Author Topic: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans  (Read 3610 times)

Richard

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Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« on: April 24, 2015, 06:52:13 AM »
So I felt it to be kind of important to talk about this. I know many of you are likely not too concerned of this being a reality (or maybe you are), but there are multitudes of hurdles for AI to ever replace or destroy the human race.

Lets go over some of the basic hurdles:
-AI who are made by conventional resources still need the resource manufacturers to sustain a population of readily bodied AI to fight a supposed war with humanity. Unless they could do this without being spotted or stopped, or reported on, nearly any sovereign nations military has the capacity to simply shut down a factory that produces these AI's.
-AI who are smart enough to think about killing a human, would be smart enough to know they could live on forever in a humans world, but build a virtual civilization that would nearly never be in danger (Although the creation of the virtual civilization would also depend on how much data it would take up, relative to how long it will run and how much population or content there is to maintain it.)

Now lets cover some even larger hurdles.

-Lets suppose the AI took out multiple cities, and assume they had every capability to sustain themselves, however unlikely- there is still a very large problem. Lets take this scenario specifically to the Unites States, or Russia. Most of the defence technology of each military is not connected by any sort of wifi, this includes Nuclear Silos, fortified entrances, ground vehicles, and in some cases missile systems. That being said, the Military of either country would have the upper hand in simply closing the doors to their silos and bunkers and coordinate a nuclear offensive against any encroaching AI army.

-Lets again suppose the AI took cities. But this time, they took even entire countries. What if they actually did destroy the human race? Well, it wouldn't looks so good for the AI civilization. The capabilities required to have a model of the world in good enough shape to survive it under a large amount of circumstances is a hard thing for a AI to grasp, especially by todays standards, but Imagine this around the time that quantum computers take way. Right now they are in their infancy, and at the point of the singularity (projected to be around 2030 by prominent physicists [Such as Michio Kaku]) they will still practically be taking baby steps, and although they would have the potential to allow such a large model of the world to exist for an AI, it wouldn't be there in time to catch the skynet train. It would simply be a lesser developed computer in terms of Mid to High level programming capabilities.

If there is anything to be afraid of, Its the irrational idea that there will be a skynet- A ominous rejection of Intelligent, and maybe sentient silicon beings that we may be able to make somewhere in the near future.

Art

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Re: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2015, 08:33:33 PM »
Rich,

Sky-Net or a reasonable facsimile might act as you outline but... if an A.I. or group of A.I. were to pull any of what you describe off, they would certainly have to be quite advanced. Tenfold or a hundredfold more advanced than anything we can currently put to use or imagine.

You do raise a lot of good points but somehow I feel that advanced AI's would HAVE to consider keeping a staff of humans alive in order to locate, process and convert tons of raw materials and handle the byproducts of said conversions.

Would humans become servants for the bots / A.I.? Would humans become their Pets or would we sicken them as cockroaches or other vermin sicken us? Hmmm....

There are certain things (jobs, processes, determinations, etc.) that robots / A.I. are not able to properly do (yet).
Of course since this discussion is hypothetical, in a "perfect" A.I. environment, there most likely could or would be able to handle every facet of their own existence, including realizing their own limitations and weaknesses then building even better units then themselves. This is something that is even happening in labs as we speak so it's not Sci-Fi at this point.

Lastly, I'm not totally convinced they (the A.I.) would want to eradicate all humans. For then, quite possibly as we could be viewed as a threat to their survival. For us, it is extremely difficult if not impossible for us to think with the pinpoint, calculated accuracy and logic of an advanced A.I. or it's reasoning.

Not that I want such a day to come, but it would sure be interesting to be a 3rd party observer to see how things would play out!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 12:23:48 AM by Art »
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ranch vermin

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Re: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2015, 10:02:40 PM »
a robot that engineers are trying to bring intelligence to have a huge problem with sanity, if they get there at all.  AI doesnt get much past the initial sensor, theres no depth to it.

the problem isnt the robots being in charge,  the problem is some idiot in charge of the robots, which i think are quite able with their superficial understanding to be fantastic and successful automated killing devices carrying out the war.

In that way it is definitely a huge problem!!!
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Don Patrick

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Re: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2015, 08:40:51 PM »
"Jarvis?"
"Yes, sir?"
"Take over for me for a moment, will you?"
*robot apocalypse ensues*

Seriously though, the fictional AI of Skynet was so "intelligent" that it fixed every problem it met by shooting bullets at it.
Personal project: NLP -> learning -> knowledge -> logical inference -> A.I.

Art

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Re: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2015, 11:53:46 PM »
OK Skynet yes, but you should watch iRobot. The A.I. managed a different form of take over as have many other Hollywood films.
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Don Patrick

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Re: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2015, 11:15:09 AM »
You mean "I, robot"'s Viki? Yeah, I thought it was a better scenario with the kind of logic one would expect to go wrong, and again, way too much control entrusted to the AI. What they had in common though was the contradiction of going against people's orders in order to fulfill a prior order. I considered Viki to be more intelligent than Skynet, at least.
Personal project: NLP -> learning -> knowledge -> logical inference -> A.I.

Art

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Re: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2015, 11:55:32 PM »
Bingo! Agreed!!

Now, there are articles detailing how concerned some people are after seeing the movie, "Ex Machina". Some even think there should be watchdog groups established to make sure such "creations" don't happen or if they do, there would be built-in safeguards, to prevent hostile takeovers. (stock markets anyone?).  ;)
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8pla.net

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Re: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2015, 12:58:12 AM »
I find myself enjoying what Ranch just said.   

In the future, A.I. may learn how to get humans, to replace humans.

I seem to remember a science fiction movie with that plot.
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Don Patrick

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Re: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2015, 07:06:52 AM »
By the way, does anyone else realise that Microsoft is about to put a central cloud-based AI in every home on the planet, that is literally designed to control your computer and home appliances, and updates without your knowledge?
I'm looking at you, Cortana.
Personal project: NLP -> learning -> knowledge -> logical inference -> A.I.

Art

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Re: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2015, 07:53:59 PM »
Gee, Microsoft, Google...both after us and with Linux....there's only so much time left and it will never catch up.

What will the common folk do? Choose a bandwagon? Choose a team? Choose a new planet? Hmmm....

I SO dislike the word CONTROL....
It has never turned out well for the general populace. And here we are again. Thanks Don...I think.... :-\
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8pla.net

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Re: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2015, 11:36:51 PM »
... central cloud-based AI in every home on the planet, that is literally designed to control your computer and home appliances, and updates without your knowledge?

Well, I'm on Linux.  As Art mentioned, it won't catch up any time soon.  So, the only A.I. in my home is built by me.  Ah, I shouldn't say that... My Samsung Android tablet has some impressive A.I. that came with it... 

Oh!  Just realized... For the sake of polite conversation, I may (jokingly) defend Microsoft, by saying Samsung already put pretty impressive A.I. in probably millions of homes. 

The other day, my Samsung was on the table with the cover closed.  Apparently, it secretly listened in on my conversation.  To my surprise, suddenly there was a response to the conversation using text to speech which made good sense.
 .

Thanks Don.  That was a good scoop.

« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 12:21:44 AM by 8pla.net »
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Art

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Re: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2015, 09:47:07 AM »
A couple points:

@ Don - What IF the A.I. was intelligent enough to realize that humans were concerned about them taking over SO, it grew and advanced internally without giving any indication that it was doing so to the humans?!
No one said an A.I. couldn't use subterfuge or be "sneaky" to any degree. Then when everything is in place and the timing is right (in it's estimation - which is by far better than humans), it proceeds to overtake all digital processes at once.
OR...something like that...use your imagination...Hollywood's listening (along with Google and Microsoft). ;) O0

@ 8pla*net - I have had that same experience with both my Droid phone & my Asus Tablet. On several occasions, after opening their respective protective covers, I saw textual replies / responses to something I previously said to a friend or family member and without my knowing, Google had replied!
Either it's "Google Now" command recognition feature accepts more than just "Google Now" or it's listening to everything and responding where and when needed. (we know it listens to everything but is supposed to only react to the recognition phrase of Google Now and not topics during normal conversations). At least, that's the way we were told it was going to work! Hmmm...
 :-\
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 11:22:22 PM by Art »
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Don Patrick

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Re: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2015, 11:46:01 AM »
I think I've seen a lot of discussions pass about that scenario. I would think that one doesn't have to be too intelligent to read the abundance of evidence that humans fear AI, and it would be a logical choice to "take over" the world by subtle manipulation or abiding the right time. For instance, given that AI is not bound by a mortal lifespan, it could just wait until humanity brings about its own end, and take over the world without breaking a sweat. Who knows.

But in reality I question whether this would go about unnoticed during the stage in which it hasn't yet reached flawless superintelligence. Unlike biological brains, we can literally read what's going on in an AI's mind through read-outs and displays. Except neural net AI, apparently.
Personal project: NLP -> learning -> knowledge -> logical inference -> A.I.

Art

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Re: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2015, 11:24:42 PM »
Perhaps...at least that's what the A.I. is allowing us to believe for the time being. BWWAHAHAHAA or other evil laugh....
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ranch vermin

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Re: Skynet- Why AI simply can't replace humans
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2015, 12:11:07 PM »
Robots have a real problem when it comes to keeping secrets from people, nueral net or not.  part of the reason why i dont think you should anything more than a clevor toy, not anything that had consciousness at all, even if its silly to even say you can make something conscious.
A bit from here, a bit from there, and bring it together and see the whole picture.

 

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