the Group

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Zero

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the Group
« on: June 20, 2017, 09:55:51 pm »

Hi guys,


I believe implementing an AGI is not a one man job. Imagine a democratic Group of coders, working together to implement an AGI.

So, the Group acts as a single entity, making decisions one at a time.

It goes like this. A member of the Group posts a Request For Decision, which is an open question to all members. During the first 24 hours, options can be submitted by any member. Then during the next 24 hours, members vote for their prefered option. If there's a tie, members vote again for 1 of the 2 biggest options. When the decision is made, the Group examine the next Request For Decision. Requests For Decisions can be posted at any time, they're queued and examined FIFO, one by one. When an RFD is about someone implementing something, obviously the coder can accept or decline the mission.

The Group would not start working before reaching 20 members.

The first Request For Decision would be : "What should be the first Request For Decision?"

What do you think?

-----

BTW, congratulations on the new forum face, it's really neat and I like it. Good job!  O0


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keghn

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Re: the Group
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2017, 11:15:46 pm »

  AGI is not a one man deal. With my compete AGI theory i have done the math 
and there is allot of work. Too much for one person. 
 I have alway been good at starting something. But i am too nerdy and when i get the 
company going they get rid of me or bring in their party buddies or out of work relatives 
and put them in positions that are higher than me. 

 So a group that can vote me down or out i will  avoid. 



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LOCKSUIT

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Re: the Group
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2017, 06:07:20 am »
Hi Zero. I'm developing a 3D simulation human baby (and have LOTS to show), because I have ALL of AI and am going to prove it to professors by doing this.

I need coders, I need a "group". If this is your intention, then my god, hello!

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Zero

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Re: the Group
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2017, 08:47:56 am »
Hi keghn and LOCKSUIT,

I understand you both have a complete AGI solution in your minds. And you both say that it's too much work for one coder.

keghn, do you believe LOCKSUIT has a complete solution?
LOCKSUIT, do you believe keghn has a complete solution?

I believe both of you.

If you trust each other, and if you believe that you both are not alone, I mean, that there are other people with a complete solution in mind, would you say that working all together to implement an AGI could succeed, even if it's not a one-father project?

keghn, to be voted out, a member would have to post a Request For Decision about kicking you out, and more than half of the Group would have to vote "yes", which is very unlikely, unless you deeply screw things up. You would not be below other members.

LOCKSUIT, yes this is my intention, but you understand that if you're a member, then you would have to post RFDs and then comply with the Group's decisions, just like any other member, right? You would not be above other members.

Does it sound fair?



EDIT:

There's a free web app called Loomio. It could be used to make decisions, together with a github "the Group" account to implement stuff.

I'm wondering whether the 48h per decision cycle is too short. We still have the possibility of posting a "too early to decide" option, which would postpone the vote, if elected. Submitting complicated options, that require explanations, could be time consuming sometimes.

Also, it is possible to submit a "close question" option (like StackOverflow) if it is, for example, not specific enough. A Request For Decision about "which general architecture" is not a good RFD. A Request For Decision about "which programming language" is a good one, although abit simplistic.

Then, what if 10 new members have different opinions about already made decisions? Well, maybe decision should have a life status: alive or frozen by another decision. By default, after a vote, the decision is alive. But sometimes, one decision implies freezing another one. So there would be a hierarchy of decisions freezing other decisions. If the Group wants to change a frozen decision, first it has to change the freezing ones.

Just throwing ideas on the screen...

« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 11:34:39 am by Zero »

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: the Group
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2017, 01:44:04 pm »
I'm very pleased to hear your idea Zero.

I'm completely fine with being submissive. As long as I get a chance to have my piece of the word-pie, progress will be through the roof in no time.

The only problem Zero is that everyone on this forum is more relaxed. They don't say all day every day they "will create AI" etc like I do. Keghn and only a few others are trying to work on AI or even code it, and korrelan shows brutality force in militant ways. But there isn't lots of desire to create AI from them. None of that is enough. I have The Everything, a hierarchy of knowledge and work on "all" 24/7. For now 3 years I've worked on how a human baby will get mobile and progress from there on etc. I have it all. It's a working system. I have lots to show.

I would like to help start up The Group right away. I want it to exist, and flow with productivity, trial and error, and tweaking.

"Too much work for one coder"
To implement all of my AI it wouldn't take super-enormous work. And to start it off greatly, it is very very easy. The problem is that I'm not a coder.

Smart line > If anyone on this very forum can code and use all the tools needed, then they obviously haven't made anything special and therefore have nothing special. Vice versa if anyone on the forum says they have special stuff but can't use the required tools, the ones who can code should test their ideas.

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keghn

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Re: the Group
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2017, 01:56:41 pm »
 Locksuit has skimmed over lot of my work and it would have showed him the way. And he is doing it with his own flair.
 
 Voting people in and out is a dedicated thing of a politician. People will be spending
more time forming alliances and working deal then AGI. And it gets really bad bigger
the group.
 I am not a dedicated politician. I am a focused on seeking the truth of conscious machines. 
 Politician will throw away the truth or sell it or give away to stay in power. Like the atomic
bomb.



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LOCKSUIT

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Re: the Group
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2017, 02:07:24 pm »
I'm not even following that politic way keghn...um.....we don't have to follow like that.

It'll just be a group that makes progress. Shares ideas. Talks.

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Zero

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Re: the Group
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2017, 02:32:25 pm »
keghn, I know exactly what you mean. The very system of the Group, the democratic process, is precisely made to wipe this politician problem out of the equation. The system is non questionnable. Every member has 1 voice, there are no super-member, admin, or whatever. Just members. So: no politics. Just work = post an RFD, vote, post another RFD, think, vote, implement things, do our best, and do it again. Be a part of it, keghn, and if at some point you don't like it anymore, well, we'll still be friends on this forum!

LOCKSUIT, the other forumers here will speak for themselves, if they want to. Maybe some of them want in, and some don't. They're welcome. I'm happy to see that you're in! You need to become a coder. Pick a language, download an ebook, and work on it! I would suggest Javascript (very easy, present everywhere, sometimes it's a strange language), Perl (good at handling text, easy language), Python (very clean, large ecosystem), or Ruby (clever language, really). Lisp and Scheme are maybe unusual, maybe study them later. Prolog is interesting, but see it later. There are tons of languages out there.

Our first job is to find 17 other coders to join us. We really need to reach a "critical mass" of 20 coders before we start. Then, others will join. 30. 50.

EDIT: Oh and... Korrelan is cool. He's got a beowulf.  8)

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: the Group
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2017, 02:52:02 pm »
What is this "beowulf" korrelan has guys? You mean those giant brain things he makes now and then? Or his pc? Or his business? Or his ecosystem?

Do I have to become a coder to join? I already read and understood all of C++ in a few days and wrote a "English Explanation" down if I ever forget, and probably have now, but there was more gruesomeness than that, and I dropped it man. For example OpenCV, other tools, libs, call names for the real/virtual robot body. Coders go through hell learning it, because it is made sloppy. I don't want to/can't go there. So, I'll use others who can code. Me (AI) decided this because I can see/feel that it will work me to the ground AND take years = not good.

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Zero

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Re: the Group
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2017, 03:19:14 pm »
A Beowulf? Haa, that's a good question. Read this.

Learning programming won't take years. It takes weeks.

You cannot join in without being a coder. Make a simple "Hello what's your name" program in your programming language of choice, show the source code, and you're in!


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keghn

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Re: the Group
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2017, 03:28:34 pm »
 I believe in the free market. Does not have to use  money. You have a idea that is different
than mine and it is just as good, or i if feel it is. Then a trade can happen. If you give
away my work then i will take credit for your work and say it is mine, then have
nothing to do with you.
 On the other hand, if dealing between members is honest, over the years, then
this would be A consortium i would like to be apart of.
 

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Zero

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Re: the Group
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2017, 03:37:50 pm »
Sorry I don't understand your input.

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: the Group
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2017, 03:48:43 pm »
Honestly I don't care to take credit. I want AI built. I want to seed my AI. The only reason I'd like credit is so I have power to move others. Btw everything online should be free ex. itune music/3D models. The AIs wouldn't make emselves pay for using it. And no one has credit/copyright either ex. Lady Gaga's song Poker Face is NOT her song, it's all particles, the song is just a product.

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Zero

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Re: the Group
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2017, 03:56:22 pm »
Ok, but why are you talking about credit?

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: the Group
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2017, 03:58:33 pm »
Because of what Keghn said:

"I believe in the free market. Does not have to use  money. You have a idea that is different
than mine and it is just as good, or i if feel it is. Then a trade can happen. If you give
away my work then i will take credit for your work and say it is mine, then have
nothing to do with you.
 On the other hand, if dealing between members is honest, over the years, then
this would be A consortium i would like to be apart of."

 


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