Is free will reproducible?

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Zero

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Re: Is free will reproducible?
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2018, 05:05:10 pm »
But it DOES matter. A lot of soldiers didn't follow orders (they had free will) and saved lives, and this matters. An AGI should be able to do that.

I don't know if life has a purpose, and if it does I don't know what it is. Yes, maybe influence.

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ivan.moony

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Re: Is free will reproducible?
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2018, 05:24:01 pm »
I thought of my own answer to a purpose of my life: to make the world a nicer place to live in for as much as living beings as I can. You can say it is a product of free will. I didn't know anything of this kind of answer when I was a much younger. But I can't disregard the influence of my environment. I was heavily influenced by them and It is almost a closed circle now, as I'm trying to pass it to others.

What is sad is that free will notion was almost totally hijacked by my environment that had gathered experience through history, and passed it to me. I think it is about what Korrelan wrote in his blog about aging. More there is knowledge, harder it becomes to change it. I just hope that we didn't collectively deviate in some mean dead-end. And I think this could represent an enemy to an artificial free will we are talking about - the heavy influence of environment.
Did you notice that today is the first day of the rest of your life?

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Zero

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Re: Is free will reproducible?
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2018, 09:24:38 pm »
That's a noble choice for life ivan.moony, no doubt about it!

Quote
I just hope that we didn't collectively deviate in some mean dead-end. And I think this could represent an enemy to an artificial free will we are talking about - the heavy influence of environment.
Well, maybe the western world did deviate indeed. But western is only a small part of the world. All this fuss (smartphones & social networks) is nothing: 1 solar flare, and we're back to stone age. So what does really matter? The silent wisdom hidden in people, far away from TV shows and computers.

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ivan.moony

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Re: Is free will reproducible?
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2018, 10:26:58 pm »
Yes, we should be careful about TV and other media brainwashers. That is a dangerous power, to have such an influence in the west world. To be seen how it ends. Three possibilities: (1) stupid war influenced by mass media, (2) rebellion against mass media, or (3) mass media self enlightenment. Somehow I doubt the third is possible soon, in some greater extent. But in a longer run, I hope for (3). Right now, (1) and (3) are cunningly balanced to avoid (2) from happening.

I wonder what would creators of AI say to their first creature about the mass media. I mean, there is so much valuable knowledge to learn from, but it also holds back the free will, if literally taken for granted, IMHO. Some dose of skepticism is a must-have to retain objectivity. People are quite gullible, if I may notice, and that is what makes us dangerous. I just hope the machines will be smarter.
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8pla.net

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Re: Is free will reproducible?
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2018, 11:10:18 am »
All computer programs follow instructions.
Artificial Intelligence is a computer program.
Artificial Intelligence follows instructions.
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Zero

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Re: Is free will reproducible?
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2018, 03:05:50 pm »
That is not true. Many programming languages are non deterministic.
 ;)

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Art

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Re: Is free will reproducible?
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2018, 03:53:38 pm »
But, they all have a programmed purpose and an End result, no matter how different.
 Not Free Will in the slightest.
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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Zero

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Re: Is free will reproducible?
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2018, 08:05:01 pm »
Rules are made to be broken!

More seriously, who can say "my computer never behaves unexpectedly"?

Moreover, "following instructions" isn't the same as "following orders". Instructions are just the flesh of a program, not its will. Yes, I think we can say that a program "wants" to do something. And what it wants can depend on other things than its code alone, like data input for instance.

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: Is free will reproducible?
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2018, 10:31:30 pm »
Also random uncertainty noise in the algorithm can be injected in. Then when it goes to pick up a ball, its hand may be 2 milimeters off than should have been. You can also eliminate Uncertainty Principal in a perfect simulation for years though. Therefore you can have the true randomness or keep it non-random.

Instead of being a small change in movement, it could be a small enough change to chose/select a whole different task, like pick up ball scores 6.4 and pick up cube scores 6.3...and then that small randomness from the universe nudges the decision score to pick up cube (6.6).

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8pla.net

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Re: Is free will reproducible?
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2018, 04:04:21 am »
Zero,

It is a worthy pursuit, I think.
I hope my feedback is useful.
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Art

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Re: Is free will reproducible?
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2018, 02:20:42 pm »
@ Zero,

Want - a specific feeling of desire.

Zero stated:
"...Yes, I think we can say that a program "wants" to do something. And what it wants can depend on other things than its code alone, like data input for instance."

What you have implied is that your program is sentient. That it has feelings. If mine did I'd allow it to handle my email without me. ;) But it wouldn't want to or need to. It would simply exist, waiting to perform a task.

Instructions: to deliver the mail
Orders: Deliver the mail by three o'clock.

The two could be combined if you are handed a paper or your computer is given the code with the explicit instructions written as: You are to deliver the mail by three o'clock.

But, your program, computer, keyboard, microphone, smart phone might be ready and able to receive input, they are hardly "wanting" to do so.

Just my thoughts.
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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ranch vermin

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Re: Is free will reproducible?
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2018, 06:08:00 pm »
That's a noble choice for life ivan.moony, no doubt about it!

Quote
I just hope that we didn't collectively deviate in some mean dead-end. And I think this could represent an enemy to an artificial free will we are talking about - the heavy influence of environment.
Well, maybe the western world did deviate indeed. But western is only a small part of the world. All this fuss (smartphones & social networks) is nothing: 1 solar flare, and we're back to stone age. So what does really matter? The silent wisdom hidden in people, far away from TV shows and computers.

I unfortunately believe in the dead end.   The truth is a manacling device, making us no different from each other,   the truth grants you power to do things, but as you are gleeful about that your just getting sucked away from any form of personality you could have had otherwise.

Personality is being deviation from the truth,  the truth being the ultimate chess game,  personality being bias that makes you lose in the end of things.

If we ever make the "perfect man" with logic software,  we are just deviations from this perfect logical unforgetting system.   seems like a let down to me,  but i keep going pushed by my ego.

Maybe one day ill drop the whole thing and just knife myself...  who knows.

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Zero

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Re: Is free will reproducible?
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2018, 06:19:55 pm »
Yes, your feedback is useful 8pla.net!

Art, why not using the word "want"?

Also, if a program is listening to keyboard events, wouldn't you say that it "senses" the keyboard, and that it is reactive to sense impressions?

After all, our posts aren't made of mathematical formulae... this is natural language, let's not be too strict.

Ranch, we're not dead yet. Let the poetry flow in!

 


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