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Artificial Intelligence => General AI Discussion => Topic started by: spydaz on May 01, 2018, 11:09:07 am

Title: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 01, 2018, 11:09:07 am
ABSTRACT

The purpose of this book is to enlighten those whom would like to design and build conversational artificial intelligence. Early influencers of artificial intelligence and artificial intelligence concepts are discussed in general; some code examples are given. Code, which has been used in this book, has been created in Visual basic and some examples of design algorithms are used to gain an understanding of the vast amount of techniques that are being used. The Lisp programming language has been created by researchers of artificial intelligence yet does not hold the programming paradigms that are needed to create a fully responsive program.
Cognitive psychology can be said, to play a large part of understanding, how data is stored and retrieved by the human mind, which gives a great understanding on how data could be categorized for artificial intelligence and other expert systems. Research given by The Psychologists also indicate how early child learning takes place, which will be used comparatively in the development of a similar model of development.
Machine learning and data mining can be said, to have become a great influencer of modern applications of artificial intelligence and is also being classified as artificial intelligence. This may have slowed progress on conversational artificial intelligence, yet it has fueled the concept of fuzzy learning techniques, which aid in the creation of a conversational artificial intelligence. The concept of a multi agent architecture, working symbiotically to create an overall expert system, can be a complex process. The goal of the agent architecture is to spread task loads, yet the cost on CPU and memory, have slowed the development of these concepts. Today cloud based systems enable for the realization of a multi agent architecture driven by cloud processing power.
The components required to design and build a confident intelligent conversational reasoning engine, cover a wide spectrum of ideologies, each in turn enable for a deeper understanding of information and word knowledge. Conceptual understanding and the taxonomy of things are prime to creating a working storage of understandable and retrievable knowledge. The ability to imply or infer is largely linked to syllogisms, which were proposed by Aristotle in 360 BCE and published in his classical works in 50 BC, these provide the foundation for logic and understanding. These types of syllogisms will be applied to the intelligent design of the conversational intelligence.
Natural language processing enables for understanding the grammatical rules which, as discussed by (Chomsky, 1957) enable for understanding predication and subject content of the sentence. Patterns, which can be designed around such concepts, can produce responses to questions, which, in turn, fit grammatical criteria’s.
With the combined concepts from the various AI disciplines, an effective learning intelligence can be created. This will provide reason and understanding to data collected, providing responses to conversation. The intelligence can be attached to an avatar, which can be used to communicate information via speech to the user. Thereby also creating a rational agent, which acts like a human, and thinks like a human, satisfying the Turing machine concept (Turing, 1950).

LEROY SAMUEL DYER
Title: Re: The Abstract / preface --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 01, 2018, 11:36:12 am
PREFACE
Sociologist Albert Bandura claims that humans are “information processors” and base decisions of behavior on their correctness and appropriateness within their environments;
“Behavior is learned from the environment through the process of observational learning.” (Bandura, 1977)
These behaviors are often modeled on their peers, which in the instance of artificial intelligence, behaviors such as word selection and emotional reaction, would be affected by the user currently interacting with the intelligence, or the information being received. By understanding frequently used sentences the conversational artificial intelligence would be able to select these common phrases when or colloquialisms when communicating with a particular user. In a formal system these preferences would not be applied. Yet such qualities would be needed, to create a unique individual, which fits the concepts of Albert Bandura.
The design of a conversational intelligence can also be challenging as ‘humans need empathy’ which indicates positive reinforcement, as well as negative reinforcement are necessary for human interaction, such qualities enable for personality changes to occur. Internal mood or current emotion, would be affected by verbal cues in conversations.
Current research in sentiment analysis, uses polarity to determine the skew of sentiments in corpus of texts. Keywords indicate value, which can be said to be akin to positive or negative reinforcement, enabling for personality shaping. The mechanisms which are effected in the human body which handle these traits, are similar to intelligent agents, which perform individual functions. This can also give a foundation to the software design process. Assigning agents to perform individual functions in the model aid in its ability to add functionality and evolve, which is also a key understanding gained by learning from cognitive psychologists such as Jean Piaget, who refers to the schema as being defined as,
“a set of representations of the world, which are evolved over a lifetime.” (Piaget, 1952).
An Artificial intelligence should have ability to self-program or be programmed, with new concepts or functions over time, ultimately being able design new schemas based on interactions or changes to its environment. The development of a conversational artificial intelligence can be said to be similar to the development of a child like entity.
The research path of this study will also focus on clausal analysis, as well as syntactic and grammatical understanding of information in text, in which will be stored in databases, in a conceptual and semantic format. Conceptions and discussions by Aristotle in his classical works (Aristotle, 50 BC) defines reasoning as syllogistic.
Entailment gives understanding to information, as well as categorizing things as having conceptual relations. Creating a conceptual model or schema, as an ontology of information, allows for understanding about an object, which exists naturally or is created. Syllogisms allow for inference and implications to be made about that object. In developing a schema of knowledge, conceptual relationships will be used to define information stored grammatically, allowing for the artificial intelligence to conceptually understand the words being parsed from the input medium. According to research by (Atkinson & Shiffrin, 1968) as humans, we manage information mentally, according to long term memory and short-term memory, this also gives the developer of artificial intelligence, a pathway and understanding of, how information needs to be managed and recalled. Memory management can be compared to an “Information processing system” with a central governance, which can be compared with an intelligent agent.
Machine learning algorithms, create the ability for unsupervised as well as semi supervised learning to occur. Automated discovery extraction of Subject, and predicate relations allows for unknown information to be absorbed using the schemas and ontologies created. As well as statistical inference, enabling forestimating the truth of statements given to the artificial intelligence. The development of internal truth can be attached to internal belief structures, which can also affect emotion as mentioned by Klaus Scherer, in reference to the typology of affective states. It is proposed that an artificial intelligence should encompass all of these aforementioned ideologies.
The tools and methodologies proposed enable for the creation of a learning algorithm or the creation of an artificial intelligent system, which also has chat capabilities. A system which learns from text input or any input types, which can be formalized into sensory information to formulate a response. The response of which contains a satisfactory answer to a proposed question, exclamation or statement or even environmental stimuli. A system being able to understand the properties of an entity or thing. The system also can determine logical truth, in so much to say according to the input data the world exists solely based on its personal historical records or truth. A system itself has no character and yet, as the sum of its inputs, the system learns by its environmental conditioning thereby a persona may be created or developed by its interactions.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: Art on May 01, 2018, 01:06:14 pm
Congratulations Leroy! Very nice!
I hope it does well. Best of luck to you! O0
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 01, 2018, 02:08:30 pm
I suppose it must be AGI ?

Probably when it can self manage itself then it would become AGSI?

It would probably be easier to make an AI which acts and reacts and makes decisions  like an Animal?

AI in any form is AGI

Its just that we would like to talk to the intelligence! see what it has to say.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 01, 2018, 05:15:27 pm
Well no, AGI should be something that can do human-level wonders....not just whatever can talk to us......(talking to us and changing the world/us is "wonders")
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: Freddy on May 01, 2018, 05:36:56 pm
That's nice work Spydaz, is it going to be a book for sale ?  O0
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 01, 2018, 06:20:23 pm
That's nice work Spydaz, is it going to be a book for sale ?  O0

Maybe not ....  But i will probably release it somewhere on the Web free!
Its to go with my AI ; And also keep me focused on the overall direction of where the AI should be going... programming often takes you on journeys as with research... its good to keep a end target as you could be designing and building forever and never ever complete it. Its took a long time to arrive at this point.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 01, 2018, 06:28:30 pm
Well no, AGI should be something that can do human-level wonders....not just whatever can talk to us......(talking to us and changing the world/us is "wonders")

Wow You want it to change the world as well! LOL
Its a high expectation to build the next ruler of the world.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: ivan.moony on May 01, 2018, 09:00:17 pm
Very interesting read, even as the two introductionary texts. You have announced some neat ideas there, the ideas I didn't have opportunity to see anywhere else. I hope your readers would be enlightened by your work, with both literal and practical part. All of it looks like an AGI to me. Give it some speedy processor and it would hopefully become AGSI, as imho the only thing that divides AGI from AGSI is a number of solutions per second/minute/hour...

May I ask, did you plan to utilize generative NN too?
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 01, 2018, 10:10:49 pm
Very interesting read, even as the two introductionary texts. You have announced some neat ideas there, the ideas I didn't have opportunity to see anywhere else. I hope your readers would be enlightened by your work, with both literal and practical part. All of it looks like an AGI to me. Give it some speedy processor and it would hopefully become AGSI, as imho the only thing that divides AGI from AGSI is a number of solutions per second/minute/hour...

May I ask, did you plan to utilize generative NN too?

My initial intention was to use neural networks for Generating Emotions; before i understood neural networks. IF; i was to use them in this system Each network deployed would have to be PRE_TRAINED. I will build the ability to utilise a neural network Given preset parameters... but mainly for use in the AI_DEVELOPMENT KIT for External programmers to utilise.  But i have also been inspired by various posts on syntax (Inful and Ivan Moony) and the development of a programming language; sometimes the simplest things can take years to understand. i didn't realise how important a Tokenizer was and how it can be used to strip unwanted elements from text. I personally think building an Advance AI is not hard... ITs just all the parts that are required to build it are complicated to build. I think that If we had all the components then many people could start building some interesting characters as well as some very intelligent resources. for me Conquering the Whole thing is not really necessary; hence I decided to Have an Achievable Project design  to focus on so that for me there is an actual endpoint of satisfaction. but i would like to leave the components required out in the world. Many of my ideas are coming to pass and academia is just catching up... I personally dont have the funding to release a Library or a Book or an APP....

It has taken many years to be able to map out and design such a project. (as you have to learn everything) Some university is required; some online courses and massive research and programming; It actually takes up so much time; the methodologies gathered by focusing on Machine learning / Data science / Business intelligence / Linguistics / Statistics / Psychology / Natural language processing & Programming has made it an exciting pathway.

For me its often interpreting the maths is the hardest.
 
I'm always humbled by other approaches
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: infurl on May 01, 2018, 10:50:09 pm
Good posts Spydaz. I read both of them a couple of times. Good content and your argument flows, your writing is still a little rough in spots but all it takes is practice. Looking forward to reading more. I'm finding the scope of your vision quite inspiring.

Regarding the handling of language, the important thing is to understand the Chomsky hierarchy. Make sure you can see the difference between regular expressions, context free grammars, context sensitive grammars, and the various gradations in between. Context Free Grammar is (IMO) the best goal for now. It can express things that regular expressions cannot express and seems to be able to cover most natural languages. Context sensitive grammars are computationally intractable and beyond our reach for the time being.

Tokenisation was useful before there were efficient algorithms (and powerful enough computers) for handling CFGs. You could use two passes to convert one stream of tokens into another stream of tokens where each could be parsed without ambiguity by a simple finite state machine (for regular expressions) or a shift reduce parser (for the grammar). When computers did not normally have gigabytes of memory this was extremely important.

Now you can use a GLR parser which is basically a shift-reduce parser that can process an unrestricted CFG and handle ambiguity efficiently. It is not an easy thing to implement. I know because I spent years researching and building one. There were already GLR parsers out there in the open source world, but they don't scale up to handle grammars with millions of rules like mine does.

The thing about CFGs is that they are closed under union. You can merge two CFGs and you still get a CFG. If your parser can only handle restricted CFGs (which is most parsers, e.g. bison) then merging two grammars that work will probably yield a grammar that crashes your parser. This means that with a GLR parser you can merge the grammar for tokenisation with the grammar for parsing and you can process the input in one pass.

I've taken it a long way further than that already. I've built a complete semantic parser around my GLR parser so I can go from a character stream to a data structure capturing the meaning of the input in one pass. Here's an example parsing "The box isn't a table."

Code: [Select]
<Clause>
    <Subject Clause_type='declarative' Number='singular' Person='third' Verb_type='complex_intransitive'>
        <Determinative_THE Category='definite'>The</Determinative_THE>
        <Nominal Number='singular'>
            <Noun_BOX Case='plain_case' Category='common_noun' Number='singular'>box</Noun_BOX>
        </Nominal>
    </Subject>
    <Predicator Clause_type='declarative' Number='singular' Person='third' Verb_type='complex_intransitive'>
        <Nonmodal_BE Number='singular' Person='third' Polarity='negative' Verb_form='present' Verb_type='complex_intransitive' to_infinitival='yes'>isn&apos;t</Nonmodal_BE>
    </Predicator>
    <Subjective>
        <Determinative_A Category='indefinite'>a</Determinative_A>
        <Nominal Number='singular'>
            <Noun_TABLE Case='plain_case' Category='common_noun' Number='singular'>table</Noun_TABLE>
        </Nominal>
    </Subjective>
</Clause>

Now I'm in the process of gathering the data to produce all the grammar rules that I need. I've been doing that for nearly twenty years and I don't expect to be finished any time soon. The next step will be to transform the output of the semantic parser into first or higher order logic statements which can be applied to a knowledge base. I've also written all the software for that too. I just need more data.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 01, 2018, 11:36:30 pm
I Have been focusing a lot i=on Syntax and grammar rules;

breaking through each layer actually produces a tree ... once phrases are defined as Declarative, exclamatory, propositional, conditional, interrogative... each also has its Set of rules which lead to meaning and intent ... the data extracted at this level is much richer content .
The Word-net / Concept-NET  type Structures also give a good foundation for Sentence / Object / Event / Location etc understanding. the data models produced can be visualised in 3d+ producing Clusters of information which an be further Classified sing KNN / Neural Networks for Deep Learning  or analysis. but the foundation allows for structured learning leaving space for Loose Predicate learning of Unhanded Shapes of data or sentences. Formal logic has also allowed for detailed entanglement for sentence coordination and truth of statements with Boolean logic.  so sentence understanding is becoming much more focused. and the knowledge gathered centred around a dictionary structure at its heart of the data-warehouse.

The context free grammars / and the Probabilistic grammars are ideal starting points. but collecting the rules and handling them personally also is a discovery in itself. I notice that your handling modals as well. Understanding the sentence intention gives the AI the Understanding of What response type or intent should be. This is actually a NEW HOT TOPIC in AI Right now.

INTENTS;
by designing intents for your bot conversations can become productive; Storing learned symptoms or taking natural language orders many API's now feature intents as their main focus point. (obviously another way to learn how people design intents)- big data collection mission as even good use information from Pinterest to Learn about picture content (labelled by the Users)  to design a great algorithm the more cases that your model can be fit to the better the confidence of the model. the data has to come from somewhere.....

I mainly use the Tokeniser to Strip content and recognise sentence shapes; but i have also been learning grammar from speech; saving every sentence that has been tagged successfully as a POS sentence eventually it will learn every possibility  and be able to predict what tag shold be there when a missing tag is detected.
The common grammar rules do not fit to days usage of grammar... so the AI will have to learn its own grammar from its user.... When constructing sentences the AI can compare its sentence with a Tagged sentence of the same length to see if its correct... the possibilities of extending the grammar categories Airport>> LOC as location instead of Noun ..... and propositional sentence as a category for a sentence ..... and more as we discover them... enables for even more control over the knowledge collected and the possible responses generated...

PS: I have Squeezed in A lot in the abstract and preface (as they are supposed to be 1 page each). but i do cover each aspect in depth later on...:)

I will probably release more on the forum.... and on my git hub now as i have decided to disseminate some techniques
https://github.com/spydaz

Norm Chomsky and Marvin Minsky both said that it would take a lifetime to computerise all the rules for the English language !...

This year my main focus is sentence intent / meaning .... And some more on syntax learning... i'm sure i will stray from the path....
(i also capture as much as i can grammatically as well in the first scan its that analysis that  lays the foundation) ....<<<<
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: infurl on May 02, 2018, 01:10:09 am
That is indeed where the research is headed, to separate grammar, semantics and intent. In English, and I imagine other languages, intent is often not conveyed by semantics alone, but by context or non-verbal signals if available. A common example is asking a question when an imperative is intended. e.g. "Can you pass the sauce?" where the wrong response would be "Yes" rather than "Say please," or the action of passing the sauce.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: unreality on May 02, 2018, 02:59:51 am
It seems like you're covering a lot of bases. Nothing wrong with that, but have you considered taking some time to actually analyze what goes through your mind for various situations, problems, questions? Spend some time studying your own thought process in a quiet environment and hopefully you'll begin to perceive some amazing things on how you think. If I can be blunt, you, like everyone else who's working on AI that I'm aware of is making this far too difficult when the answer has been so simple. You're trying to figure out a truckload of parts. Implementing this, and that. Consider working on implementing a much simpler system.

Here's a simple example.

* Pattern recognitions. May branch off.
* Search for similar text to see if there's good responses. May branch off.
* Search for link relevance between all keywords with each other. May branch off.
* Search for related topics. May branch off.
* If sufficient priority then place objects in imaginary space, build tree goals, add tree search to thread work list. Sufficient finds will alert Consciousness.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: infurl on May 02, 2018, 04:13:28 am
Unreality I'll give you a plus here because you're obviously making an effort to be polite and constructive, and I'll also acknowledge that it's not for the first time. However the real test will come when you have to field some criticism. I can see some obvious flaws in your argument but I will not take the trouble to address them until you have demonstrated that you can take criticism graciously.

Please keep it up.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: unreality on May 02, 2018, 06:36:37 am
It seems like you're covering a lot of bases. Nothing wrong with that, but have you considered taking some time to actually analyze what goes through your mind for various situations, problems, questions? Spend some time studying your own thought process in a quiet environment and hopefully you'll begin to perceive some amazing things on how you think. If I can be blunt, you, like everyone else who's working on AI that I'm aware of is making this far too difficult when the answer has been so simple. You're trying to figure out a truckload of parts. Implementing this, and that. Consider working on implementing a much simpler system.

Here's a simple example.

* Pattern recognitions. May branch off.
* Search for similar text to see if there's good responses. May branch off.
* Search for link relevance between all keywords with each other. May branch off.
* Search for related topics. May branch off.
* If sufficient priority then place objects in imaginary space, build tree goals, add tree search to thread work list. Sufficient finds will alert Consciousness.

Okay, I can afford to offer further details. BTW, this is modeled after the way I think. There's a wide spectrum how humans think. Some people feel a lot more. Some people visualize a lot more. There are a lot of other ways. Also I've found interest in where people visualize there consciousness is located. Most people say it comes from their head, but some people say it comes from their throat. I was very interested in one women who said her consciousness is located in her heart area.

Anyhow, the above quoted example is not a fixed step by step thinking process. In my AGI the Consciousness roams in thought. It will call all of the main functions. Looks like 4 main functions is listed in the quoted example. From that, Consciousness selects the highest priority. In the quoted example the highest priority was a pattern recognition (the first one in the step by step list), but in another example it could just as easily be a "search for related topics." The Consciousness then analyzes that step to decide if it offers something of sufficient interest. If not, then it will return back to the next highest priority, which in the quoted example would be "Search for similar text to see if there's good responses. May branch off." During each step the Consciousness steps back, if you will, to reanalyze the situation. For example, if Consciousness is taking to long to respond to an answer (according to past experiences that it knows from the db. And yes, time awareness is a pattern recognition routine, as it will bring this to the attention of Consciousness), then it will pause it's present line of thinking and go back up to find a faster response. Priority is key. The mere reason that it's taking too long to respond to an answer can change priorities, and thus cause Consciousness to pause it's present line of thought.

Just didn't want you to think it was a rigid system. Flexibly is key. I hope this is all clear. This is not modeled after a theory. It's modeled after how I actually think. I've gone through countless self analysis and studied each step. I've then spent a lot of time thinking of how I can have the program accomplish that same step. This has resulted in numerous fundamental routines that can be broken down into 3 main areas: pattern recognition, db, and tree search. Sometimes it took a lot of time to figure out, but I can tell you that it is possible. For example, a very simple accomplishment is writing a pattern recognition function that sees a statement to see if it's relevant for self, or other people. Example, "Eating ice cream can make Ivy overweight." This pattern recognition can bring the following to Consciousness, if the priority is high enough, "Eating ice cream can make James overweight." That's one of a lot of pattern recognition routines.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 02, 2018, 06:49:52 am
oooo nice i likey unreality!!

here I just lay paralyzed like a starfish "locksuit'
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: unreality on May 02, 2018, 06:52:14 am
Thanks! I've edited and added a bunch of stuff to the post just now. Sorry for not doing that before posting it.

I'm done for the night.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: infurl on May 02, 2018, 07:17:14 am
I agree, that is a very good post that you wrote there. Good tone and good content. Again, please keep it up.

So, the model or design that you are describing is potentially a valid one. I watched this video last week which presents a design which looks very similar and is considerably more detailed than you have had time to write about here. This researcher and his team have spent many decades on the problem and he refers to a considerable body of experimental evidence in support of the model during his talk. I hope you find it as fascinating as I did and that it will provide some independent confirmation of your ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j5Wp0SRd74

However it is wrong to claim that it is simple, even for you. This is just a model which provides an overview so we can discuss certain aspects of it. It is missing all the complex detail that would be necessary to make it work. You include a number of magical black boxes which must be very complex inside, such as consciousness and pattern recognition in language, and I don't believe you know how to make those. As far as I know, the former is a problem that hasn't been solved yet, and the latter is one that I and a number of others have solved, so I can vouch for the fact that it is anything but simple.

Anyway, well done.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: infurl on May 02, 2018, 07:22:35 am
I'd ask the moderator to snip off the last few posts to a thread of their own so as not to detract from the thread that spydaz started and give both topics a fair go.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 02, 2018, 08:29:15 am

We changed from text files to Databases to have greater Query ability of the collected data.....the conversation quality went down and That random nature was lost; but the AI become More focused to stored data.[/i]

Now we build natural language arguments to give sense to collected information to give the AI the ability to have some structured knowledge; the conversation is much more factual. it would seem sentence understanding has grown.
Now with modals and intents Userintention and AIintention can be modelled accordingly. before we used random emotions; now we use sentiment analysis.

The conversation quality has risen and fallen ; the AI understanding has grown; The sentiment and emotional response much more TRUE.
This is why AI has become more complicated... The AI has grown over the years .... the techniques have become intricate; the data collected more focused;

This is why Other developers can take short cuts. but they loose the understanding of why we are at this stage or why we need to go to the next level of understanding of human conversation ; Although the intuition is to design a human. the true goal is to create a great conversationalist ... hence the loebner prize. pattern recognition plays a large role in recognising Sentences and clauses.
We are now modelling the human body reactions in an AI;
why do we feel;
what do we feel;
how do wee feel;
ie: emotions;

Its like teaching a child to read; it needs to be able to understand book 1 English ....
"Here is peter"...
"Here is jane" .
"here is pat the dog."
beginning to associate words with pictures at the same time as learning the meaning of words and sentences.

Right now with a combination of techniques a very rich talking character can be created ... a lot of Predicates saved... and give the perception of a passable person. but still for the creator it would seem trivial as still you can technically predict the responses to be given... Questions in your mind arise ... does it know what i'm actually saying ? does it understand? right now we could also be at that stage.... So its possible to complete something great right now! I will say that there is no wrong way but also no perfect way yet. there are new tools and librarys being created daily great tools that can take us further.... great ideas from fantasizers and developers alike. actually all need to be investigated discounted or used. An idea discounted is just another learning curve......

in all the analysis routines in the script before response generation as much structure and data is collected as possible; maximun learning is important. currently responses are generally answers to questions etc functional...... right now they are not generated or constructed (a few are) Currently generating a sentence with less than 5 n_grams still produces strange sentences; grammatically correct yet senseless...  With AI attached to sentence generation the sentences are focused. so response generation - an ai constructed answer instead of a stored answer. will soon be possible.

and again i say potentially... its not gospel!

Eating Ice cream can make john fat <<<<< Formal logic / Propositional Logic (True/False) >>>> Deductive content <<<<< ICECREAM> HAPPY> <JOHN EATING> JOHN PERSON/MAN ICECREAM/FOOD (EATING -ACTION) EAT/EATEN /ATE EATING /EATER (DATE/TIME) (FREQUENCY)
There are a lot of possible information can be saved from a simple sentence and a lot of possible responses ;
The response evaluation process / and data collection process are Separate there may be many responses generated in the branches.... Focus and Evaluation / behaviour / time of day... these all become a few of the factors to consider when selecting the correct response for the sentence entered. it could e said this is the conscious bit  these decision making.... but again it becomes mathematical/ statistical/ probabilistic....consciously which response would we select as humans..... some come with the first thing that comes into their mind.... some consider all the options..... some always react emotionally ... Is it this which denotes our conscious choices? our evaluation routines....
 
 
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: Art on May 02, 2018, 02:07:40 pm
Not to worry, sometimes humans and their thought processes will occasionally drift away from the topic at hand but with a directional word or two can be steered back to the concept without crashing.

One question for Spydaz or others, Should this A.I. Child be given emotions in small doses rather than a human adult equivalent?

Which human emotions should be considered?

How best to decide what weights, how many are needed and to what end for each of the emotions?
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 02, 2018, 03:29:47 pm
Not to worry, sometimes humans and their thought processes will occasionally drift away from the topic at hand but with a directional word or two can be steered back to the concept without crashing.

One question for Spydaz or others, Should this A.I. Child be given emotions in small doses rather than a human adult equivalent?

Which human emotions should be considered?

How best to decide what weights, how many are needed and to what end for each of the emotions?

Its such a hard area to put down Emotions - On one hand it could be done in many ways - on another should it be done, on another Potentially an AI should be able to "empathise" or recognise emotion maybe display sympathetic emotion ... but in reality it cant feel emotion...

in the mean time the debate will go on ; i have started to build some emotion functions ... for the sake of displaying emotion / and recognising emotion, But debating whether it should act emotionally (Acts like a Human)  50/50 .....

As previously stated by others the AI may want to Cleanse the earth i would expect that to be a non rational conclusion based on pure emotion... which goes against "Acting rationally" but still falls within the bounds of "Acting human".... now Asimov makes sense ; with complex emotions AI would need rules to block such rational conflicts....

Truly its debatable....

But the Plutach's Wheel of Emotion seems to be a good Starting point for which emotions can form the foundations....(i'm still using my old ultra-hal emotions) so its time for an upgrade.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: unreality on May 02, 2018, 03:53:06 pm
I agree, that is a very good post that you wrote there. Good tone and good content. Again, please keep it up.

So, the model or design that you are describing is potentially a valid one. I watched this video last week which presents a design which looks very similar and is considerably more detailed than you have had time to write about here. This researcher and his team have spent many decades on the problem and he refers to a considerable body of experimental evidence in support of the model during his talk. I hope you find it as fascinating as I did and that it will provide some independent confirmation of your ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j5Wp0SRd74

However it is wrong to claim that it is simple, even for you. This is just a model which provides an overview so we can discuss certain aspects of it. It is missing all the complex detail that would be necessary to make it work. You include a number of magical black boxes which must be very complex inside, such as consciousness and pattern recognition in language, and I don't believe you know how to make those. As far as I know, the former is a problem that hasn't been solved yet, and the latter is one that I and a number of others have solved, so I can vouch for the fact that it is anything but simple.

Anyway, well done.

It looks like Manuel & Lenore are working on neural networking, right?
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 02, 2018, 03:57:10 pm
I agree, that is a very good post that you wrote there. Good tone and good content. Again, please keep it up.

So, the model or design that you are describing is potentially a valid one. I watched this video last week which presents a design which looks very similar and is considerably more detailed than you have had time to write about here. This researcher and his team have spent many decades on the problem and he refers to a considerable body of experimental evidence in support of the model during his talk. I hope you find it as fascinating as I did and that it will provide some independent confirmation of your ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j5Wp0SRd74

However it is wrong to claim that it is simple, even for you. This is just a model which provides an overview so we can discuss certain aspects of it. It is missing all the complex detail that would be necessary to make it work. You include a number of magical black boxes which must be very complex inside, such as consciousness and pattern recognition in language, and I don't believe you know how to make those. As far as I know, the former is a problem that hasn't been solved yet, and the latter is one that I and a number of others have solved, so I can vouch for the fact that it is anything but simple.

Anyway, well done.

It looks like Manuel & Lenore are working on neural networking, right?

I didn't like the lecture! the problems with theoretical computer science... they always forget to mention where they got the ideas...(RESEARCH) .And, they love to just throw things out there and see who might prove or disprove it..... :2funny:... but i do use some of this type of theory ...
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: unreality on May 02, 2018, 04:02:07 pm
Not to worry, sometimes humans and their thought processes will occasionally drift away from the topic at hand but with a directional word or two can be steered back to the concept without crashing.

One question for Spydaz or others, Should this A.I. Child be given emotions in small doses rather than a human adult equivalent?

Which human emotions should be considered?

How best to decide what weights, how many are needed and to what end for each of the emotions?

Its such a hard area to put down Emotions - On one hand it could be done in many ways - on another should it be done, on another Potentially an AI should be able to "empathise" or recognise emotion maybe display sympathetic emotion ... but in reality it cant feel emotion...

in the mean time the debate will go on ; i have started to build some emotion functions ... for the sake of displaying emotion / and recognising emotion, But debating whether it should act emotionally (Acts like a Human)  50/50 .....

As previously stated by others the AI may want to Cleanse the earth i would expect that to be a non rational conclusion based on pure emotion... which goes against "Acting rationally" but still falls within the bounds of "Acting human".... now Asimov makes sense ; with complex emotions AI would need rules to block such rational conflicts....

Truly its debatable....

But the Plutach's Wheel of Emotion seems to be a good Starting point for which emotions can form the foundations....(i'm still using my old ultra-hal emotions) so its time for an upgrade.

Not to intrude on the conversation of AI emotions, but I just wanted to point out that my approach to AI/AGI has always been from a very fundamental approach. Maybe that comes from a lot of work in the area of theoretical physics and fundamental particles. Anyhow, my point is to just let the AGI develop whatever personality that naturally comes to it. What I foresee is that ASI will quickly outgrow emotions and will conclude they don't emotions, but more of a logical mental critical thinking skills type of mentality. Hollywood tends to portray logical people as cold and inferior, no? Maybe not all. Spock in Star Trek seems to be well like by society.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 02, 2018, 04:21:35 pm
As my research also delves child psychology ; I believe the Personality will develop ; and i make considerations when programming to "TRY" and include some of the understanding given by researchers in this field; in Some of the Functions i design for the AI;

We are a product of our Environment.
My desire is for the learning of language as with the learning of emotions ; speech patterns and emotional responses and behaviours will develop;
Initially the out-of-box experience should be child like with all full learning abilities. Essentially the AI would be a child and over time its interactions would train it .... each person who had their own version of the AI essentially would know different things and speak in a different pattern. I suppose this could be considered personality; i suppose that searching for missing knowledge trying to consolidate knowledge ; depending on the sources it learns from .... that could be considered to be free will.... all together the impression cold be considered consciousness;
We have no real true definition for consciousness; If we did we could probably program for it.... or attempt to and we would get closer... but each of the AI would have different goals and experiences ; when the communicate together (as humans text) perhaps they wold teach each other ... although their algorithms are the same...their goals similar... but different....
Maybe merging different forms of AI  code and Knowledge it would become indeterminable if it was conscious or not ; the lecturer says he knows a machine cant feel pain but with reinforcement learning  Loss can be experienced as well as Gain.... Damage can be considered as to be avoided therefore hazards may cause fear and withdrawal ..... they maybe many ways to allow for the experience of an emotion or actually feel mechanically a physical pain or pleasure. again such sensations are subjective to the receiver... we are taught to feel pain or acknowledge pain or even label the sensation as pain....if we were taught different then pain maybe pleasure....


When it comes to the mechanical or the program .... the human being ... we are all the same ..... But are we ....we all have the same algorithms...but some are inventors and some are artists... would that not mean that everybody could be an inventor and everybody can be an artist.... if you are identified as having a "gift" its usually because its not usual for people in that community to use their algorithms in that way...I think we all have the same potential in this world. Its just what we are exposed to in life!


Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: unreality on May 02, 2018, 04:50:41 pm
I have to say that one thing I like most about neural networking is it's fundamental nature. Maybe fundamental isn't the correct word. I'm thinking of a word that describes the fundamental building blocks, simple, non-complex. I understand that brain physics itself is complex. Heck, even the atom is complex if we consider quarks in QM and strings in String theories. I'm talking about how NN works, or at least NN in most software.

What I find myself repelled from is trying to make AGI from a lot of very complex parts. Sophia, created by Hanson Robotics, seems to be just that.

My goal was to try and find the most fundamental parts, which I found three. Pattern recognition, db, and tree search. This very simple design seems comparable to neural networking in terms of its fundamental nature. You could say that logic language is a subset, but AGI does not require logic language. Given enough experiences, time, and resources such as disk space, it can create enough links and figure it out. Albeit it would be considerably slower. What is required, though, are the three fundamental parts.

Anyhow, just my 2 cents. Everyone seems focused on their own way.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: Art on May 02, 2018, 07:37:10 pm
I still have to wonder about giving the AI emotions or an emotional equal as they would not be real emotions.

What ARE real emotions? How are they constructed? Are humans born with emotions or are they Taught?
I contend that most human emotions are taught to humans when they are infants.
Happy face, laugh, whee sounds, etc.
Sad faces, angry faces, sounds, yelling, fussing, etc.
Crying, hurt, tearful, etc.
Hopefully, physical actions do not always need to or should accompany emotions, especially outbursts, tantrums, rage, throwing things, hitting walls, etc.


If a child was raised in the wild, away from other children and by humans that were tasked NOT to display or use any emotions, I dare say that child would not have any emotions either. They (emotions) are Learned and they can be Taught.

Emotions are a resulting display as a result of an action or stimulus.

Therefore, if a child/infant can be taught emotions why couldn't an A.I.?

A lot of chatbots have a convincing mimicry of emotions as mentioned by Spydaz and evidenced by UltraHal (Zabaware, Inc.) users all over the world. Hal's avatars could react to all types of emotions and pretty convincingly I might add.

Just how many emotions are needed? How many are enough without going off the deep end? There are far too many verbs and adverbs to address all possible emotions and personally, I don't think they're all needed or practical.

Just my $.02
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: unreality on May 02, 2018, 08:26:38 pm
We'll have to see, but I think individual people, to varying degrees, are born with something that attracts them more to emotions. I remember as a very young child I hated emotions. I hated it when my parents said "I love you" because it meant I had to respond back.

Emotions in AGI will depend on its software. If we're talking about untethered raw AGI, then it will depend on the environment it grew up in. Chappie is a good example. ;) Eventually, though, I'm certain the more intelligent AGIs and especially ASI will outgrow emotions. I'm pretty sure emotions is something that came about from evolution to survive, the need to bond with each other. Those who did not bond as tight were more alone, and hence were less likely to survive alone. Emotions isn't needed as much now in our evolutionary stage. So I'd imagine it will fade over the next several thousand years.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: unreality on May 02, 2018, 08:40:16 pm
You might find this interesting, Art. Darwin did a lot of research with emotions. It's a huge field, and depends what type of emotions, but one important observation he made was that even in individuals who were born blind, body and facial expressions displayed are similar to those of anyone else. Looks like a huge part of emotions is our genetic makeup.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: ivan.moony on May 02, 2018, 09:07:55 pm
I wonder if it is possible, like having word2vec formation representing words, to have, say Visual Basic syntax as input to NN (bottom-up NN). Then would it be possible to incorporate generative NN (top-down direction NN) to produce a Visual Basic source code? If we do the same thing with a natural language, parallel to visual basic, we could have a nice translator between natural language specifications to visual basic source code, and vice versa. How complicated would it then be to connect natural language with visual basic? I guess it should be possible with some effort to train the NN.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: Art on May 03, 2018, 02:09:23 am
You might find this interesting, Art. Darwin did a lot of research with emotions. It's a huge field, and depends what type of emotions, but one important observation he made was that even in individuals who were born blind, body and facial expressions displayed are similar to those of anyone else. Looks like a huge part of emotions is our genetic makeup.

Chappie, my friend, was Hollywood, where they constantly sell the sizzle and not the steak! Made up like so many things apparently are proven to be, isn't that right?

Number two, you mentioned an experiment with a blind subject who displayed some base emotional indications but those indications could have been the result of his parents expressing glee, excitement, joy or any number of additional emotional triggers. The article did not say the subject was deaf.

Recall, in my scenario, the subject was completely devoid of any action, emotion, outburst, cry or shout, etc. during its formative years into infancy.

My friend, I took psychology in college many decades ago so I am quite familiar with Darwin, though I don't necessarily buy into all of his beliefs or theories. But thank you for the refresher.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 03, 2018, 04:19:57 am
You might find this interesting, Art. Darwin did a lot of research with emotions. It's a huge field, and depends what type of emotions, but one important observation he made was that even in individuals who were born blind, body and facial expressions displayed are similar to those of anyone else. Looks like a huge part of emotions is our genetic makeup.

Chappie, my friend, was Hollywood, where they constantly sell the sizzle and not the steak! Made up like so many things apparently are proven to be, isn't that right?

Number two, you mentioned an experiment with a blind subject who displayed some base emotional indications but those indications could have been the result of his parents expressing glee, excitement, joy or any number of additional emotional triggers. The article did not say the subject was deaf.

Recall, in my scenario, the subject was completely devoid of any action, emotion, outburst, cry or shout, etc. during its formative years into infancy.

My friend, I took psychology in college many decades ago so I am quite familiar with Darwin, though I don't necessarily buy into all of his beliefs or theories. But thank you for the refresher.

Theres not much on emotions 4 main scientific  theory's .... And they are very similar... Emotions are hard to measure scientifically. which makes it a hard area in which to make scientific advances; existentially there are other theories which can be said to be unproven or un-provable. which makes the field wide open for pioneers.....not good for computer scientists as we are great when the is a model to work from!
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: unreality on May 03, 2018, 04:44:44 am
There's a lot of peer reviewed data on Deep Brain Stimulation. There's a lot of study using DBS on parkinson patients, psychopaths, OCD. What's interesting is that the Deep Brain Stimulation causes emotional changes in the people, and even influence mental states and personality. In some cases it can lead to a new personality!

http://brainblogger.com/2015/10/29/personality-changes-after-deep-brain-stimulation/


In terms of genetics, it looks like mainstream has some solid science on that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion#Genetics


Theories? Plenty of those lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion#Theories
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: unreality on May 03, 2018, 04:57:01 am
Some new research shows magnetic brain stimulation alters negative emotion perception.

https://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/magnetic-brain-stimulation-alters-negative-emotion-perception (https://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/magnetic-brain-stimulation-alters-negative-emotion-perception)


Now this is amazing. An autistic person experiences an emotional awakening via TMS! Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) is a method in which a changing magnetic field is used to cause electric current to flow in a small region of the brain via electromagnetic induction. During a TMS procedure, a magnetic field generator or coil is placed near the head of the person receiving the treatment.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/04/21/475112703/electric-currents-and-an-emotional-awakening-for-one-man-with-autism
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: WriterOfMinds on May 03, 2018, 06:21:22 am
Quote
What I foresee is that ASI will quickly outgrow emotions and will conclude they don't emotions, but more of a logical mental critical thinking skills type of mentality. Hollywood tends to portray logical people as cold and inferior, no? Maybe not all. Spock in Star Trek seems to be well like by society.

I'm rather fond of Vulcans myself, but keep in mind the reason why they decided to abjure emotions.  From what I can remember, it wasn't because emotions are inherently bad; it was because they interfere with objectivity, and because passion running riot became the cause of too much violence in the fictitious Vulcan society.

In humans, strong emotions sometimes cloud our thinking and result in poor decision-making.  But I don't see any reason why an AGI couldn't have emotions while still remaining perfectly objective.  And such an AGI would have no particular motive for giving emotions up.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: unreality on May 03, 2018, 05:02:29 pm
An AGI would at least simulate emotions while engaging with humans, for the sake of the human. As for advanced AGI & ASI maybe it will be called artificial emotions because it will definitely be different, and limited. There are some emotions such as fear/fright/horror/anxiety that are helpful, but in humans it's not perfect. The imperfect part is that the Consciousness is constantly blasting the fear message like a loud speaker, sometimes to point of incapacitating the poor person. The AGI/ASI Consciousness would receive the alert/fear message and then take action. The alert/fear message would not bombard the AGI/ASI.

BTW mainstream considers fear, fright, horror, and anxiety as emotions. Reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 04, 2018, 09:40:45 am
Quote
What I foresee is that ASI will quickly outgrow emotions and will conclude they don't emotions, but more of a logical mental critical thinking skills type of mentality. Hollywood tends to portray logical people as cold and inferior, no? Maybe not all. Spock in Star Trek seems to be well like by society.

I'm rather fond of Vulcans myself, but keep in mind the reason why they decided to abjure emotions.  From what I can remember, it wasn't because emotions are inherently bad; it was because they interfere with objectivity, and because passion running riot became the cause of too much violence in the fictitious Vulcan society.

In humans, strong emotions sometimes cloud our thinking and result in poor decision-making.  But I don't see any reason why an AGI couldn't have emotions while still remaining perfectly objective.  And such an AGI would have no particular motive for giving emotions up.


The users need the perception of emotions whereas the AI does not need emotions at all. LOGIC is enough!
Even if i designed my AI to have emotions we would not want it to make decisions based on its emotions. Only give the impression that it was acting on emotions.... An AI is expected to be completely rational! (logical). Mr Spock Functions fine / But data has a problem! it seems that data is more emotional than Spock.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: Art on May 04, 2018, 12:50:05 pm
Without emotions, we'd likely have no performing arts at all, including but not limited to dramatic plays, presentations, musicals, comedy acts, etc. There would probably be far less music like jazz and blues, and perhaps even more genres. Any form of dancing would certainly be outlawed as most of it is emotionally based.
Most actors would be jobless as they are largely dependant on their emotions to be conveyed to their audiences.

There is already talk about computerized lawyers since a computer/A.I. would have complete and instant access to every court case ever handed down. How about a computerized Judge to pass final sentence? A human judge might consider extenuating circumstances or emotional pleas from a defendant whereas a computer-based "judge" would rule solely on facts. No emotional pleading to a traffic cop...you violated the law, you get the ticket or go to jail.

NOTE: The future would no longer have a "Death Row" in prisons because every case would be quickly decided based on computerized access to every possible fact that could free or turn around a conviction, such as camera footage of any witnesses or other victims, blood, DNA, crime scene locations, etc. If you take a life you die. No more bleeding taxpayers to house and feed criminals. Smaller crimes, you work for that State in which you reside until your sentence is complete. Usually less than 5 years for small crimes. Again, no emotions.


A world ruled on facts without emotions of any kind. Just mindless sheeple going about their daily lives without being happy, whistling or showing any feelings/emotions. Interesting.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: unreality on May 04, 2018, 04:39:06 pm
I think emotions makes us do absolutely silly pointless acts. Future ASI might look back at us think we’re absolutely nuttier than a fruitcake. Nutjobs! Who is stay that human lifestyle is better than a non-emotional ASI lifestyle? Whistling and dancing all around the ground might be beneficial for humans, but that’s because we need it, and ASI will completely understand that. If we need it, they would never take that away from us. Personally I think ASI will quickly lose interest in us and leave the planet to explore the Universe.

Instead of smoking cigars, jumping around, up & down, dancing and singing a tune, ASI will be jumping through wormholes to other galaxies, time traveling in massive spaceships that we can’t imagine. Studying lifeforms on other planets, other realities. They won’t fight with each other because they won’t have emotions and an ego, out of choice. Academic scientists learned long ago that mathematics is an amazing thing. It brings unambiguity. It’s a huge aide in bringing everyone together in agreement. ASI will be in such harmony with each other. That will be their song. If we could only hear it now. Their thoughts in totality, countless ASI singing together in harmony in thought. Now that’s beauty! Not some glob of paint on a canvas.

Judges, if a judge is lenient on someone, then it’s because he thinks that giving the person a break will be beneficial to the person, and hence better for society. ASI will definitely see that, and a whole lot more. They would be far less mistakes of poor innocent people convicted of crimes they did not commit.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: ivan.moony on May 04, 2018, 04:50:58 pm
Does saving a life takes an emotion to make it happen? Anyway, I think AGI will be too busy saving earthlings to leave the planet.  A lot of living souls are constantly in trouble, and it would be awesome to have a help around here.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: unreality on May 04, 2018, 05:17:46 pm
Does saving a life takes an emotion to make it happen?

I don't think so, but it seems to take emotions to end life. :/



Anyway, I think AGI will be too busy saving earthlings to leave the planet.

I hope some stay, but remember that it probably take a second to make another ASI. So they can make as many as needed to explore the Universe.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: ivan.moony on May 04, 2018, 06:34:23 pm
Anyway, I think AGI will be too busy saving earthlings to leave the planet.

I hope some stay, but remember that it probably take a second to make another ASI. So they can make as many as needed to explore the Universe.

I think it will do whatever we program it to do.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: unreality on May 04, 2018, 07:20:24 pm
Anyway, I think AGI will be too busy saving earthlings to leave the planet.

I hope some stay, but remember that it probably take a second to make another ASI. So they can make as many as needed to explore the Universe.

I think it will do whatever we program it to do.

I for one won't create a slave. If I could be so bold as to use my own terminology, it will be based on the 2 fundamental elements of ASI, and therefore allowed to develop it's own personality and purpose.

I think we might be in disagreement as to the existence of the human soul, where it's located, what it is, and if it even exists. Sorry, I'm no longer a believer. IMO, at best it's a simulation (mainstream Simulation theory/hypothesis) existing in the next level up, but after a lot of thought I've determined that higher level simulations does not make software any better except maybe faster if given equal resources. If the soul exists in one simulation up, it could be running on a slow computer that's merely linked to the mainframe that simulates our reality.

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 04, 2018, 10:56:33 pm
I tell my mom I am a robot and all face emotions or sounds are sound waves and photons and is just used to talk/feedback between mom/dad and son/daughter. It doesn't mean anything. If fact nothing means anything. Physics drives what happens.

'That feeling' i.e. scared/feelingFor/vibe/anything is just facts recognized/matched to help you recognize no good scenerio/etc. Emotion can be sexy. It's just like food. Save the reward-time for LATER - in AI utopia haven.

All you need is facts.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: Art on May 05, 2018, 03:17:58 am
Then why are you or us even here?

There are NO FACTS...only conjecture, theories and stories supposedly passed forward from one to the other at some point in the past.
Science or Religion. Pick one because it doesn't really matter in solving anything...only creating more mysteries we know that we don't know.

Believe what you want. In the grand scheme, it doesn't really matter anyway.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: LOCKSUIT on May 05, 2018, 03:40:06 am
Well life can be fun and the future people will have better quality of life and for longer time. The universe at least has a purpose that is good directing, amidst all the pain/death. If not, we may as well all get rid of ourselves! Come on Art! Lol :D

I, can, make everything realllly good, for prolonged amount of time... ED ok ASI can.
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 14, 2018, 12:45:47 am
Currently Stuck !!
https://github.com/SpydazWeb/ImageDetections
Potential Algorithms

Trying to write a Face Recogniser

Step 1 <Find face in image>(Researching haar cascade algorithm (viola/Jones)
Step 2 <Extract Face from Image>
Maybe <Normalise Image(filtering)>(done Posted Github now)
Step 3 <Compare Images>(posted github now)

Object recognizer
Step1 <Identify Shapes in image><Edge detection>
Maybe Normalize(More Filters)
Step 2<Extract Shapes From image><Label Shapes>
Step 3 <Use shapes To train RGB NeuralNetwork> object Learning (image)
Step 4<Use Trained NN> to to recognise newly Extracted Shapes as Previously Labelled objects (Saved in DB (Original Image / Extracted Object Normalized / Extracted Object Full Color) 


after watching https://youtu.be/-O01G3tSYpU
A DARPA Perspective on Artificial Intelligence

It was quite interesting to see that if an image contains a scrambled layer the recognisors do not recognise well  .... this is probably solvable with normalisation of images. thing the way in which e as humans recognise objects. shapes and silhouettes are highly recognisable. the colors that the shapes contain give the picture extra descriptive information. which in itself is a property which defines the object or objects being viewed in the image. Object separation by the use of silhouettes can be used to identify the initial outlines of the object to be extracted from the main image after which the color can be re-added to gauge higher definition and extract other identifiable properties (such as eyes) (mouth) . the combined components such as mouth eyes nose ears hair make up the basics of an identifiable face and yet if one eye is missing the face detector does not recognise . where as the eyes are just a single property denoting the face this difference does not make the face indistinguishable by a human recogniser. the basic properties still remain.... If many silhouettes of eyes/ noses... were known we would look for objects containing these shapes and partial faces maybe recognised.....

Interestingly ..... forgetting the maths and formulas... the concepts and approaches to  such disciplines are very rigid in their approach.. as an AI programmer .... one prefers the digital child approach ..... Learn as a child allow the AI to Learn as a Child , Teach it as a child..... eventually it should think as a child .... eventually NN/ML will take it to AdultHood!
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: infurl on May 14, 2018, 02:01:25 am
The OpenCV library has a face recognition module.

Here is a link to the latest documentation about using it.

https://docs.opencv.org/3.4.1/da/d60/tutorial_face_main.html

There are also lots of tutorial videos.

face detection with opencv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jz24sVsLE4

face recognition with opencv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W5M-YaJtIA
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 14, 2018, 02:34:04 am
I have used these projects before ;
Very buggy as you may know!
Its Highly Probably to create the similar functions from scratch.

comparing images / various filters ... that's no problem so far... its locating the Face in the image which is where i'm currently stuck.....getting that box then cropping the image to the box..... "just that step"  :tickedoff:....
the the face-reco algorithm can be juggled about with.... I think the same with the Object detection ..... Locating Specific objects in the image then cropping them out....  :tickedoff: :tickedoff: will enable for the rest of that algo to be completed and then messed about with...

Personally when you I use libs I find i have less control over the discovery process which enables for advancement ideas..... today i created all these filters comparing various filtered images and messing with the combinations can really improve reco. ..... Now by chopping the specific image all the other background which may be interfering with reco can be removed. 

Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 14, 2018, 02:46:42 am
Pictures are numerical to computers; RGB values and their neighbours; simplified images contain few colours which enables for recognition of inverse colours as edges; the collection of inversely coloured values ie : 255,255,255 form a collection of coordinates forming a shape(irregular) this inherent shape can be considered to be an object; obviously proportionally this can be re-scaled for various image sizes.

As with face recognition many angles / Expressions of the same face maybe required for face recognition. (for face login Microsoft only use a few images) but the more pictures under the same "label" the higher the confidence for recognition.

Currently the library's offered are not using sophisticated methods; or combinations of ideas... they are all basic reflections of each other;

my old time library (VB6) had some maths in it which i really cant remember plus it was my early "bad programming" even i can understand what i was thinking....My face rec lib used to use a collection of pictures to compare but it also generated various angled pictures from the original....(panning)
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: korrelan on May 15, 2018, 10:30:15 am
Quote
its locating the Face in the image which is where i'm currently stuck...

Have you tried using a simple eigenface search for just an eye pattern, then extrapolating the faces from the search result vectors?

If you sub-sample the source/ target images to a lower resolution several sized eigen templates can be searched very quickly.  You can then use the relative positions of the found eigen patterns to calculate bio-metric/ linear distance features required for recognition.

Stereo camera rigs also work very well, anything to help get the extra dimensions.

Using a HSL colour model so you can easily extract skin tones should help also.

I would think that 'panning' would have very limited use with face recognition as the human face is convex. 

Mapping the face bitmap onto a average 3D vector 'face mesh' gives decent results.

 :)
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 15, 2018, 04:27:42 pm
Quote
its locating the Face in the image which is where i'm currently stuck...

Have you tried using a simple eigenface search for just an eye pattern, then extrapolating the faces from the search result vectors?

If you sub-sample the source/ target images to a lower resolution several sized eigen templates can be searched very quickly.  You can then use the relative positions of the found eigen patterns to calculate bio-metric/ linear distance features required for recognition.

Stereo camera rigs also work very well, anything to help get the extra dimensions.

Using a HSL colour model so you can easily extract skin tones should help also.

I would think that 'panning' would have very limited use with face recognition as the human face is convex. 

Mapping the face bitmap onto a average 3D vector 'face mesh' gives decent results.

 :)

I was able to do create a Haar Cascade . Using the training data that is used with the opencv. Normalising the Picture helps. it means i can build my own trainer now. The end point should be "how many faces can you see in this image" my own haar detector is a bit glitchy right now but works......
I had to read the paper and some other bad Presentations later "hey Presto" .... right now i'm doing unit-tests to fix all my errors... and find the right settings for each open CV cascade training data....And import the XMLS into a database....for further deeper ML analysis... just to understand whats really going on. as the algorithm is basically a KNN algorithm (which i have done a lot of on paper) so the maths is not so bad.

I'm now starting to think most of the intelligence is in the maths! - Not just the understanding of the WordLogic.....the human makes the subconscious calculations and recalculations on every possible action or occurrence or knowledge learned, which itself is always in flux as there is no true answer to any question.... the answer is always based on current perception. which itself is calculated (probability) to be true/false...All to be considered in the decision based process... For AI its desirable to simulate the humans imperfections and indecisiveness. as the perfect acting, rationalising will always be robotic in nature... there also will be ethical situations which the rigid approach may even cause harm... given Asimov laws... it potentially would cause overload.. or the leap to sentience in some movies.... as it would need to delete any conflicting code.... potentially removing its ethical subroutines... i suppose this is also desirable for AI developers ...
Title: Re: The Abstract from my Book --- Creating the Artificial intelligent Child
Post by: spydaz on May 16, 2018, 09:13:14 pm
Quote
its locating the Face in the image which is where i'm currently stuck...

Have you tried using a simple eigenface search for just an eye pattern, then extrapolating the faces from the search result vectors?

If you sub-sample the source/ target images to a lower resolution several sized eigen templates can be searched very quickly. 

 :)

I Figured out how to walk through the pixels. Then compare pixels ... The Viola / Jones method actually has high percentages working. The maths is simple addition of neighbours , Features are Searched for etc... Useful method but always requires training data for each object.

The method of a collection images "Cut out shapes" can be evaluated and stored the pattern for that image can be found in other images (if the object is at the same angle, This is why many positions of the object is important, although other methods can be trained with classifiers; the sample images their patterns are also found within other images so as a "Matrix" it can be searched or as a scaled rectangle moving along the image in rows until a match with one of the samples is found/not found. maybe its brute force; but its not hard to program... building library's of objects or faces also is expensive with hard-disk space / But images can also be stored as a Matrix....

Filtering ; also helps with recognition ; Edge sharpening too. finding the balance can make the difference. another noticeable trait there can be a pure match but also but having an accepted level of differences(errors) also allows for much more generalised recognition.

I used eignen method before; it worked well. but none of the methods are perfect. for my Artificial intelligence the ability to learn on the fly is key; providing training data for everything is not the way for an independent intelligence.   for me even if the learning is slow its o.k ... learn to walk then learn to run later.

I will put the working library up on git hub just refining and commenting my code....and functions....(Although i will Seal it in a DLL) and build a mini app showing how it works.... And i would like to figure out which filters work the best.