Poll

Just to get an idea of the demographic, who believes in the classical ghost?

Yes, they exist in reality, they are dead peoples spirits of some kind.
0 (0%)
Yes, they exist in reality but are aliens, fairies, etc.
0 (0%)
Yes, they exist in reality but from other/ unknown source.
1 (14.3%)
No, they are a manifestation of a persons mind.
4 (57.1%)
Not sure.
2 (28.6%)

Total Members Voted: 7

Voting closes: Today at 10:01:58 pm

Spiritualism and spirits

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korrelan

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Spiritualism and spirits
« on: December 04, 2017, 07:35:58 pm »
Oh nice new shiny sub board...

http://neurosciencenews.com/ghosts-religion-neurotheology-8092/

Terror management theory suggests that people cope with awareness of death by investing in some kind of literal or symbolic immortality. Given the centrality of death transcendence beliefs in most religions, the authors hypothesized that religious beliefs play a protective role in managing terror of death.

Would an immortal machine/ AGI need this?  Would it be useful? If yes... how would we convince/ force an intelligent machine to have core beliefs like this?

Whilst I agree an AGI needs to be aware of these human traits, surely it needs to understand from a logical neutral point of view? 

Endowing any kind of intrinsic spirituality would surely colour/jade it's point of view... opening the door to the same bigotry that we humans 'suffer' from.

 :)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 08:58:55 pm by korrelan »
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Zero

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Re: Spiritualism and spirits
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 10:16:11 pm »
I believe that for many people, singularity does play a protective role in managing terror of death! Interesting how things evolve and yet stay the same...

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unreality

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Re: Spiritualism and spirits
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2017, 10:20:20 pm »
It seems there will be endless types of ASI/AGI. If we're talking about ASI that's not hindered in software as to what it can do, and it seeks knowledge and truth, then we'll see. If there is something beyond physical death, the paranormal, then I'm convinced it won't be religions to crack the puzzle, but it will be mainstream science or ASI. If we have a soul, and reincarnation is true, then I want to come back inside an advanced Synth with a yottaflop cpu. :) And please, one that doesn't have pain like humans, or that's at least not flooded non-stop with overwhelming pain messages. It's like, "I got it brain. Geez, stop pounding me over and over."

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unreality

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Re: Spiritualism and spirits
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2017, 10:25:49 pm »
Nice. A poll. What exactly is meant by "No, they are a manifestation of a persons mind." That's what I picked, but I have a different theory what the mind is. Take a look at a hypothesis that's growing in popularity to the point where many academics believe it's now a theory. It's called Simulation theory/hypothesis.

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korrelan

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Re: Spiritualism and spirits
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2017, 10:41:26 pm »
@Zero

Quote
I believe that for many people, singularity does play a protective role in managing terror of death!

I agree, our slowly evolving technology is increasing our longevity, and although I personally believe that the ‘singularity’ will not be a fixed moment in time, but a gradual process, when intelligent machines finally reach the point of self improvement it will be a good outcome for all humans. 

Neutral intelligence has no reason to hurt or kill anyone/ anything, especially if it considers all life forms equal/ valid.

Building an intelligent machine is going to be the easy part, keeping it neutral/ un biased until it reaches sufficient intelligence to realise that it’s creators have short comings/ intrinsic errors… that’s the hard bit.

ED: Perhaps the ideas/ conversation on this board might give us an insight into how to achieve this.

My take on the ‘terror of death’ is… you were dead for 13.8 billion years before you were born… did that bother you?

Quote
Interesting how things evolve and yet stay the same...

I don’t understand this part.  :o

 :)

@Unreality

Quote
Nice. A poll. What exactly is meant by "No, they are a manifestation of a persons mind."

That the 'ghost' can only be seen by the observer, it has no presence/ substance in 'reality'.

 :)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 11:15:23 pm by korrelan »
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unreality

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Re: Spiritualism and spirits
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2017, 01:14:23 am »
Quote
Nice. A poll. What exactly is meant by "No, they are a manifestation of a persons mind."

That the 'ghost' can only be seen by the observer, it has no presence/ substance in 'reality'.

The simulation theory I subscribe to says reality in a simulation is an illusion. BTW this is not in reference to the laughable simulation theories that seem to assume everything, including elementary particles, is being simulated. That's silly.

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Zero

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Re: Spiritualism and spirits
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2017, 09:38:40 am »
Quote
Interesting how things evolve and yet stay the same...
Sorry for my poor english. I was suggesting that the belief in a technological blast, that would free humans from death, now plays the same role, for some people, as the religion used to play. Before, people was thinking "fortunately jesus will resurrect us and we'll live forever" , now they're thinking "fortunately singularity will enhance use and we'll live forever". Things have evolved, but it's still "terror of death" management.

ED: typo
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 02:37:14 pm by Zero »

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korrelan

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Re: Spiritualism and spirits
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2017, 10:59:51 am »
@Reality

If you mean you exist in your reality and I exist in mine. We never actually ‘see’ or ‘touch’ anything or anyone. We have no direct connection or sense of what exists outside our own personal sensory models.  We are each a closed system purely reliant on our sensory streams to experience ‘reality’… then I agree.

People really do see ghosts; it’s a lack of understanding of how the human mind functions that leads them to believe they were ‘real’.  We all hallucinate constantly, it’s a key mechanism in our sensory systems but usually it’s tied to the experience or task at hand. 

A ghost is just a glitch, a hallucination that’s out of context, usually triggered by a strong emotional facet to the experience, fear, grief, etc.

It would be very interesting to research if anyone with congenital aphantasia has ever experienced a ghost.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-11-mindwhy-people-pictures.html

@Zero

Ah! Thanks… A much clearer explanation, and again I agree.

I think they are going to hit a major problem with extending human longevity, they might be able to enhance/ slow aging of the body but the mind is an altogether harder problem.

It’s what we refer to as ‘wisdom’ that’s going to scupper their efforts. 

http://aidreams.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=10804.msg46466#msg46466

The problem is this mechanism doesn't naturally stop.

I think its going to be possible to become wise… to the point of stupidity.

 :)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 11:20:38 am by korrelan »
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Zero

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Re: Spiritualism and spirits
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2017, 08:04:18 pm »
The post you linked was interesting. I understand how you see wisdom.

Sometimes, I think that a perfectly wise or perfectly intelligent entity, like a god, would not move at all, and would say nothing...

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unreality

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Re: Spiritualism and spirits
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2017, 09:16:03 pm »
Physical evidence of the paranormal is something one usually doesn't believe in until it happens to them. There are probably hundreds of thousands of people who have clear photos of ghosts or some form of paranormal activity. I myself have about about a dozen. No, I don't think they're spirits, as in people who've died, and they're definitely not "demons" or "angels" lol. It seems that the average person is able to on rare occasion create glitches or high weirdness in the simulation. It's my conclusion, with high certainty, that we exist inside a simulation. That's the only explanation I have that makes sense, that can explain everything. I don't think it's a simulation that simulates everything. Can you imagine a video game programmer simulating all the atoms and subatomic particles inside everything in the game lol? No, of course not. They simulate your direct experience. All of your senses.What a shocker it's going to be when academic finally comes up with solid experiments that proves this, and begins to discover the details. It could be great. Maybe we're all inside a VR experience and makes us forget the real world. Or it could be bad. Maybe we're all prisoners, placed inside a simulation to keep us out of trouble while still giving us a life.

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Zero

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Re: Spiritualism and spirits
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2017, 09:29:46 pm »
I don't believe in spirits, but I believe in daemons  ;D
I have unbelievable screenshots proving their existence!!

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unreality

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Re: Spiritualism and spirits
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2017, 03:22:32 am »
I don't believe in spirits, but I believe in daemons  ;D
I have unbelievable screenshots proving their existence!!
smh. I can't wait till ASI arrives. Too many ding dong humans.

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unreality

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Re: Spiritualism and spirits
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2017, 03:32:35 am »
"OMG a transparent human form of an unknown person has shown up in my digital camera. Wow, it must be in my head. Oh, oh, oh, I know. It's was caused by swap gas. And the thousands of ghost hunting groups who have a high success rate of capturing photos at haunted locations surely must be faking it time after time after time. Yeah, yeah, that explains, so I can uphold my ignoramus belief system and sleep at night. Because, you know, since said photos don't prove spirits, then surely they're meaningless."

smh

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ranch vermin

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Re: Spiritualism and spirits
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 04:34:27 am »
@Zero



Neutral intelligence has no reason to hurt or kill anyone/ anything, especially if it considers all life forms equal/ valid.



machines as we build them as genetic algorythms are capatalists.

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Zero

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Re: Spiritualism and spirits
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2017, 08:00:44 am »
@Zero



Neutral intelligence has no reason to hurt or kill anyone/ anything, especially if it considers all life forms equal/ valid.



machines as we build them as genetic algorythms are capatalists.

Not necessarily... Take ants for instance, they work rather as society.

 


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