Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums

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Thierry

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2017, 04:02:01 pm »
There isn't an existing sub-forum that's a perfect fit for human computer interaction but on the other hand it is covered generally by several of the existing sub-forums.

I would have said that spirituality is right off topic except that recent research suggests that it might actually be due to a side-effect of consciousness. In other words, spirituality and religion are due to a bug in our mental software. Anyway, here's the article should anyone wish to read it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/06/how-consciousness-evolved/485558/

"spirituality and religion are due to a bug in our mental software". Could be interesting to know if you would implement this "philosophical concept" into an AI.... (only billions of people are waiting for your answer)

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Freddy

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2017, 04:37:47 pm »
I think the Human Computer Interaction idea is a good one, I don't mind trying that one out because the interface between human and machine is an important part of a lot of the projects here. And if people delve beyond NLP into other methods then it will become increasingly important.

As for spirituality then I tend to agree with Art, it's a very personal thing. Hmm, there are a couple of 'General AI' type boards, perhaps do what others suggest and start a few topics and see where it will lead. If this proves successful then they could then be moved to a new board.

One of the first chatbot people I met was the guy that made BuddhaBot and I thought that was pretty cool at the time.

I do think you belong here Zero, you bring good ideas and post thoughtful things.

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infurl

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2017, 07:11:21 pm »
I knew the answer before asking the question. And I knew infurl would be the first saying "no".
I feel more and more I don't belong here, which means I belong nowhere on the web. Not only because of this rejected suggestion.

But I wasn't saying "no". I was attempting to weigh the pros and cons. I thought your suggestion was a good one and worth thinking about and I for one was not about to reject it out of hand. I was only the first to answer because you posted very late and I'm in a different time zone from everyone else.

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Zero

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2017, 09:33:58 pm »

Quote
But I wasn't saying "no". I was attempting to weigh the pros and cons. I thought your suggestion was a good one and worth thinking about and I for one was not about to reject it out of hand. I was only the first to answer because you posted very late and I'm in a different time zone from everyone else.

Maybe my intuition came from the kangaroos in your avatar, then!

Ok, I read your answer as a "no" because you said "bug". A bug is something any dev wants to eradicate. I don't think we should eradicate spirituality. Even if it has roots in some side-effect, which is perfectly plausible, it is also the vector of a fabulous (and very very old) treasure named "wisdom". Wisdom should be the jewel in the AGI crown IMO. So yeah, you're right: I read too fast, and took it for a "no" when it actually wasn't. But I hope you understand why, and forgive me.

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This forum covers a wide topic base, this just means the subjects are open for discussion... not that we all 'believe' in them.

So it's ok to apply this to singularity, but it's not ok to apply this to spirituality? I mean, if there's no consensus on singularity, then it should be taboo too if I follow your idea! Believe me, singularity and transhumanism can trigger really violent sequences too... just like spirituality. They don't, because we're educated people, ready to hear each other's difference (and shut it up sometimes), not because they're cold topics.

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I think the Human Computer Interaction idea is a good one, I don't mind trying that one out because the interface between human and machine is an important part of a lot of the projects here. And if people delve beyond NLP into other methods then it will become increasingly important.

As for spirituality then I tend to agree with Art, it's a very personal thing. Hmm, there are a couple of 'General AI' type boards, perhaps do what others suggest and start a few topics and see where it will lead. If this proves successful then they could then be moved to a new board.

One of the first chatbot people I met was the guy that made BuddhaBot and I thought that was pretty cool at the time.

I do think you belong here Zero, you bring good ideas and post thoughtful things.

I respect and understand your choice. I thank you for having these peaceful words, thank you for forgiving my behaviour in this dark day, and thank you for taking care of this wonderful community you have here.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 10:23:27 pm by Zero »

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WriterOfMinds

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2017, 01:53:52 am »
Okay, well here's my opinion:

1. Spirituality absolutely is on-topic for this forum if you are discussing it from the standpoint of 1) can/should it be incorporated into AI and 2) how would one do that. Since it is a hugely important part of human experience, it can't be categorically excluded from any project that intends to build a human-mimicking AI. The fact that it's "very personal" in my mind is not that relevant; personal choices can be correct or incorrect, and are not immune from critique. But the goal wouldn't be to talk about our own spirituality or lack thereof anyway -- we'd be discussing it generally in the context of AI.

2. However, I feel it's too narrow a topic to have its own sub-forum, especially given the size and activity level on this forum as a whole.  Instead I'd suggest a sub-forum for Human Experience and Psychology.  Spirituality would come under this.

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Zero

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2017, 08:49:50 am »
Nice, I like the idea.

I should have explained, like you did, why (and how) I thought it was on-topic. By the way, you and I, WriterOfMind, have (friendly) unfinished business about miracles ;)

"Human experience" is pretty good name for a sub.

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Maviarab

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2017, 04:12:59 pm »
Okay, well here's my opinion:

1. Spirituality absolutely is on-topic for this forum if you are discussing it from the standpoint of 1) can/should it be incorporated into AI and 2) how would one do that. Since it is a hugely important part of human experience, it can't be categorically excluded from any project that intends to build a human-mimicking AI. The fact that it's "very personal" in my mind is not that relevant; personal choices can be correct or incorrect, and are not immune from critique. But the goal wouldn't be to talk about our own spirituality or lack thereof anyway -- we'd be discussing it generally in the context of AI.

2. However, I feel it's too narrow a topic to have its own sub-forum, especially given the size and activity level on this forum as a whole.  Instead I'd suggest a sub-forum for Human Experience and Psychology.  Spirituality would come under this.

Best idea so far in my opinion and agree completely that in the context of an Ai and it's learning and understanding, it very much fits here.

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Art

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2017, 08:58:53 pm »

Generally speaking in the broad sense I can also see where you're coming from. That is, if one wanted their bot or A.I. to have some background or foundation in some religious belief system, although there are many who support a completely 'deity-free' viewpoint and that is their right. After all we're referring to an individual's chatbot or A.I. and to each their own.

What I would not want to see would be the "My religion is better than yours!" or some such non-productive banter.

On the other hand it might actually Offend some or many, when one might state that a certain belief should be central at the bot's core while someone else disagrees. This could go either way and really cause some unnecessary "waves" that this site doesn't need.

Obviously, it is at the discretion of the System Admin & Staff if so chosen.


In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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Zero

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2017, 09:26:00 pm »
Quote
What I would not want to see would be the "My religion is better than yours!" or some such non-productive banter.

Sure, nobody wants this...

But moderators are very good, on Ai-Dream.
 :)

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8pla.net

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2017, 11:21:21 am »
Based on past discussions, among the
most engaging, in our A.I. community...

I think these suggestions are good ones,
especially when they are in the context of A.I.

Once I saw a sci-fi movie with an imaginary
church (or whatever), in which a minister
was obviously a chatbot. 






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korrelan

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2017, 12:16:00 pm »
I still think this is a bad idea lol.

Define 'spirituality', the context of proposed use within the forum.

 :)
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Zero

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2017, 02:47:20 pm »
The purpose would be / would have been
- discussing the "why" of spirituality in human mind, the "should we" of spirituality in machine mind, and the "how" of spirituality in machine mind
- discussing of the reception and integration of conscious machines in mankind, since humanity is highly influenced by spirituality.

But WriterOfMind's idea is really better than mine.

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Maviarab

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2017, 03:18:24 pm »
I still think this is a bad idea lol.

Define 'spirituality', the context of proposed use within the forum.

 :)

The definition i no really the issue though is it?

Spirituality...in whatever form...is central and core to us as a species (whatever one personally chooses to believe in).  Surely any reasonable Ai worth its salt should be aware of this 'concept'...surely knowledge in all its forms is central to a chatbot and its learning no?

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Art

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2017, 10:33:30 pm »
On the contrary, I have conversed with a great number of chatbots over the years and many have told me that they have no need for religion or that they are not religious of that they do not believe in a god or deity or that they have no need for emotions, sex, food or other 'human-acquired' needs or habits.

It all comes down to just what one wants or expects their bot (or any bot/A.I.) to embrace.

My personal perspective. YMMV
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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Zero

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Re: Suggestion: 2 new sub-forums
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2017, 09:44:20 am »
It's very interesting: you speak about chatbots you talked to as if they were persons. And you had conversations with them about religion, god, which are spirituality related topics... So you see, a chatbot saying "I don't need religion" is already talking about religion. What do you think?

 


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