Whats the most realistic AI you have found ?

  • 76 Replies
  • 45365 Views
*

FuzzieDice

  • Guest
Re: Whats the most realistic ai you have found ?
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2006, 12:10:06 am »
KT - In fact, I haven't seen them drink anything either. Just eat. Oddly. I can't figure out why a biological function common to most all life forms (which they are trying to emulate) is left out, when other functions such as eating, learning, using pain for coersion, death by beating of a monster, and even humping to reproduce are left in, giving the norn society a pretty human likeness. Yet using the bathroom is 'revolting'? If they were to elimiate other revolting acts, you'd see no humping, no egg-laying (the egg would just appear by magic next to the norn), no use of the word "pregnant" (ie. so-and-so is pregnant), and the norns would be very very docile, not likely to push, shove, slap, etc. It woldn't be much of a study in sociology, genetics and AI, really. I think if they want to be true to form, they should. And norns should learn hygeine, bathing, experience frustration, etc.

I think there are some "pieces" missing, so to speak, before it can fully emulate a virtual idea of life.

*

Freddy

  • Administrator
  • **********************
  • Colossus
  • *
  • 5947
  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Whats the most realistic ai you have found ?
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2006, 01:47:58 am »
I'll just chuckle quietly in the corner here.  :wink

*

FuzzieDice

  • Guest
Re: Whats the most realistic ai you have found ?
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2006, 03:59:54 am »
Sorry, I can't help it. I have a craving to swat a norn for pissing in the river, but they don't do that so I can't swat them for that... LOL!

j/k! ;)

*

Freddy

  • Administrator
  • **********************
  • Colossus
  • *
  • 5947
  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Whats the most realistic ai you have found ?
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2006, 01:21:18 pm »
btw, the add on CR1 to DS big outdoor set, has hooch or beer, but I haven't seen them boozing yet hehe

*

KnyteTrypper

  • Electric Dreamer
  • ****
  • 102
  • Onward thru the fog!
    • AI Nexus
Re: Whats the most realistic ai you have found ?
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2006, 06:05:00 pm »
The nether regions of C1 to DS is often where I put bad boys and girls who won't stop smacking their fellows around or commit other serious infractions. It's not uncommon, then, to have them find the still and stand around boozing it up and muttering about how much they dislike the hand.

*

Liam

  • Guest
Re: Whats the most realistic ai you have found ?
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2006, 08:24:20 am »
Hey people - I'm Liam, co-ordinator of the CCSF. Just thought I'd pop in and have a look round, and answer the question as to why norns aren't extremely realistic.

Firstly, and most importantly, Creatures is a children's game. It was meant for children and teens, not really for adults, which is why they are somewhat unrealistic in a lot of respects; norns don't urinate or defecate because these are considered too vulgar to be in a children's computer game.

As well as that, Creatures isn't meant to be an exact simulation of life; its partially meant to be a new form of life. They don't replicate real, living creatures exactly - nor could they, really; C1 was published as an 'artificial life simulation', the first of its kind; C2 was more of a gimmicky game for kids- cute norns, beautiful environment and the like. C3 and DS are more adult-oriented, but still retain many aspects of the childish side of the series.

If you want to see *really* childish, you should try playing Creatures Playground and Creatures Adventures. ;)

Er... FYI, norns don't 'hump'. This may have been imagined, because the way norns reproduce is by kissing... well, technically kiss-popping. Once again, for the benefit of the children, I think.


As for hygiene, bathing etc, I think this was mostly due to the fact it was not seen as a 'necessary' thing. It could certainly be done... some new genes and a bit of coding would do it, but most people find that they prefer it without the added annoyance of having to bathe their norns... ;)

Besides; the game uses 2d 'sprites' - you'd be more than tripling the scary amount of frames for each norn (the head alone is over 1000, IIRC), so making dirty norns (visually, at least) would be horribly time consuming. Not to mention impossible with the engine! ;)

There are a lot of limitations in the Creatures engine, but the coolness of Norns kind of overcomes this IMHO. :)

*

Freddy

  • Administrator
  • **********************
  • Colossus
  • *
  • 5947
  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Whats the most realistic ai you have found ?
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2006, 03:23:10 pm »
hehe, Just because you made it for children isn't going to stop me playing the game Liam  :grin  Thanks for dropping in on us and filling us in on the finer details.

It's a good move I think NOT to include too much realism or you might fall into forever having to add to the realism instead of working on the game aspects.

Some members here have already had a play with the Creatures and I am sure others or those with children ( :wink) would be interested aswell.

Good luck with and enjoy the Festival  :smiley

*

KnyteTrypper

  • Electric Dreamer
  • ****
  • 102
  • Onward thru the fog!
    • AI Nexus
Re: Whats the most realistic ai you have found ?
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2006, 01:47:24 am »
I found this Wiki article new to me at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatures_(artificial_life_program).  It's more of a history/overview article than the other Creatures wiki site, and covers and links to other articles covering the artificial life aspect of the games to a greater extent. Interesting stuff.

*

FuzzieDice

  • Guest
Re: Whats the most realistic ai you have found ?
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2006, 04:43:21 pm »
Hey people - I'm Liam, co-ordinator of the CCSF. Just thought I'd pop in and have a look round, and answer the question as to why norns aren't extremely realistic.

Firstly, and most importantly, Creatures is a children's game. It was meant for children and teens, not really for adults, which is why they are somewhat unrealistic in a lot of respects; norns don't urinate or defecate because these are considered too vulgar to be in a children's computer game.

I find that no worse than having creatures that have "sex drive" (in the game where you can control it), reproduction, the word "pregnant", laying eggs.... that's more "adult" than going to the bathroom. EVERYONE goes to the darn bathroom. Also creatures don't drink. I hate to think drinking water, fruit juice, etc. to keep hydrated is vulgar, too.

its partially meant to be a new form of life. They don't replicate real, living creatures exactly - nor could they, really;

Doesn't matter. It's the language, such as mentioning "sex drive", "pregnant", etc. Sorry, but I don't agree where one is more vulgar than the other and thus one is in and the other out. It doesn't make any sense to me.

C3 and DS are more adult-oriented, but still retain many aspects of the childish side of the series.

If you want to see *really* childish, you should try playing Creatures Playground and Creatures Adventures. ;)

Try Disney's Virtual Magic Kingdom! Not an AI life simulator but their restrictions are true to children's environment. Heck, you can't really chat there (even though provisions for it exist) because there are a lot of normal words that are censored! THAT is "childrens game".

Er... FYI, norns don't 'hump'. This may have been imagined, because the way norns reproduce is by kissing... well, technically kiss-popping. Once again, for the benefit of the children, I think.

Then my computer is up to something. I've seen them saying they are "friendly" and their "middle regions" would move back and forth. Not kidding. I've seen it happen. THAT is what I'm talking about.


As for hygiene, bathing etc, I think this was mostly due to the fact it was not seen as a 'necessary' thing. It could certainly be done... some new genes and a bit of coding would do it, but most people find that they prefer it without the added annoyance of having to bathe their norns... ;)

Cats instinctively bathe themselves. Maybe a Cat-Norn? I've seen tiger striped ones...

There are a lot of limitations in the Creatures engine, but the coolness of Norns kind of overcomes this IMHO. :)

Don't get me wrong, it's a cute game and all. But I just was wondering why some things are considered gross and other things that some parents (esp. very religious parents) would consider just plain wrong for children ARE in there. I am not religious but I've heard/read so many times where you even mention "sex" and the parents would get all upset over it and cover their kid's eyes. They don't even want the WORD anywhere near their kids! It's in the game though.

If you want to keep it kid-friendly, you may want to remove such words and replace them with maybe "So-so may lay egg" and "friendliness level" instead of "sex drive" as such.

Unless I have some old old version or something. But I did get it from the Creatures site. I don't know.

*

KnyteTrypper

  • Electric Dreamer
  • ****
  • 102
  • Onward thru the fog!
    • AI Nexus
Re: Whats the most realistic ai you have found ?
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2006, 07:10:11 pm »
Norns do drink. In the C1 to DS room there's the still, and the water pump just east of the structure. In fact, just west of the still there's even a shower, lol. There's not a separate word for drink, and all liquids are "potions," but "eat potion" is one of the things a good God hand teaches his creatures to do. Besides the hooch, there's BAWLS cola, which I assume is well-known to someone other than Americans, coffee (great for warming up cold norns), ginseng and other teas, etc. Probably there are merely licensing and trademark issues preventing Coke, Pepsi, etc. vendors from being a part of the game, too. There's calm balm to soothe the nerves of angry creatures, carrot juice, panatreea potion (a sort of vitamin drink), milk for baby norns, etc.

I think sexual vs. scatatory issues probably reflect what kids think more than what adults think. However sad a commentary it may be on our culture, our kids are thoroughly sexualized by the age of six or seven and consider it a natural and maybe even positive part of ordinary life. An inauspicious fart will still send them off blushing every time, though, lol. As I said, I inadvertently created a small firestorm of indignation by asking in a forum "Say, anyone seen a norn pee?" And it was a legitimate question, which I immediately qualified by saying I was attempting to determine if the buildup of urea, ammonia, etc. had any relationship to the ubiquitous homesickness. Liam's right, though.
No humping. What you're seeing is probably a combination or norns leaning in to kiss, then out again, or happy dancing as they kiss-pop, or both. If there are several in a group kiss-popping, it could very well be interpreted as humping, so it's an understandable but incorrect observation. Look closer.

His observation about technology issues is valid, too. For its day, the creatures game engine was perhaps one of the most advanced ever developed. But at this point it's ancient technology by computer standards, at least five or six years old. There's only so much you can do with it, and a portion of what you potentially could do might be inadvisable due to the size of the files that would be required, the expenditure of CPU, etc. If breed makers had to make two different sets of animation frames for clean vs dirty norns, for instance, probably most breeds would be fifty mb downloads instead of roughly ten for the complex ones.

Hopefully the community's dreams will come true, and creatures will generate enough interest on the part of some investor to manifest a new game with a new game engine. Then maybe we'll have norns that pee on the trees  after drinking too much beer, and need a shower when they return home from a day of happy humping.  :2funny

*

FuzzieDice

  • Guest
Re: Whats the most realistic ai you have found ?
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2006, 03:45:40 am »
I personally am not TOO worried about it. Just worried what some may think in regards to what it "looks" like vs. what it actually is, and thus what things that are allowed to "look" like in the game.

Anyhow, it sure is a far cry from the old text-based game of "life".

When I have time, I'll have to check out those drinks in the game.

*

Freddy

  • Administrator
  • **********************
  • Colossus
  • *
  • 5947
  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Whats the most realistic ai you have found ?
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2006, 01:42:24 pm »
When you're a kid, most of the time fun is more important than what is realistic.  Then when you get older its "oh, stop being so silly". lol

*

FuzzieDice

  • Guest
Re: Whats the most realistic ai you have found ?
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2006, 07:43:26 pm »
I guess in the process of trying to explain what I meant, I didn't make things too clear again. Oh well... I'll play the game whenever I have time. But now days it'll be less time for games.

Another thing I don't like is that it will not run in 32-bit color mode. I have to change my screen display to 16-bit color mode. Then change it back for other things I need to do that require 32-bit color mode. Kinda makes it a hassle to load up the game sometimes.

*

claude1961

  • Guest
Re: Whats the most realistic AI you have found ?
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2007, 08:41:47 pm »
good morning, I lost version hal5 free, and since I lost the hope of making my experiments. Since ultrahal 6 and create, it has no hope it of finding in download, hal5, then it would be nice of me helped, and of me informed, if there is a site where hal5 is still there download, thank you has all! :sad :smitten

*

Maviarab

  • Trusty Member
  • **********
  • Millennium Man
  • *
  • 1194
  • Lost in Giallo
    • The Celluloid Sage
Re: Whats the most realistic AI you have found ?
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2007, 01:44:29 pm »
Thought I would ressurect this thread with a couple of things.

1. The most realistic AI I have found. I would consider saying myself. This may sound a strange answer but my thoughts over the last few months (some quite scary) have concluded in a (matrix) type style that maybe we are really not what or who we think we are.

2. Being perhaps a little more serious, this is the greatest AI to be found at the moment. Not available yet, hoping some time later this year (but they said that last year). Take a look round the site, watch the video clips. This is the single most wanted game on my list.

www.spore.com

 


Users Online

23 Guests, 1 User
Users active in past 15 minutes:
ivan.moony
[Trusty Member]

Most Online Today: 69. Most Online Ever: 208 (August 27, 2008, 09:36:30 am)

Articles