a human being that does so much good things to other, equally innocent human beings? Tell me, because I want to know, which side should I pick, and to whom should I apologize, and for what when I pick a side?

Yes, I can hear, I represent an odd minority. Well, maybe I don't want to be a part of that bigger group. And also, as I don't like to impose what attitudes others should practice, I guess I lose this fight, now and forever, because that is what I do in life, I lose. Keep kicking, you can't hear me.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: infurl on February 11, 2018, 05:19:42 am
I am deeply offended by people getting offended.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: korrelan on February 11, 2018, 11:44:44 am
You’re missing the point Ivan…this is an AI forum.

There is no side to take on this forum, most users aren't here to be force fed/ preached to by a minority with no boundaries; that feel they are entitled to say whatever they feel is true, just because they require validation, have a personal belief/ agenda and captive audience.

This forum is not the place for this type of debate.  In the interest of keeping a mutually beneficial atmosphere these types of topics should be avoided.

 :)
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: ivan.moony on February 11, 2018, 12:54:14 pm
You're right.

I think I need a little break.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: WriterOfMinds on February 12, 2018, 04:34:04 pm
You're right, korrelan, this whole discussion has been very off-topic. Thing is, Ivan and I didn't start it.

If you guys have the right to make jokes that I consider offensive in a public forum, then I have the right to disapprove in that same public forum.  If you guys have the right to promote carnism by laughing at vegetarians, then I have the right to counter that.  This is not your personal moral platform either.  And if somebody says something that I perceive as an insult, surely I'm allowed to respond.  Turnabout is fair play.

You will note that I have not asked for any sort of censorship or punishment to be levied against Art or against the original joke post. I am merely exercising my own right to free speech, which I have to the same extent that you do. Please respect that.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: korrelan on February 12, 2018, 05:49:28 pm
Quote
Thing is, Ivan and I didn't start it.

No, Ivan didn't start this.

Quote
Did you know that joke is old, tired, and completely unfunny?
Mocking people who display altruistic behavior = not cool.

Quote
If you guys have the right to make jokes that I consider offensive in a public forum.

There’s the problem… the words public and ‘I’ in the same sentence…

Quote
then I have the right to disapprove in that same public forum

And again…

Quote
If you guys

Tut.. tut…

Quote
promote carnism by laughing at vegetarians

The joke was a not against vegetarians… it was about an old Indian word.

Quote
And if somebody says something that I perceive as an insult, surely I'm allowed to respond.

Public form… respect/ leniency for your peers.

Quote
Turnabout is fair play.

There should be no ‘turn around’, we are all equal.

Quote
You will note that I have not asked for any sort of censorship or punishment to be levied against Art or against the original joke post.

No, this whole thread doesn't really exist.

Ok I get it… you’re a vegetarian, you have had your ten seconds of personal validation, now we all know… you have educated and scolded your peers.  Someone being constantly offended doesn't mean there’re right; it just means they’re too narcissistic to tolerate opinions different than theirs.

I have as much of an interest in your personal beliefs as you have in mine… I really just don’t care about your diet choices; I do care about your insights/ opinions regarding the forums main topic though.

As a society we should all know what topics are generally/ globally taboo.  We have no way of knowing individuals private foibles… nor should we need to.

What do you suggest we do?

Make a list of topics we each feel ‘sensitive’ about, then collectively ‘scold/ educate’ anyone who deviates into those topic areas… after all this is public forum and are we not all equals? If one person is allowed to preach then surely we all are.

Or…

Exercise some adult wisdom, avoid all personally related topics/ beliefs and stick to the premise of the forum. Show a little respect/ leniency for our fellow peers and accept no one is perfect; we are all equals and no one person has the right to ‘scold/ educate’ anyone else.

I personally choose the latter.

 :)

Ed: Notice I'm not educating or scolding anyone because I'm an omnivore… I respect your beliefs/ views… you are entitled to them.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: WriterOfMinds on February 12, 2018, 07:09:32 pm
Quote
Exercise some adult wisdom, avoid all personally related topics/ beliefs and stick to the premise of the forum.

So you will no longer make jokes that imply vegetarians are incompetent, then? Cool. That is all I wanted.

Ed: You want respect? Dude. That joke was disrespectful. That is what I have been trying to say all along. Don't I deserve respect too? And by the way, you are currently scolding and educating me ... you are telling me why you think it's bad that I objected to the joke, and trying to persuade me not to do so ever again ...
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: keghn on February 12, 2018, 08:26:26 pm
 I like you and accept you as you are. For any minor fault i will back up. Even for Ranch, Locksuit, Korrelan, Art, and Zero.
 For the other regulars i will not give them the time of day.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: korrelan on February 12, 2018, 10:10:13 pm
Quote
So you will no longer make jokes that imply vegetarians are incompetent, then?

Yes I will, if the occasion arises…
 
Would you prefer a joke that implies vegetarians are good hunters?

Let’s swap some words around to make it easier…

Did you know that the word, "carnivore" is old Indian word for "Bad Gardener".

OMG! I’m soooo offended.

Quote
Cool. That is all I wanted.

There’s that ‘I’ again.  I suppose all is well so long as ‘you’ got what ‘you’ wanted, eh?

Quote
You want respect? Dude.

No I don’t.  I just expect to be treated equally, with mutual respect, or should I take a leaf out of your book and scold you for using the word ‘vegetarianism’ in my presence.

Quote
That joke was disrespectful.

Your attitude and illusion of self superiority is disrespectful to your fellow peers.  The fact that you think yourself ‘altruistic’ just because you choose to eat vegetables and that this somehow gives you the right to scold your peers with differing opinions. The joke was not disrespectful; you found it so… it’s a matter of opinion… not fact.

Quote
And by the way, you are currently scolding and educating me ...

No… I’m just pointing out the obvious and shouldn’t need to, pointing out what everyone else already understands… no one person deserves special treatment or consideration just because they demand it.  Do as I demand or I will educate you… pfft. 

Quote
you are telling me why you think it's bad that I objected to the joke

You blatantly expressed your disgust/ view/ opinion of people/ societies who consume meat.  I am a member of that group… should I treat you the same way? Do you want my true opinions on vegetarians? You really, really won’t like it.

Quote
and trying to persuade me not to do so ever again ...

You started this, you are trying to impede/ suppress everyone else’s rights/ views/ opinions.  You are trying to impose/ persuade us what not to do… you are actually stating what we are allowed to find amusing whilst in your company.

Again… it was just a joke.

 :)
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: ivan.moony on February 12, 2018, 10:52:33 pm
I guess this is too progressive for us to practice.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: WriterOfMinds on February 13, 2018, 02:10:01 am
Hm, okay ... so the issue, korrelan, is that you think I'm asking for *special* treatment? That wasn't my intention. I'm asking not to be casually mocked. I'm asking people not to insult me by implying that I only follow my lifestyle because I'm too clumsy to have other options. And I'm asking people not to treat things that cause me (and Ivan, it seems) pain as laughing matters. Those are graces that I want to extend to anyone else here, and I *thought* those were graces that were part of normal polite human interaction. We all make mistakes with humor sometimes -- it's a tricky thing -- but if you learn that a joke was hurtful, if you learn that you were laughing *at* rather than laughing *with* someone, I thought that saying "sorry" and choosing not to make such a joke again was generally the right thing to do. As far as I can tell, I'm not requesting anything beyond common courtesy. My particular reasons for finding this particular joke off-putting are somewhat rare, but I don't see how that's relevant.

Apparently "educate" is a condescending word, and I regret using it ... I was, again, just signaling that I was upset, and explaining the potential negative ramifications of a joke like this, IN MY OPINION, which I have the right to express. I know that Art made the joke in ignorance, not realizing I would be upset ... so I told him. Perhaps, now that he knows, he won't repeat the joke. Again, I think it would be common courtesy if he chose not to repeat it.

I don't believe I ever claimed that meat-eaters were disgusting, or anything of the kind -- and see, I *don't* go around teasing them by saying that they're all just bad gardeners. I said it was callous to treat animal death and some people's averse responses thereto as fodder for jokes, but that's as far as I went. And I did dare to claim that a plant-based diet is altruistic/beneficial, but arguing *for* something is not the same thing as smearing anyone who doesn't follow it. If you take it as disrespect when someone praises or defends a lifestyle that you currently don't practice, you're more sensitive than I am.

Your idea of "equal treatment" seems to be, "Art and I get to mock you, but you don't get to tell us that you feel mocked, or otherwise stand up for yourself." And apparently my impressions of what is disrespectful are "opinion," but your impressions are "the obvious" and "what everyone else already understands." Are some people more equal than others here?

Quote
Quote
So you will no longer make jokes that imply vegetarians are incompetent, then?
Yes I will, if the occasion arises…

But there it is ... I'm having doubts that you are actually interested in mutual respect.  All is well as long as 'you' get what 'you' want, and what you want is to make jokes, regardless of whether they can come across as rude or demeaning.  If you really do think that it's okay to insult vegetarians, then I don't think I have anything more to say to you.
Title: Re: XKCD Comic : Chicken Pox and Name Statistics
Post by: korrelan on February 13, 2018, 08:15:59 am
Apology accepted.

 :)