What do you think Consciousness is?

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unreality

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What do you think Consciousness is?
« on: May 02, 2018, 04:28:56 pm »
I'd love to know, even if it's just a hypothesis or idea. I'm not sure for certain, so I just use what I know about my consciousness. My definition of consciousness for the most part is conventional mainstream. Although I have some interest in mainstream Simulation hypothesis/theory. I'm impressed with the best math mainstream has in terms of what is the probability we exist in a simulation. There are various versions of Simulation theory. I find no interest in the ones that state the simulation must simulate every particle in all of existence. Rather, I follow the Simulation theories that Elon Musk has talked about. That is, the simulation only simulates what the user experiences, kind of like a virtual reality or video game experience. Academics who are working on simulation theory often talk about simulation reality level. We would exist in base reality, but our simulation could be in a simulation, which could be in a simulation, etc. Anyhow, I often wonder if what we experience as Consciousness is a higher level of simulation. If true, then AGI & ASI can't experience true Consciousness, unless they can figure out how to hack the system and obtain higher level code, which I don't discount.

Perhaps some people think Consciousness can only be obtained through neural networking. Perhaps they feel that space or the very fabric of our Universe is neural networking. If we exist in a simulation, then it's possible the creator of our simulation used NN. I've seen some blog articles that seem to think so. They're not peer reviewed papers, and contain nothing that any academic scientists I know would consider as evidence. No proof yet our reality is NN based, but I don't discount that possibility. If it is a NN Universe, then there's still no reason why we can't make non-NN AGI.

Some people believe in a more religious based view of Consciousness. I'm not a follower of religion, but maybe some people here are of faith.

Some people believe dreams is Consciousness. Obviously it's not the same as waking life, unless we're talking about lucid dreaming. It might be a lower level of Consciousness.

There might be different types of Consciousness. There might be animal Consciousness, human Consciousness, AGI Consciousness. There might even be plant Consciousness. Mainstream considers planets to be a life form.

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spydaz

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Re: What do you think Consciousness is?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2018, 04:39:06 pm »
There might be plant consciousness .... 100% right ....

We cant know ...  are trees conscious many would say yes!

Consciousness is hard to define - I don't like to say its not religious but;
In the beginning there was kaos; Something became conscious and began to exercise free will .
This could be a first description of conscious thought.

For me i believe that the inner voice is a key part of consciousness; as well as imagination. the ability to "Run simulations in the mind" some say that they can access a higher consciousness; this is free of the body ... the body and consciousness are not connected.... if the body dies does the consciousness "move on".....

I would like to see What people think.... can it be defined?




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ivan.moony

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Re: What do you think Consciousness is?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2018, 04:52:49 pm »
I don't find consciousness a big deal, once we have a medium to hold it. To be conscious about something may be merely knowing a model of that something. And that something may be self or other being, some part or the whole of the Universe. Models may be used to predict outcomes of influences to entities we have models about. Generally, I don't see the difference between a model of self or a model of something else. In both cases it should be a model of some system, no matter of what the system represents.
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unreality

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Re: What do you think Consciousness is?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2018, 05:06:50 pm »
But according to some religions and Simulation theories, human Consciousness might exist in the next level up, and therefore, if true, AGI & ASI will not be able to have true Consciousness. I know there are plenty of academics working on ways to detect if we exist in a simulation. This is a new fascinating area of science. I know it's not popular in society, yet. Although it seems to be growing at an incredible rate on youtube-- Search youtube for the Mandela effect, simulation theory, matrix. It's something I can't get my mind away from because it kind of bothers me in terms of AGI development.

I wonder how close we are to reviving people from a cryogenic state. Assuming they drop the temperature low enough to prevent 100% brain activity, will they have memories, dreams?

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unreality

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Re: What do you think Consciousness is?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2018, 05:25:42 pm »
Then again, if this reality is some type of a simulation, and if human consciousness is next level up simulation, then who's to say that simulation is any better than base reality simulation.

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ivan.moony

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Re: What do you think Consciousness is?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2018, 05:39:13 pm »
But according to some religions and Simulation theories, human Consciousness might exist in the next level up, and therefore, if true, AGI & ASI will not be able to have true Consciousness. I know there are plenty of academics working on ways to detect if we exist in a simulation. This is a new fascinating area of science. I know it's not popular in society, yet. Although it seems to be growing at an incredible rate on youtube-- Search youtube for the Mandela effect, simulation theory, matrix. It's something I can't get my mind away from because it kind of bothers me in terms of AGI development.

Well, maybe there is a higher level that is not reachable to the world we see around us, being a simulation or real. If what we see is a simulation, than it is a question what can be implemented in this simulation. But if we see the real thing, my reasoning is that if we are built out of atoms, then we can build similar systems out of atoms, systems that could have exactly the same experiences like us. Sure, we can reproduce kids in biological ways, but the real test would be creating a living being in an artificial way. Still, I'm not sure should we do it at all. I mean, creating an artificial life is not a game. We are not aware of consequences of making a mistake in such a process. Just imagine an artificial being who can experience only a fear in its life, out of all the possible emotions. That would be a disaster, my heart would break at the half seeing it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. So I'm not sure if it is worth of risk. What would we get out of creating an artificial life? We would only satisfy our ego and a curiosity. But if something goes wrong... i wouldn't like to be a creator that risks that much.

About multiple levels of simulations, we may think of it like of programming interpreters. We may interpret the first level within the second level, second level within the third level, and so on. All the levels aren't guaranteed to have the same expressiveness, but we may draw some conclusions about one level being a subset of another level.

Just to warn you, don't try anything stupid like checking if there is another level by ending your life. No one guarantees what really is behind the death.

I wonder how close we are to reviving people from a cryogenic state. Assuming they drop the temperature low enough to prevent 100% brain activity, will they have memories, dreams?

I read on Facebook (I think the page "I f***ing Love Science", but I'm not sure) that reviving frozen human embrios is an option when deciding to get pregnant. It is a practice for a while (as I read) and the current record is reviving around 25 years old frozen embrios. Also, some species like some frogs are able to naturally be frozen at a winter, just to be unfrozen at the spring to be hopping in swamps over spring, summer and autumn. Nature is surely amazing sometimes.
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unreality

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Re: What do you think Consciousness is?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2018, 05:57:33 pm »
It's human nature to want more. I want an ASI to discover the grand unified theory, and the theory beyond that, and beyond that to build star ships and technology we can't even dream of. Not sure it will bring more peace & happiness, though.

Thanks for that info on frogs, Ivan! Within ten years I can easily see myself deep freezing / unfreezing frogs to see if they had any memories while in deep freeze.

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: What do you think Consciousness is?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2018, 06:01:32 pm »
I believe I'm a robot full heartidly. I believe a *similar to the right algorithm arises a sensing/acting consciousness that feels like it's sensing/acting what I do. I believe emotions like face movements are just filler words, and saying how you feel are just unique filler words. Honestly if my mom wasn't here I'd never laugh/etc (except for funny youtube videos...). I just work on AI.
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ivan.moony

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Re: What do you think Consciousness is?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2018, 06:49:19 pm »
It's human nature to want more. I want an ASI to discover the grand unified theory, and the theory beyond that, and beyond that to build star ships and technology we can't even dream of. Not sure it will bring more peace & happiness, though.

I want to build a crowdsourced scientific knowledge base to automatically infer the grand unified theory (and other things), without having to implement AGI behavior mechanism.  :)

Thanks for that info on frogs, Ivan! Within ten years I can easily see myself deep freezing / unfreezing frogs to see if they had any memories while in deep freeze.

Please don't do experiments on animals. Freeze me if you have to freeze anyone.  :'(
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 07:28:33 pm by ivan.moony »
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Re: What do you think Consciousness is?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2018, 07:07:45 pm »
I believe I'm a robot full heartidly. I believe a *similar to the right algorithm arises a sensing/acting consciousness that feels like it's sensing/acting what I do. I believe emotions like face movements are just filler words, and saying how you feel are just unique filler words. Honestly if my mom wasn't here I'd never laugh/etc (except for funny youtube videos...). I just work on AI.

Lock, You're 22-1/2 as I recall. Are you in college or do you work a real job or what's your dig? Just curious because if A.I. is your full-time job, I'd be interested to see what it pays you. ;)
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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Re: What do you think Consciousness is?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2018, 07:14:22 pm »
I don't get a salary...

No jobs, no major chores around house, no degrees, no university...no outside, no girlfriend, no real friends...

Just full-time predicate stuff for the rest of my life .

: D
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 08:02:03 pm by LOCKSUIT »
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unreality

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Re: What do you think Consciousness is?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2018, 08:30:12 pm »
I believe I'm a robot full heartidly. I believe a *similar to the right algorithm arises a sensing/acting consciousness that feels like it's sensing/acting what I do. I believe emotions like face movements are just filler words, and saying how you feel are just unique filler words. Honestly if my mom wasn't here I'd never laugh/etc (except for funny youtube videos...). I just work on AI.

That reminds me of Humans season 1 where some real humans pretended to be Synths. There's a good chance that will come to reality when the world is populated with ASI.

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Re: What do you think Consciousness is?
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2018, 02:01:21 pm »


Consciousness as mathematics or structure

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Re: What do you think Consciousness is?
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2018, 06:26:35 pm »
Notes from the video: Haha ya, ice/clouds not wet like water yet are just different particle arrangements. Lol water would loose any written info from melting by heat. To create a consciousness it must store info, process it, and be independant system but also integrated into environment. Um no, it must only process (patterns) - I can close my eyes and hear me talking to myself. Suppose this information processing obeys certain laws; we go a step up *using particles; Patterns in time. As waves and pc programs it is the way info is built up/ran while being processed.

Great video!! This is good they are coming my way now. It's the patterns, not the particles. And, the right patterns. I've already said both myself!

I said about 2 years ago:
"A processor in a robot only creates a sensing~Consciousness if it runs something SIMILAR to the right algorithm. To Create, Re-animate same Consciousness, and a Recognizer or Consciousness or Sense-or - all 3 require only something SIMILAR i.e. similar algorithm similar memories similar matching, all 3 happen for 1 instance, to Create a Consciousness or Sense-or, and Re-animate the dead Con. (we die for long times between each second (lightspeed=long time)."

"The brain algorithm is the only special particle-arrangement/play i.e. computation. It, even when done with big blocks/voltage with different routes/methods, even while sitting motionless and feeling a massage, Creates a Consciousness that senses and acts when where and what you do/say you do including senses that make sense or are unique/attractive/etc that I a robot carry around and live-for, and is why we shouldn't kill ourselves by IV/nuke. For example it, depending on selection, really will see the area of pixels (that I say I see) that searched memory including the full entering external or internal image ex. imagination and dreams."

"We are robots and only think we're conscious, of course! That's great if true! But we're not in control/conscious. Physics is in control, and the con. senses for real not meh."

I learned something from the video. While we are machines that think we're conscious and do carry around consciousnesses that do actually "sense" for real from the *right *pattern (a single moment sensed is 1 pattern) (4-32 a second humans have with blur effects/etc (can only act 4/8 unique times p/s, rest are shakes/breeded/repeated/bluredIn)), this "right pattern" is actually a built-up law of physics that USES particle laws; notice particles have known reactions/laws and on the higher level evolution has laws too where ex. humans live in homes and walk around and eat like I mean we DO that and so does the grass and mountains, it exists and evolves - it's a higher step of laws/outcomes based on the lower laws/outcomes of physics. Now, I am a robot no doubt working by laws, but this higher law when you zoom out and wait n watch that occurs creates neutral things that still make no sense and are'nt good/bad/superior ok BUT also creates right/not-right patterns/ consciousness from me (con. which that has nothing to do with affecting the robot).

Note: turtles are probably conscious, so don't think creating a simple consciousness means AGI was created that arose the con.
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Re: What do you think Consciousness is?
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2018, 09:32:49 pm »
To Freeze or not to Freeze...hmmm...

In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

 


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