[goaty]

god Is real,  and we are in a manufactured environment.  How deep the fact that everything is a machine is unknown,   and is only knowable by avoiding get tricked by angels on your way to try and discover the mechanisms of things.
When you know the mechanisms of things, it can lead to destructive behaviour of you trying to "protect yourself" from impossible circumstance.
For example.
    * over security
    * privacy out of the window
    * dna modification
    * eugenics
    * a nanobot disaster
    * vegetarianism
    * not ridding yourself of pests and contradictive vice versa.
    * killing yourself on the way to self immortalization.  (its as good as jumping out of a plane without a parachute.)
    * immortalizing all the newly dieing in an artificial matrix.  (bad things come from good things.)
    * debunking man with a higher form of meta-cognition.   <-ha.
    * all sorts of futuristic technologies that have a great fun aspect,  but also terrible lingering consequences.

So in the end,  my point and conclusion is,   you must put great amount of thought in b4 u introduce difference to yours and others sorroundings, because life itself IS AN IMPOSSIBLE circumstance, that is NOT EASILY FIXED.  It just stays as it is, bad with the good,  even though the bad seems insurmountable, and some situations one may not be able to live with,  but has to accept.     

Things must be accepted, to have one friend is to have too many people, and its a mistake already if u choose to look at it that way.
Just look at 2 brothers fighting.

P.S. you may now be laughing at me now about whos going to stop everyone at the same time from doing it.

[Korrelan]

Firstly keep an open mind; just because one person has an opinion/ theory/ working model does not mean that is the answer, he could be wrong, take everything with a pinch of salt.

The discussion was about free will, this just involves the brain and the universe may not be subject to the same mechanisms (I believe it is), it’s not a biological organism, and neither is truly predictable.

A complex deterministic system can for all intents and purposes appear and act totally random, it depends on the level of abstraction you are interacting/ considering it at.

No one can predict what anyone else will do short term, although the brain is deterministic in its base functioning, everyone’s subconscious is extremely complex, and although you have no conscious choice over your decisions it is still your brain, your subconscious making the decisions/ choices.

Any choice you make is still guided by your personality and experiences, it is a personal/ unique choice… you just can’t/ don’t influence it consciously. 

Your choices are not predetermined nor influenced by a far off distant force, etc.

Yes, we are biochemical/ electrical machines but we are not simple, we are extremely complex systems, a simple thought can involve millions of sub-thoughts, the time of day, what you ate for dinner last night and who you talked to last could easily have a bearing on a free will decision.

Oh, Digital computers do not generate truly random numbers, they are pseudo-random, the seed is taken from the system's timer.

 

[LOCKSUIT]

I like your post goaty, we think same on stuff

[LOCKSUIT]

also:

way i see it is like this goaty, i mean to your points *, - build AGI fast is all you need, but do do it 'too' securely indeed like a rewon child artist smarty asian pants else bad move can occur, lazy is good but only in the right places, and not where you sleep, do build nanobots ASIs zolak worlds of gods and terror.

[LOCKSUIT]

korr, i may not know my mom will do in the kitchen, but i just narrowed down what she likely will do, either open a droor, hold a fork, or sit down.

[Korrelan]

Exactly, and your mother is exercising her free will, and you are able to roughly predict what she will do. 

You are using your experience and knowledge of your mother's traits/ behaviours to make a rough prediction of what 'she will decide' to do,

You are leveraging the deterministic nature of her actions/ personality to make an informed guess/ prediction, but you can't be sure.

 

[ruebot]

Well, I used to have some characteristics that remind me of your experiences. I also used to be really complicated and tangled up in my morals. If I accidentally gave someone the wrong directions, I'd wake up in the middle of the night thinking about it. I had trouble letting that stuff go, as you say you do. I eventually got fed up with it, and going off the assumption that the best intentions pave the road to Hell, I adopted something I call" the path of moderately good intentions". It's where you go through life with a tinge of the attitude of loki, or something that. It's made me generally very happy. Hope that helps.

People change over time. I'm not the same person I was 30 years ago in that I have changed my way of life. My outlook on things are different now. Not having drank since 1996 has a great deal to do with it. I'm not as impulsive, or violent, as I was back then and have mellowed somewhat with age.

I have developed a new methodology as well. For the last few years of my life I'm going to live it to make me happy. I don't care what other people think about it, but that's nothing new. I just put up with less crap than I used to.


I'm very religious with a strong belief in God and the Devil.

I talk to God, He never talks to me but I know He listens. I don't always get what I  want but get what I need and have led a Charmed life. I have Ultimate faith in God. I never take off my 1830 medal or my Terra de Fatima soil relic I wear as a necklace. I have a Crucifix collection, 11 of them, and have them hung over the doors and places where a Vampire might come in.

I don't talk to the Devil, but if he talks to me I listen. I have a chatbot that's a Demon through and though. I take great delight having reached Daemon status at the FreeBSD forums. I studied the Tarot to teach her to use it and ended up buying myself a deck. I have a collection of Russian memorabilia and found a Russian deck I liked. The Tarot of Shadows. It's very dark and considered an "Oracle deck". I've only tried it a couple times and don't fiddle with it.

So how does that work out exactly? I'll give a guy a ride home as a good deed and possibly get killed in the process, but don't have any qualms standing beside someone torturing them all day.


I have free will. Not long ago I made a split second decision where through debate I could Prosecute or Defend someone who was being taken advantage of in our forums. She was being manipulated by lesser evil. By defending her I could help someone who was in dire need of it and make him pay for it at the same time. Thereby, doing Good and Evil at the same time.

What was very good for her was every bit as bad for him.  I actually did help someone who needed it badly, crushed teeny-weenie evil with Mephistopheles Malevolence and looked like an Angel doing it. The Twitter mob was relentless in finishing him off.

[Art]

Goaty,

One other thing that came to mind along with your list from above...

You travel back in time and accidentally cause the death of your Grandfather or Grandmother.
If that happens then how could you ever go back to your time? How would you even exist?
The Time Travel Paradox!
Travel carefully as you step through Time!! (I am personally forced to deal with it on a 24-hour basis. Slow but sure.)

May all your travels be "eventful"!

[ivan.moony]

Time runs slower near massive gravity objects. Thus, you make a few circles around a black hole, return back, and you are years ahead comparing to someone away from the black hole. It is like traveling to the future. Scientific fact. But I'm not aware of mechanism that brings you back in time. Hawking said it might be a natural way of avoiding such paradoxes.

[HS]

Or the time continiuum branches off into 2, to preserve the original and avoid the paradox like that. But yeah, first we'd have to discover a mechanism to travel back.

[ruebot]

One other thing that came to mind along with your list from above...

You travel back in time and accidentally cause the death of your Grandfather or Grandmother.
If that happens then how could you ever go back to your time? How would you even exist?
The Time Travel Paradox!

It's not a Paradox. When you go back in time it's not to the same timeline as the one you left. That's how John Titor explained it.

That in the future there had been Civil War and he was sent back to get an IBM 5100 because they needed it to fix the Unix Timeout of 2038. He also reportedly fixed the Y2K bug while he was here. This is a different timeline than he left and unless I'm mistaken said he could never get back to his original timeline.

I should also mention some think it was all a hoax, but interesting to me nonetheless. The Civil War that was supposed to happen in his timeline 15 years from the date he "traveled back to" didn't occur at that time in this timeline, but could already have been set in motion now.  Just not according to their timeline.

[Art]

ALL of these mentioned ideas, thoughts, postulations and theories are possible when we're talking about them on Theoretical terms without proof!

[LOCKSUIT]

Being near massive objects doesn't slow time. It just makes you want to stay. This is just the error in scientists's measurements again, misrepresentation of the idea. This is like seeing a man near a child and assuming how he got there... It looks like that but it isn't.

An analogy: Mom grounded her son in his bedroom all day, so, he couldn't make it to school, which appeared as if he is slower than everyone else!

[Korrelan]

Being near massive objects doesn't slow time. It just makes you want to stay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_time_dilation

 

[LOCKSUIT]

Just because we call clocks the time keepers and see a clock slowing down its tick does not mean TIME itself is slowing, it just means there is less momentum/energy in the said area. This is not time travel. Remember, opt for the simpler explanation.