Touch Sensor Line

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keghn

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Touch Sensor Line
« on: October 14, 2016, 12:56:15 am »
  I have finally come across a design for touch system for a agi body. :D

 It is based on transmission line logic. That is two parallel line that a pulse is sent into one of them, and are separated with a coat of thin squishy foam.
 At place where it is pinched it will send back  a reflection. Timing the return reflection will give me the location. Just like radar finding a flying plane: 

http://www.falstad.com/circuit/e-tlmismatch.html 

http://www.falstad.com/circuit/e-tlterm.html 

 I am going in this direction because it seems easy. Also because printable semiconductor paint of type P and N have not been fully developed,
to do printable transistors and diodes, at this time.
 I originally wanted to make print logic gates and also print a data and addressing communication buss right onto the body of the AGI, to access pressure sensor that are a millimeter square or smaller. 

  Also, this other way is not available to me of using microscopic chip for addressing gate, that access a body wide micro communication bus. The next problem is there is no micro assembling device to assemble everything and to install everything in place on a microscopic level.

 I am not going to use capacitive sensing for a various reason. That are used inside of smartphones: 






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keghn

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Re: Touch Sensor Line
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2016, 09:02:32 pm »
 The problem with silicon integrated circuit is that they very difficult so separate from their super high chip. May be I could
have LSI make them. Then cut them out of the chip and then install them with a micro robot: 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSI_Corporation   




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korrelan

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Re: Touch Sensor Line
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2016, 11:18:51 am »
I’ve been pondering this problem, to create a soft flexible skin that can moulded to any shape.

Too make it cheap, reliable, water proof and easily interfaceable with a modern computer.

I think the solution is fibre optics.

If you had a matrix of fibre optic threads, the X cord has a strobing light source that quickly lights each X thread in turn… and along the length of the X threads you had Y threads at right angles connected to simple light intensity sensors (LDR’s). You separate the two X and Y layers by a semi-transparent foam filter. As pressure is applied to a location the LDR would detect the intensity difference through the foam as it compresses, you could easily calculate the location from the combination of strobing and the LDR’s. You would also need a ambient light bias for the LDR’s.



You could even re-use the same LDR inputs for several patches of ‘skin’ depending on the frequency/ scan speed of the strobe input.

It would also look WAY… cool to have the skin illuminated on a bot with this system.
 
:)

Edit: It could even be done with a servo and a single light source, using a pinhole mask. You would just need to know when the rotating mask passed an index point. The same would work for just using one LDR.
It thunk... therefore it is!

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keghn

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Re: Touch Sensor Line
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2016, 08:10:37 pm »
 I can really relate to using optical fiber for a touch based system. I have given it a lot of thought. My though are pretty much the same as yours @Korrelan.

 Just like shooting laser down big bundle of fiber optics with this tiny 10 $ lidar chip might work.It  has 51 degrees or
movement for the laser beam: 

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/08/lidar-on-chip-should-be-1000-times.html

 I have given thought of using analog electricity signal through a multiplexer made out of high speed digital
circuit and a mechanical multiplexer that uses a servo or tiny moto. And optics is way better with a mechanical multiplexer.
 The electronic signal would go out into the "Cross BAR" touch sensor network that uses capacitive or resistance sense detection at the intersections. Image is just for viewing purposes: 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpatentimages.storage.googleapis.com%2FUS20090163826A1%2FUS20090163826A1-20090625-D00004.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fpatents%2FUS20090163826&docid=jLFJRkxSGGaQwM&tbnid=hCSFItsdP3HkaM%3A&w=2446&h=2667&itg=1&bih=676&biw=1308&ved=0ahUKEwir-Ma5vufPAhUPxGMKHeETCYAQMwgsKA0wDQ&iact=mrc&uact=8


 The signal go to gose threw digital or mechanical multiplexer, servo, for  signal distribution. Then goes through the
cross bar network touch sensor grid. Then the signal comes back through return collector multiplexer right into analog to
digital detector that a computer can read.

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Art

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Re: Touch Sensor Line
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2016, 03:52:43 pm »
I'm thinking, "Liquid Polarization"
Tiny electrical charges change the direction of sandwiched particles between a flexible membrane allowing light to be dimmed or completely blocked if desired. To go from transparent to opaque in less than a second.

The result is not unlike today's modern welding shield lenses that are transparent until the welder (person) strikes an arc turning the lens extremely dark in a micro-second, protecting the welder's eyes from the blinding flash of light.

In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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keghn

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Re: Touch Sensor Line
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2016, 05:00:34 pm »
 I have given that a lot thought too @Art. My laptop has a LCD display and distorts when i put my finger on it.
 My thought on it is to have edged framed with a mirror and shoot a fine laser beam in from the side and the beam
would bounce around in there for ever. Then there would be a light detect in the last place the beam would hit. And
a back ground detector for scattered light detection. caused by distortion in liquid crystal.

 Or the beam could be shot into LCD display form the side and have a laser on a servo to shine it everywhere and the LDC display would be lined with detectors on the edges.

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Art

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Re: Touch Sensor Line
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2016, 12:37:36 am »
I actually thought about that back in my high school physics class then I realized that the laser beam, would eventually lose power after a number of reflection bounces and would diminish in visibility.
Nothing reflects 100% of what it takes in and no light source is 100% of strength and brightness.

So in theory, our ideas seem sound, while in the real world, not so much.... ;)
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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keghn

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Re: Touch Sensor Line
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2016, 03:03:22 am »
 One idea that I am fascinated with a blow up spider with a mirror mylar body with kevlar to hold the strength or my be
carbon fiber later on. For really high  pressure. With this bot, At the heart, suspended, would be a omni directional scanning laser scanner with
laser receiver, or 360 by 360 degree lidar:-).   All other components would be made of clear plastic, glass, or diamond. 

 Or maybe it could be blimp like. Like the Huragok from halo: 

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Huragok 

 And there is these: 

 


 



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Art

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Re: Touch Sensor Line
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2016, 03:45:54 pm »
Yes, those from Festo are quite cool and imaginative. I also found a few other examples, a couple of which are more Toy oriented but still fun.

Water Jelly


Air Jelly


Smart Bird


Air Swimmers

In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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keghn

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Re: Touch Sensor Line
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2016, 08:29:35 pm »
 A 360 by 360 degree scanning LIDAR suspended in the middle of theses gas filled robot will work for a
touch sensor: 

http://www.roboticstrends.com/article/what_is_lidar_and_how_does_it_help_robots_see

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keghn

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Re: Touch Sensor Line
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2016, 08:23:01 pm »
 My touch sensor will be two long conducting strips with a thin foam separator. When it is push together a pulse will
be detected greater at that pinch point.
 It can work on a 3 meter strip by a millimeter. They are two parallel strips are not connected. but a capacitive
pulse can jump through at the pinch point.
 The way the touch strip is scanned is by sending a timed positive pulse on the top conductor from the right side. The bottom
conductor sends and ground pulse or OFF to a ground or negative pulse from the far left side. As soon as the top pulse
and bottom pulse overlap the jump over pulse can be recorded and detected on the bottom conductor.
 By timing the pulses, any part of the strip can be probed.
 This method is to leverage the ultra dense chip circuit technology of this era. In a time with no spray on semiconductor
paint or inks to make circuits on the external body of a automaton:

https://www.google.com/search?q=image+tattoo+of+circuits&espv=2&biw=1466&bih=740&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjXh7-7ntHQAhWEw1QKHUQ-DoEQsAQIHQ&dpr=0.9#imgrc=_

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infurl

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Re: Touch Sensor Line
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2016, 12:34:08 am »
Adafruit industries has a good range of touch sensors available, including the materials for making your own custom sized touch sensors. They support both pressure and capacitive varieties.

https://www.adafruit.com/categories/60

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keghn

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Re: Touch Sensor Line
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2016, 12:56:04 am »
 Thanks i well go take a look and see if the have something that will cover 4000 square inches:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_surface_area

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keghn

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Re: Touch Sensor Line
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2016, 10:23:20 pm »
State of the art sensors made from graphene and children's toy silly putty: 

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-12/ac-sot120516.php

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keghn

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Re: Touch Sensor Line
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2016, 04:35:29 pm »

Turning the potential of electronic printables into a real breakthrough: 
http://newatlas.com/ultrathin-high-res-electronic-decals-mit/46852/

 


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