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AI Dreams => General Chat => Topic started by: LOCKSUIT on March 29, 2018, 04:52:25 am

Title: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 29, 2018, 04:52:25 am
I started 2015 August. I am 22.7 years old as of now.

Before that I thought AI was a joke and just a movie concept. I thought I was a magic spirit.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: infurl on March 29, 2018, 05:31:51 am
I wanted to build an intelligent robot ever since I saw "First Spaceship on Venus" and immediately started learning about electronics and mechanics. I was building simple robots and electronics from around grade school onwards, and digital electronics and control systems by the time I reached high school. I didn't start working on artificial intelligence itself until I had the components to build my first computer in college.

That computer was based on an 8-bit micro-controller with 4k of memory. I soldered the parts on to strip board and I wrote my own operating system for it in machine code because I didn't like the commercially available software. The first application program that I wrote used the same algorithm as CleverBot, but with so little storage available it wasn't very satisfactory.

Soon after that I was formally studying computer science and artificial intelligence at university, but even with the whopping two megabytes of memory in the university's mainframe there wasn't a lot we could accomplish. I wrote a lisp interpreter and lots of toy software and learned all the theory, but along with the rest of the world, I lost interest for a while during what's called the AI Winter.

It wasn't until I could afford to put what would have previously been regarded as a supercomputer on my desk that I got really serious again, and I've devoted every available minute to the task since then. It helps having access to the internet and so much information. I think it would be pointless without the internet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owh3MFn6R_A
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: LOCKSUIT on March 29, 2018, 05:58:28 am
But when were you born?
What year did you start learning AI?
When did you hibernate?
When did you restart work?
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: WriterOfMinds on March 29, 2018, 06:18:25 am
I was daydreaming about robots and learning how to program when I was 13, which would've been in the year 2001-2002.  I started Acuitas Version 1 sometime in 2009 or thereabouts, while I was getting my undergraduate degree.  But I wouldn't say I got really serious about the project until about a year and a half ago.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: infurl on March 29, 2018, 06:18:47 am
I thought the year the movie was made, and simple arithmetic, would be more than enough for you to work it all out. Googling "AI Winter" just now, I see there were actually two such periods. I was referring to the second one that started in the late 80's, just after I graduated. I never actually hibernated. I've been programming, or thinking about programming, every day since I made my first computer. It was just that there wasn't any paying work available in AI for a while back then. Most people round their age to an integer once they reach double digits.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: infurl on March 29, 2018, 06:28:09 am
I was daydreaming about robots and learning how to program when I was 13, which would've been in the year 2001-2002.  I started Acuitas Version 1 sometime in 2009 or thereabouts, while I was getting my undergraduate degree.  But I wouldn't say I got really serious about the project until about a year and a half ago.

Where did your inspiration come from back then, and where does it come from now?
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: Don Patrick on March 29, 2018, 09:28:13 am
I never started learning AI, I just started programming one. I got bored in college when I was 22, and randomly decided on human-level AI as my next project to hone my Javascript skills on, a quest seemingly abandoned by scientists at the time. I am motivated by challenges that are considered impossible, and wanted to create something like KITT from Knight Rider, a computer entity with a degree of autonomy.
I jotted down a rough concept and started coding grammar rules 5 minutes later to test the principle. After three months of afternoon coding I had a working prototype that could process (very) basic sentences and questions. But then I ran into technical limits, learned C++, started a 2-year video game project, college and work demanded my time, and I put the project on hiatus. In 2012 I decided to use the money I'd earned to buy my own time and I've put in over 4800 hours since. And now I'm rich and famo- No wait I'm not.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: ivan.moony on March 29, 2018, 06:01:42 pm
I started in 1997.

Firstly, my motivation was money and fame, but as time passed, I realized more and more altruistic reasons for getting the job done. In fact, if there wasn't those altruistic reasons, I would have given up a long time ago. It is interesting how motives change as you are slowly growing up. You would think I am crazy if you'd know all of the motives that interchanged while I was having a progress in my research. One of my most favorites was AI inventing inhabitable electrical virtual environment for living beings where all the earthlings could live together, in harmony, free of their imperfect natural flesh bodies. And one of my wildest dreams was AI inventing a system that would at a press of a button bring alive *every possible soul* that can exist in the Universe (I'd call it a Big Bang if the name wasn't already taken). But the most of the time (to avoid strait-jacket) I settle down with AI contributing to any science field, preferably food industry and medicine. Or seeing a bit further, I often think of AI holding a carrying wheel in a kind of a future money-less utopia world.

These and similar motives keep me still very interested in AI. I told you, sometimes I'm as crazy as a popping corn, the other times I get down to face the cruel reality, but there is always a hope that AI would be a part of something wonderful.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: WriterOfMinds on March 30, 2018, 12:51:14 am
Where did your inspiration come from back then, and where does it come from now?

In the early days the main inspiration was science fiction. I think The Twilight Zone was what first really piqued my interest in the subject. Knight Rider and Star Trek: TNG would have been part of my mental landscape too, somewhat later.

I couldn't have articulated it as well back then, but I think I've always taken an interest in AGI because it's an example of the Rational Other -- something that differs from humans both physically and mentally, but can relate to humans on our level. Rational Others simply delight me for their own sake. I do think AI technology has the potential to be useful/powerful/altruistic, and that's part of how I justify the amount of time I spend on it, but my root motivation is not instrumental. Really I just want a meeting of the minds with a non-human, drat it.

Science fictional interpretations of AI continue to inspire me nowadays, though the material I draw on has expanded greatly. (Fantasy can be nearly as effective. A wizard creating a golem, an engineer building a robot ... same difference, really.) Tron, Deus Ex, Primordia (http://www.wadjeteyegames.com/games/primordia/), Girl Genius (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/), and Ian Banks' Culture books have all been rather important.

I wouldn't be telling the whole truth about my present-day sources of inspiration if I left out the spiritual aspects. So, since you asked: <religious stuff> Tolkien wrote, "... we make in our measure and in our derivative mode, because we are made: and not only made, but made in the image and likeness of a Maker." This applies to any act of creation, but coding perhaps approaches the Biblical concept of how the world was formed more closely than all others. The programmer wields logos; within the boundaries of the computer, he literally speaks things into existence. The opportunity to follow (in some limited capacity) in the footsteps of the Creator of the universe is tremendously inspiring. It's one of the ways I exercise what I see as my identity/purpose, and being on the creator side of what is in some sense a creator/creation relationship produces insights that feed back into my spiritual life.</religious stuff>
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: infurl on March 30, 2018, 05:24:14 am
Such clarity and honesty is inspiring by itself.

Really I just want a meeting of the minds with a non-human, drat it.

Now that you mention it, this is something that has always weighed heavily on my mind and is why I am so fascinated (and worried) by the Fermi Paradox. However as time goes by my trepidation increases. I'm mindful of Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus", which did not end well.

Ian Banks' Culture books have all been rather important.

These are among my all time favorite books and I think about them constantly. They portray a bright yet still troubled post scarcity future in which humanity (and other races) co-exist in a symbiotic relationship with vast artificial intelligences which travel constantly around the galaxy. I like to draw parallels between the entities in the Culture series, and human beings with our gut bacteria. So vastly different and yet so utterly dependent on each other.

I don't know what the future holds, but I can't wait to find out. Artificial intelligence seems like the fastest way to get there.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: spydaz on April 08, 2018, 04:02:22 pm
For myself : I had been given a ZX_Spectrum, after seeing all the new "Home" computers in the store. when i got it home i remember wondering why i could not just have a conversation and begun building my first "chatbot" , and got as far as ,
10 Print "What is your name"
20 input$ b
30 Print "hello " b

I remember buying lots of input magazines which had many programs in the lisp language and couldn't understand it, so BASIC became the first programming language;
The next generation (Star trek Sealed it!) I now understood the destination to aim for (Data) ... Although the Ships computer has no personality and is completely functional AI.

The UltraHal was a great inspiration to me and truly started me on the pathway to developing the HAL but after going through from Bob OS - HAL / ALICE / AIML BOT: It all became clear.

After going to university i was shocked to find out how little the scientific community know about Conversational AI, they are way behind internet developers; and the major companies are stealing the technology and fooling users into believing that they have created AI..... and yet they have not....
Machine learning / Data science has helped me along the way.... but only for the data management!
Linguistics and Psychology have been the most helpful of All.... to create a realistic digital human.... (we should all be able to create something to pass the basic Turing test)  doesn't mean its close to being a virtual human which is now what i'm aiming for....Ultrahal is still the best CHATBOT others are merely clones.

All inspirations can be sent to Zabaware!! (on the cutting edge) (Vonsmith) (don patrick) (knyttetripper) and others on the zabaware forum (ARRON!!)

I had always believed that Zabaware was where we was going to Solve AI...I know that the potential is here too; Once members stop flexing and start to actually collaborate.

But AI has inspired me - To get my degrees... Finances has stopped me getting more!
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 08, 2018, 06:06:03 pm
Well korrelan for example is 50 I think and doesn't have time to work with others especially me being 22 so, and is focus-driven, so, I think that's why there is parties that want to stay single-party. I think I can see why.

Is anybody here actually working *not solo? Fred? Korrelan? Infurl? And why if so? Maybe there's no use to team up?
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: spydaz on April 08, 2018, 08:11:10 pm
Well korrelan for example is 50 I think and doesn't have time to work with others especially me being 22 so, and is focus-driven, so, I think that's why there is parties that want to stay single-party. I think I can see why.

Is anybody here actually working *not solo? Fred? Korrelan? Infurl? And why if so? Maybe there's no use to team up?

To tell the truth the journey was hard to get to this understanding of Code and unrealised potential of chat-bots(conversational AI)  i have noticed that the older ones like to steer younger or newcomers on journeys of useless discovery.... without actually answering direct questions or even sharing previously Conquered code!

Personally it has been a battle figuring out stuff... even the basics.... no i feel that i can think about a problem or algorithm and recreate it with ease;
Methodologies i have learned along the way are all useful for tackling issues i come across or block me. 

i'm perfectly willing to share code; it can always be improved! or i can always relearn or get inspired by newcomers.... although i will never use python (even though i done a few exams and projects in python for I.T degree). But We are in a future where we don't even have to share actual code we can share "Libraries" which can be imported / Used by most programming platforms and languages. keeping you true to your coding platform and able to not need to understand the code required to accomplish the task.

My mind has always designed with a black box mentality. even if the component doesn't exist ; the box can be dealt with as skills develop or answers present themselves.

the neural network i shared is a bit mixed up but works ! its enough to understand how to build a neural network from code; I wish i was a mathematician and could explain the back propagation maths but at the time i figured it out with lots of you-tube!   when asking on forums i was always directed to interesting content and yet none actually showed me HOW! 
After figuring it out and building it i had no use for it! ..... again previously i had been suggested to use neural networks.... it too was a false lead....this can be a problem when receiving advice!
was i steered in the wrong direction ?
was it malicious?

Maybe maybe not ! but still it was a learning process. Now i'm so close to creating a self learning AI (language wise) understanding human language / as well as data gathering i become guarded to allow people to view code !
This is why Forums can be a problem and git hub too!
But ; It is always possible for me to show you code if i feel it would truly benefit you. this is why a community such as this can be guarded against newcomers / Spongers / people looking for answers without actually sharing anything.
But as you grow and become part of the  community and begin to share code i've found it become competitive. as we all actually want to share information. but not help you pass your degree!

Anyway There is always a personal message scheme !

We can hope attitude change!

Maybe?

PS: i worked for Bandai NAMCO and still people were only interested to work on work stuff only! without a brief or sprint to achieve they could not think for themselves!

Independent Thought is rare. most people are tuned to go to work! not become inventors.

Age does have a lot to do with it! (45)  as well as generation (90's)
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: 8pla.net on April 09, 2018, 12:27:32 am
"i have noticed that the older ones like to steer younger or newcomers on journeys of useless discovery.... without actually answering direct questions"

Often times, there is an NDA involved.  Believe it or not, the A.I. community is definitely not all hobbyists.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: korrelan on April 09, 2018, 09:52:42 am
@Spydaz

Being as I am the only person mentioned by name in your posts, are you implying that…

Quote
I have noticed that the older ones like to steer younger or newcomers on journeys of useless discovery.... without actually answering direct questions or even sharing previously Conquered code!

Refers to me?

 ???
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: Don Patrick on April 09, 2018, 11:35:01 am
A couple of reasons why I don't collaborate:
- My program is 17000 lines of code, and some of it is patchwork. It would take a year just to get someone up to speed, or vice versa.
- I've worked in teams in other fields, it takes a lot of additional communication and discussion to keep everybody aligned and going in a productive direction.
- Few other projects are really compatible. Even people working along similar lines have conceptual differences in knowledge representation or language parsing. If compatibility issues didn't exist, project Cyc would have been a grand success.
- I'd have to be crazy or a saint to hand out years of hard work for free, and I ain't no saint.  :angelfly:
- People are very unreliable.

I have a policy of only ever hinting at solutions, unless one is buried particularly deep. For one thing, because I think the world would be a better place if people used their brains more. WriterofMinds has come up with interesting twists of her own that advice from me might have stifled otherwise (I am referring to the development of bot initiative, something I didn't do). I find it rather contradictory to call discovery useless yet at the same time complain that people don't think for themselves.

PS: If I sound grumpy, it's monday morning.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 09, 2018, 02:32:55 pm
Let's analyse something here...

-More people working on the same idea = faster Discovery & Development (D&D) for n.

In other words, you have 2 brains working on discovering n, plus an ensemble (Team Power Rangers GAN).

Think about it. If I have you as a buddy, you could spark ideas in my brain or mentor things I want to know, and quicken the discovery rate of n. Why do teams exist anyhow? Power in numbers, different knowledge or 'skills'.

Say I convinced someone to come my way. That would be good for everyone. But it requires time (to hear me out).

Convincing would be not small things but the most important thing - the path one takes. Is it NLP? Robotics motion planning? What is intelligence? Then the 2 people are on the same path~
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: spydaz on April 09, 2018, 02:36:03 pm
@Spydaz

Being as I am the only person mentioned by name in your posts, are you implying that…

Quote
I have noticed that the older ones like to steer younger or newcomers on journeys of useless discovery.... without actually answering direct questions or even sharing previously Conquered code!

Refers to me?

 ???

Obviously I hope not; as you should notice, i used you as an example of "one of the older ones" being 50 and all..... 50 is not old .....  But i am  45 and some consider it as old "weathered" .

but noticeably sir, Quick to be offended is actually a sign of age Lol;

" Well korrelan for example is 50 I think and doesn't have time to work with others especially me being 22 "

Its hard to work with the younger Gen! but after recently experiencing a series of bereavements i understand knowledge can be lost so easy!...... It has made me realise; "share the knowledge before we die" exactly why people carved knowledge in stone!

 Maybe its another reason for the AI WINTER ! most of the other disciplines in computing there is a lot of sharing/ collaborating going on. whereas AI seems to have a Commercial aspect (make a millionaire for the discoverer), and a secretive aspect which makes it hard to get ahead.....

Exactly why forums like AIDREAMs are required!  Well done Freddy; as this forum has maintained and forum members from Prominent Backgrounds and the chat-bot pioneers are floating here.... So there is a lot of potential!

In the beginnings of AI it was also shrouded in a dark light as the commercial outlook for chat-bots are SEX-BOTS. and the people who want to create such products have been here at the beginning too! now there are so many possibilities for AI that commercial companies and colleges/universities are jumping in!
but the pioneers such as us are no where to be seen "still in the shadows"

Personally i have a lot of knowledge to share Paduwan i have tried making the odd You-tube but i'm not that guy! but i am a great technical teacher!
As you can see once is start talking i cant stop!



So No korrelan !

I'm always available on skype!

PS: Don Patrick I completely understand and i am also in a similar position i would never share my complete code ever (Arron the same)  as its a lot of achievement but maybe some Classes or Odd functions is no problem !
Or even explaining how i overcame the particular problem harmless....
I know the research process is very hard! jeeze my head is also bursting! and still don't know enough. there are no fast tracks to the future its all hard work. And appreciation is hard to find Sir!

And we are battling trying to create a technology that has already been achieved by the military science but not shared with the Academic or Commercial communities......


Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 09, 2018, 03:17:34 pm
Lol my mom just gave me speech and said about our dog (who passed away):

"See how we had no help. There's strength and power in numbers. You see how the army/military march with power and force? They work in numbers. Always remember that my son. There's power in numbers."

Lol.

Then I'm sitting there like   ._.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: 8pla.net on April 11, 2018, 12:34:58 am
I have a policy of only ever hinting at solutions.

Don,

Please, hint at a few solutions for my released code.  Being a light weight design, it needs solutions to figure out how to keep this chatbot simple, light weight but as capable as possible in the fewest lines of code. Excellent suggestions from infurl have already helped wonderfully.  For convenience I linked back to the A.I Dreams forum: Plain Text (http://aidreams.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12963).  Not to mention other members here have been supportive.

Please, I hope this is not considered an attempt to hijack this thread over to my thread. I only intend my thread as a reference for Don Patrick.  I just figured our discussion about releasing code, may benefit by referencing actual released code.   Why would a developer of advanced level A.I. object to releasing a beginner level A.I. source code?

In short, If you don't want to release your pride and joy source code, that's fine.  No one expects you to do that. It might become the most advanced operational A.I. released to date, if you did.  Maybe the world is not ready for that?  But (said in a polite tone) if you are a such a great A.I. developer, then why won't you help a beginner A.I. source code project for your fans? 

NOTE: Permission to quote this post is denied, unless you clarify that it is meant to use some humor in a request for help.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: Don Patrick on April 11, 2018, 10:19:16 am
I don't consider myself a great AI developer, but I am just not particularly interested in chatbot projects. I once emailed a professor who was recommended to me to have a look at my project, and never got a reply. I later learned that professors are extremely busy people and they don't benefit from randomly helping other people when it detracts from the time they can spend researching their own projects and helping their own students.
Similarly, I've just taken an hour looking at your code to indulge you, but I could have spent that hour improving my own program for the Loebner Prize otherwise. I know you for abandoning projects as quickly as starting new ones, and while that may be considered admirable in a way, it also means much effort goes wasted, in my view.

Locksuit, I do agree that there is power in numbers, when all noses are pointed in the same direction. But in an experimental field that is not necessarily the case without a strict hierarchy, like there is in an army or in a professional environment.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 11, 2018, 12:23:32 pm
So let's get on the same page already.

We want to create AGI right?

AGI is literally "forming discoveries".

Don't believe me?

How do we learn our sensory knowledge and actionary skills? Senses, and by internal thinking. This thinking discovers better/new knowledge/senses.

A pure example is a baby sim in UE4. It learns to crawl but after that it needs to be taught all of man's progress and then research/discover how to build nanobots, cure cancer, etc. The body / learning to walk is NOTHING. The baby would literally sit there thinking about how to build nanobots. I usually sit all day myself lol. I take in others work and discover my own new things at my chair (or during lunch lol).
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: infurl on April 11, 2018, 12:32:25 pm
Why would you want to work with people when you can write software that does the work faster and more accurately.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 11, 2018, 01:24:13 pm
And is that going to bring AGI within the next 5 years? We don't have that yet. It would have to play around with adding things and tweaking parameters. One-shot coding is more likely how AGI comes. It takes brains.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: Don Patrick on April 11, 2018, 01:26:30 pm
We want to create AGI right?
Actually I don't ;), so you'll have to count me out.

As for the whole "learning from sensory experiences" approach, this project (http://"http://www.mindconstruct.com/") may interest you. If you get a degree maybe you could join such projects. Now if you'll excuse me, I'd like to get some work done rather than discuss the work that I could be doing.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: spydaz on April 11, 2018, 07:51:32 pm
Myself
i'm actually only interested in Conversational AI
[/b][/u]
 ;)
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: 8pla.net on April 11, 2018, 11:40:21 pm
Don said, "I once emailed a professor who was recommended to me to have a look at my project, and never got a reply."
Your A.I. project is likely beyond the level they teach at college.   So it is safe to take the lack of a reply as a compliment.

I can recommend a college professor to you, who has helped another well known A.I. developer named Bruce.
So, simple to verify beforehand. And, I can guarantee a faculty email reply from this college professor,
with no requirement to share your project.

I suspect there are more college professors in our A.I. community than meets the eye.
But for the reasons you discussed, Don, they may not advertise it.  Imagine if a whole classroom of students
find their college professor online and join the discussion simultaneously like they do at school. 
Hard working professors deserve a break.  Even from a dream job, like getting paid to teach A.I. , robotics, and how to build a simple chatbot...  I mean, if you may empathize with that?
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: Don Patrick on April 12, 2018, 09:57:45 am
It is kind of you to offer, but I only brought it up as an analogy to express that my time, too, is a commodity that I do not have in abundance to share for collaboration. The time when I mailed that professor was years ago, and I have since found the answers to the questions I had then.

Spydaz: Conversational AI is one of my sidequests. Can you recommend any particularly inspiring research in that area? I found that neither AI professionals nor chatbot developers (aside from Bruce Wilcox) concerned themselves much with the psychology behind conversation, and I found Discourse Analysis "research" rather medieval. I've taken to psychology books instead, but it seems to me there ought to be some Dialog Manager systems that are more intricate than predetermined tree paths.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: spydaz on April 12, 2018, 01:06:30 pm
Opps Top Secret !

I have sent PM sir!.......

In truth there are no advancements in conversational AI ..... to tell the truth they are all using keyword and response! or hard-coded conversational trees.

People are a product of their environments and their exposure to the world. Truth is subjective to that person even though there is an overall truth.  Could your bot know all truth or learn the truth as a human?

What should the bot really say ? what are its intents / Imperatives?

As a business tool AI is just like a computerised doctor its a closed system with pre-programmed solutions and responses. although considered to be AI its a BoT.

the AI can be defined as not being in a closed system. therefore its concentration is on learning to respond. and learning information; gathering information. IT has no feelings there fore it has no emotional responses. (we can always design simulated responses but is we do then it would simulate being angry... whats the point!(SEXBOTS again).

Its this distinction that defines a project in Conversational AI.....

Psychology: plays a large part in designing a "Bot which acts like a human", "or make human Decisions":
Long-term memory / Short term memory / Working memory - Its how we organise our thoughts and knowledge...... Variables / Transnational database / Data-warehouse comparatively.
there are so many aspects of psychology that are required for AI.... If designing a Course on AI Formal logic / Psychology / Data warehousing / Machine learning   would play key roles.... designing Chat bots would also be KEY! .... And obviously PROGRAMMING....

In the World of open source - is this not the same as menu driven software? (for users not programmers)

Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: spydaz on April 12, 2018, 01:17:37 pm
AI.API .... https://dialogflow.com


a good resource for an API to integrate your AI into Social media.
This is an example of (keyword / Detect) LOL.

This is a jump start for beginners. we are in that world now ... where the powers at be do not want you to know how to do things ..... Just give you some answer that will satisfy you.... ie : open source provides answers and short cuts with out you solving your own problems.... this means later when you come across another hurdle you have no understanding ho to cross it.... unless another open source exists to perform or solve your problems .... This the problem today!
Whippersnappers ... thinking they know when all they are doing is just using existing tools! Tensor-flow etc are exciting projects yes but if you learn and use them the discoveries are not yours... essentially you have used their tech to accomplish your goals ...... numbpy lol its another shortcut.....
For a standard programmer there is nothing in numbpy that you cannot write for yourself... the librarys are like menus of commands to use . little black boxes...... as a beginner its useful but as you grow .... You should not need them ...... People choose a programming language now days because of the resources they can get from open source communities.... bad move! eventually open source librarys become commercial librarys which cost money! with you as the beta tester!
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: Don Patrick on April 12, 2018, 02:22:06 pm
In truth there are no advancements in conversational AI ..... to tell the truth they are all using keyword and response! or hard-coded conversational trees.
Ah, I was afraid of that since that's all I've come across too, but it's good to have that confirmed from someone who studied. Intent classifying systems have fascinating learning mechanisms, I suppose they could be used for conversational intents instead of for virtual assisting, but either way that's not the kind of NLP I have going on.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: spydaz on April 12, 2018, 04:13:53 pm
Your completely right!

The achievements and capabilities of my AI is much higher and closer to the dream!
The bots of this world can be recreated - in so many ways that each time they are actually the same!
Businesses are not really interested in AI as its self learning - The are however interested in BOTS....

They are where we were 20 years ago! even ultrahal is more advanced! and it is stagnant!
I remember the XTF & VONSMITH Auto topic creating brains.... they were very advanced for the time... and yet i have not seen any thing that matches these advancements.... I have only just included my own topic creating module but it just makes sure that there is some form of response. usually i disable it to let other higher function act.... But the auto topic crating brain enables for mass information gathering;

I feel that concentrating on What gets uploaded to the data warehouse or long-term storage should only be HIGH CONFIDENT information; in the transactional databases information with low confidence can be stored... obviously working memory is the current conversation....

I actually designed my memory based on "atkinson and shiffrin model"... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson%E2%80%93Shiffrin_memory_model

to cover "THINK LIKE A HUMAN".....

this is why i feel guided by psychology & philosophy...
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: infurl on April 12, 2018, 09:57:50 pm
In truth there are no advancements in conversational AI ..... to tell the truth they are all using keyword and response! or hard-coded conversational trees.
Ah, I was afraid of that since that's all I've come across too, but it's good to have that confirmed from someone who studied. Intent classifying systems have fascinating learning mechanisms, I suppose they could be used for conversational intents instead of for virtual assisting, but either way that's not the kind of NLP I have going on.

Google harder guys. Hint: different universities have different specialties.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: Don Patrick on April 13, 2018, 07:09:31 am
What a terribly unhelpful thing to say. I hope you're not referring to sequence-to-sequence learning as an advancement in conversational AI. Otherwise you might as well name the methods.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: infurl on April 13, 2018, 07:12:36 am
What a terribly unhelpful thing to say. I hope you're not referring to sequence-to-sequence learning as an advancement in conversational AI.

Well I'm sorry Don but I wasted a lot of time a few years ago trying to point you guys in the right direction and largely being ignored. I guess it was all going over your heads. But now to hear you stating categorically that such research doesn't exist is a bit much. I'm not posting the links again (and the work I indicated back then has advanced considerably in the meantime) so you'll just have to find the research for yourselves.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: Don Patrick on April 13, 2018, 07:16:38 am
Very well. If I've ignored it in the past, I will have had my reasons, and your reluctance is then understandable.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: infurl on April 13, 2018, 07:20:32 am
Very well. If I've ignored it in the past, I will have had my reasons, and your reluctance is then understandable.

You've been working as hard as anybody and I have no doubt that they were good reasons if you didn't have time to pay attention then. I don't mean to be an ass about it now either. I figure that if I make you go and look harder there's a strong chance you'll find something else that I missed. Then we can share and we'll both be better off. But trust me, there is some extremely advanced dialog research out there and it's ongoing and published in full by the people concerned.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 13, 2018, 07:41:22 am
Hehe I made this thread...
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: Don Patrick on April 13, 2018, 07:47:06 am
Sorry if we've gone off track too much, Locksuit, but I did try to keep it on the topic of learning AI, and the later topic of collaborating as you brought up.

Infurl, I'll have another look around, can't make any promises, of course.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 13, 2018, 09:41:15 am
Don't worry it's only human to leave ideas wherever we happen to be lol.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 13, 2018, 09:42:13 am
You got more of this stuff infurl?:

http://mindconstruct.com/

if u do tten my mouth is watering riight noww....
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: infurl on April 13, 2018, 10:18:39 am
You got more of this stuff infurl?

More of what stuff? I don't have anything to do with that website.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: Don Patrick on April 13, 2018, 10:43:30 am
I posted that link, Locksuit. You could find some more about it if you search for posts by the author on chatbots.org (he's no longer active there):
https://www.chatbots.org/ai_zone/viewthread/364/
https://www.chatbots.org/ai_zone/viewthread/2125/
However, not much concrete information is known about it out here in the open. The entire project went silent between 2015 and recently. And just so there are no misunderstandings: I only posted this because it is relevant to your tastes, I'm not a fan of it myself.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: infurl on April 13, 2018, 10:46:48 am
It always seemed like a bit of a boondoggle to me.

I wouldn't have wanted to have anything to do with it.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 13, 2018, 11:43:20 am
to do with.....AGI?
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: infurl on April 13, 2018, 11:49:56 am
to do with.....AGI?

Don't be so thick Mr Lock. It's a scam, pure and simple.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 13, 2018, 02:32:52 pm
Oh. I stil read the top and tried extracting anyhow.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: spydaz on April 14, 2018, 04:37:18 pm
Very well. If I've ignored it in the past, I will have had my reasons, and your reluctance is then understandable.

You've been working as hard as anybody and I have no doubt that they were good reasons if you didn't have time to pay attention then. I don't mean to be an ass about it now either. I figure that if I make you go and look harder there's a strong chance you'll find something else that I missed. Then we can share and we'll both be better off. But trust me, there is some extremely advanced dialog research out there and it's ongoing and published in full by the people concerned.


Problem is I am actually well read! i have looked at most research and research is no issue for me; Reading papers and understanding the ideas presented even.. reproducing results... One thing is With experience Its very easy to discount research as being valid or valid to your project or even your discipline. This actually comes with time... there is not much to be excited for new developments ! simple! The ideas being currently presented are actually old ;

As you mention sir! that ways years ago and that technology is probably moot by now.

Reality: There are no real Achievements t this particular time; I believe locksuit mentioned some work being done with neural networks and googles deep mind.... That's not new...achievements its "News"...The new and exciting bag of words / word to vectors / etc.... this is not new... its new to the public and even new to academics but not new to the internet. as it also builds on other work....
Again Problem : when you have investigated for as long as we have its hard for new things to get through without us seeing it real quick. there are many forums(think tanks) being visited and obviously i'm in them all search for me; obviously for many years;
I have seen Don Patrick there probably since 1999......

the internet and new information sparked the imagination;  as with all new developments but not all that glitters is gold. not everything is in the inter-webs!....neither the dark-web just for underworlds ....

I have noticed that books nowadays are getting expensive; those books with actual knowledge in , and even hard to find! Obviously Not everything is on Amazon! this is why often research takes you on journeys to other countries to speak to people actually pioneering this knowledge in universities or Communities of programmers / Thinkers with like minds... at events such as AI symposiums etc... Meeting with data scientist from Ethnic Countries; you will find that India also have a very high standard to Computing / N.L.P / Engineering....(not everything is in America/UK/CHINA)....

Not everybody has the same levels of exposure to knowledge or abilities in research; or capabilities!



Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 14, 2018, 05:21:50 pm
I find there is so much good information online in English that 1) I'm loaded with work and 2) you can easily get closer if you have your own knowledgebase - you don't "just gotta learn chinese" to see what the asians know.

Up to where I am there is still a small field there too, yeah in English language cus I read it on wiki. But I have some new things to add to NLP. So yeah you can go deep if you look in your native language...using Google/this forum/etc.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: spydaz on April 17, 2018, 09:42:08 am
I find there is so much good information online in English that 1) I'm loaded with work and 2) you can easily get closer if you have your own knowledgebase - you don't "just gotta learn chinese" to see what the asians know.

Up to where I am there is still a small field there too, yeah in English language cus I read it on wiki. But I have some new things to add to NLP. So yeah you can go deep if you look in your native language...using Google/this forum/etc.

YES:
ts important to have a good knowledge base. i would say that usually Each country has access to the same set of information. yet their perceptions, and implementation can be different. these differences are where discovery and progress is made. When living in a close minded western society  its hard to think outside the box, even discouraged. this is why my search parameters are much wider. 

Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: 8pla.net on April 18, 2018, 09:25:57 pm
"I guess it was all going over your heads." said infurl.

This reminds me to mention that I got what you suggested.

Yet, at that particular moment, I wanted a contraction that mimicked expansion.

Do you understand?   I sincerely appreciate your precious suggestions.

infurl, I am trying to create an approach to build a smaller A.I.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: infurl on April 18, 2018, 09:38:39 pm
"I guess it was all going over your heads." said infurl.

Hi 8pla.net, I was referring to discussions that took place many years ago, and not necessarily on this forum. It's tiresome when folks ignore the real and valuable work that is being done by qualified researchers, pretending it doesn't exist, and instead rave on about stupid ideas that are pure fantasy and have no foundation in reality. Why? Probably because it's easier. They can pretend that their lack of a formal education doesn't matter.
Title: Re: When did you start learning AI?
Post by: LOCKSUIT on April 18, 2018, 10:06:17 pm
At 13 I was in a big fantasy over building a photon atom replicator manipulator god. Right up till about 18 years old.

At 20 I was drawing stupid animations of "I got AI down pat".

Now, 22, well, I have always had real discoveries from before, and even more now, but look - I am not only on AI and here to stay but also know all the terminologies now and am cracking the puzzle and am going to learn more of the real Deep Learning out there. It's actually exponential I'd say. My progress is getting better.