This Machine is Conscious!!!

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NoLongerActive

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2010, 09:27:00 pm »
I just thought of something today. If a person with say, a form of developmental disability that cannot answer the same IQ questions correctly, is that person then not "conscious"? And if they are not, then why do we treat them as if they are? Obviously, they are conscious and alive even if they cannot answer the IQ questions correctly.

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TrueAndroids

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2010, 01:06:04 am »
I just thought of something today. If a person with say, a form of developmental disability that cannot answer the same IQ questions correctly, is that person then not "conscious"? And if they are not, then why do we treat them as if they are? Obviously, they are conscious and alive even if they cannot answer the IQ questions correctly.

Yes good points; I see what you mean. First I would say the field's mission is to duplicate the "average human beings functionality". Now, like everything else this semantic deductive reasoning can be fully utilized, partially realized, or under-utilized. So there will be a scale of performance though all will do the performance (at some level).

Case 1. That boxer in the ring is down and Unconscious! Here we see that a person can be alive yet without any consciousness, or in an un-conscious state.

Case 2. That patient in the hospital bed is just laying there, saying nothing and not responsive, i.e., unconscious. Then suddenly his eyes open and he looks at the face staring down at him and he says "Momma!" before slipping back into unconsciousness.  In that moment we can say he was conscious for a second just by exhibiting that tiny bit of most simplistic semantic deductive reasoning. For even that simplest thought expressed is the result of semantic deductive reasoning:

T1. That object that I'm seeing is an object having visual sensations X,Y,Z
T2. Any object having visual sensations X,Y,Z, is the object Momma!
And so he says his conclusion, "Momma!"

So semantic deductive reasoning is a basic, ingrained part of our most basic, simplest thoughts.

Case 3. That patient in the bed is just laying there, completely unresponsive and saying nothing. Suddenly he babble some non-sense words "bubugoorroo durubugu" and then slips back into unconsciousness. Would we say he was truly conscious for that second. I think they might say he was semi conscious at best, or maybe attribute it to motor twitching in an unconscious state. But the doctor I don't believe would say he is conscious yet.

Interesting points to think about. Thanks!

« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 01:37:18 am by TrueAndroids »

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TrueAndroids

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2010, 01:35:13 am »
 
Thanks for answering my semi educated post TrueAndroids.

I actually do agree with your 3 levels, from what I know so far, but im no expert.
Fair enough.


I do think this:

Computers can do just about what ever we program them to do, its all maths after all and maths can be used to explain the universe and everything around us, so IMHO it must be possible to build a conscious machine if we program it correctly. Agreed.


If we take it that semantic deductive reasoning or thinking is consciousness and your machine is using semantic deductive reasoning then we must admit that there is some form of consciousness going on.

Yes! There it is! That is the heart of the matter of the case I am making.

What you have achieved is something special, that’s how I see it but would you agree with me that at the moment your machine is only conscious for a very small amount of time? May I be so bold as to answer for you  ;),, yes you do agree.

What you seem to have is the initial spark that will lead on to a full burning fire given time.

Yes absolutely, I do agree with you. The next level, once we are on the same page as to Levels 1-3, is to do precisely that - to keep this conscious spark going the same way that human life does (since our mission is to specifically create artificial human life in a new material.) In other words we will need to add some more levels to our pyramid.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 01:56:52 am by TrueAndroids »

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NoLongerActive

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2010, 02:19:57 am »
I think I'm having a hard time getting my head around the definition of "consciousness".  :D Seriously, I am at odds because I don't know how one entity can determine if someone is "conscious" or not. I think it's all a matter of perception.

For me, a part of me still doesn't want to perceive your computer and program as "conscious". I think of it as more a deductive reasoning program. A very sophisticated, well-written, and very good program overall. Maybe like someone else said - the start of something bigger. But at this point, I cannot perceive it as conscious.

On the flip side a part of me wants to perceive your computer and program as "conscious" because I believe that all complex machines exhibit some form of personality or identity in that no two are identical. For example, my car had a bit of a time getting used to me after I first got her. I had another car before that which I swear was "alive". Seriously, if I got mad at traffic, he'd trip the "Service Eng Soon" light until I apologized and then it'd go right off! In fact, this would happen any time I got upset but if I didn't but all other conditions were met, he'd not trip the light! While I don't think a refrigerator could have personality or think or exhibit a form of being alive, I do believe computers, robots and cars *could* based on their interaction with the world around them and their care takers. So yes, in that I'd consider your computer as "alive".

So you see how I am on a teeter-totter on this! I want to believe it can be alive/self-aware/conscious. Yet a more critical part of me doesn't want to set me up for a disappointment, or more likely I want to be logical and realistic. But then again, maybe my logic could be flawed.

This is the type of stuff I struggle with is the perception of "life" in a digital "entity" (i.e. computer, robot, car, etc.) I could probably go around Robin Hood's barn with this too! LOL! Maybe I'll have to work on an article/essay more updated than the one I have online when I learn more info on this.

As for your program, I am very interested in seeing how it develops. Also what other features you hope to add? Is it currently self-learning? And can it act on it's past experiences? It appears to be doing that already!

Maybe I'm just old fashioned and need to update my definitions database. ;)

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TrueAndroids

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2010, 02:58:12 am »
I think I'm having a hard time getting my head around the definition of "consciousness".  :D Seriously, I am at odds because I don't know how one entity can determine if someone is "conscious" or not. I think it's all a matter of perception.

 I want to believe it can be alive/self-aware/conscious. Yet a more critical part of me doesn't want to set me up for a disappointment, or more likely I want to be logical and realistic. But then again, maybe my logic could be flawed.

Probably the best place to begin and get settled with this is with the prior resource's definition from philosophy:

con·scious·ness  �mental faculties as characterized by thought, feelings, and volition.

So here we are focused on the mental faculty (function) of thought. I have proposed semantic deductive reasoning as an authentic specimen of this consciousness or mental faculty. Essentially this means - "have semantic understanding of what you are reasoning about". So then we see the CM Prototype (a) do deductive reasoning (b) do it semantically, so that it's actually understanding what it's thinking about and saying. If you agree with just this, then you agree with these first 3 levels then you will agree it's exhibiting machine consciousness.

So of the three you mention "alive/ self-aware / conscious" they are three separate phenomenon. Consciousness is built first as a core root function. Then will be built up on it self-awareness, or its group of personal thought/sensory memories in temporal order from the Conscious Machine's "first birthday" up to its real time current working memory thoughts. And this continues being built up, until finally creating artificial human life, with all the mental faculties of natural human life, in a humanoid robot or virtual body, in an environment, being sensed and acted on for desired goals, at the apex of the pyramid.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 03:09:34 am by TrueAndroids »

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NoLongerActive

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2010, 03:41:57 am »
Well, the thought part of the definition is there. It definitely can "think". But can it feel? How would that be possible and what would it feel? How would it know good from bad? And volition - does it want to or know to act on a situation given it's past experiences/knowledge? I think the feelings and volition part is still missing. But the thing can think! I agree there.

However, definitions are sometimes not what the dictionary says they are. I've known this in several other terms (not just AI but other things). So we don't have to regard feelings and volition to think of "consciousness".

So maybe I could sum up "consciousness" as meaning the "on" state of an entity; the ability to interact with it's surroundings (in your setup, the computer is interacting with you, the user) and learn from and form an action and/or response based on that input.

But that is very basic. By that definition, would my computer without that software would be considered "conscious"? Nope because of the "learn from" in the definition. My computer doesn't learn from me. Of course it could if it were learning things like keystrokes, or words for the speech recognition...

So I'd think that all complex machines are conscious, if using that form of reasoning.

Unconscious, BTW, I would consider the "sleep" state. It's still processing but not interacting or processing what interaction it just had.

I found some other AI notes I been working on and hope maybe to do another article soon. It deals with the computer's "universe" and how it would be perceived by the computer.

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TrueAndroids

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2010, 06:04:31 pm »
Also I wonder, what is the difference between conscious and sentient and self-aware? Or is there a difference (ie. are those terms used interchangeably)? You may have made a "conscious" machine but have you made a "sentient" machine? Or is there a difference?

I guess I'd say there is a difference as follows:

consciousness - in simplest form, mental faculty of thinking e.g. semantic deductive reasoning - semantically understanding what you are thinking about (cognitive consciousness) Also can be mental faculties of feeling and volition (affective consciousness) from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/consciousness

self awareness - in simplest form, thoughts about the agent of the thoughts

sentience - In the philosophy of consciousness, "sentience" can refer to the ability of any entity to have subjective perceptual experiences, or "qualia" from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience


« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 10:35:17 pm by TrueAndroids »

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Art

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2010, 03:00:01 am »
Machines at any hospital can display brain waves and tell / show whether a person is conscious or not.

Consciousness = aware. aware of self, surroundings or anything perceivable by any of the 5 senses.

This is from me...not some dictionary. ;)
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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NoLongerActive

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2010, 03:07:50 am »
@Art - I find your definition seems to be more in line with what I always thought "consciousness" meant. :) Though I have to admit that the machines in the hospital are designed to read electrical impulses in a human brain, and not in a machine brain. The whole thing here is, how would we detect consciousness in a *machine*? They aren't made of the same material humans are.  ;)

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Art

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2010, 02:19:57 pm »
Well,

Is there? Can there be? By who's or what definition do we define machine consciousness let alone
the differentiation between "Human intelligence" and "Machine Intelligence?"

I think it's sort of an apples / oranges scenario. The two are vastly and completely different. As you mentioned
consciousness as it relates to humans is going to be quite different as it relates to machines and whether
by definition we can even determine a machine to be conscious.

To me, I think the mere fact that a machine works when wound up, plugged in or turned on does not constitute consciousness. Mere existence without sensory feeling or feedback is, as far as machines are concerned, not an example of consciousness. There must be a basil cause and effect in a sense (no pun).

In one of my previous statements I compared a toaster to a robot or android. Both have a design and purpose and fulfill the purpose. The toaster darkens a slice of bread until it's inner timer tells it to turn off the heating elements.

The android serves a purpose and usually provides a need, carries out a task usually with either a tether or remote controlled device. Though there are several that can act autonomously, this is not usually the case. Some people aren't quite ready for a bot that "thinks for itself."  But given this, and provided the autonomous bot could be allowed to roam and make choices would it then fall in to the category of being conscious or would it need to or have to "KNOW" that it was a bot performing various assignments, etc.?

Something these questions open up for more questions than they solve....

Interesting discussion....
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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TrueAndroids

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2010, 04:30:32 pm »
As you mentioned consciousness as it relates to humans is going to be quite different as it relates to machines and whether by definition we can even determine a machine to be conscious.

That's why the Searle Chinese Room thought experiment is so important - it gives us a way to "become" the machine, the CPU, inside the Chinese Room and see exactly what is different about a conscious machine, and how it is equivalent to human consciousness.

The Searle Chinese Room Thought Experiment - you are inside a room, playing the role of the machine or CPU. From outside, there is input a slip of paper with Chinese writing on it (and you don't know Chinese), and the question to answer is 'What if anything is your conclusion?" You then use a book of rules to figure it out, and output your answer in Chinese. It is clear that at no time did you actually (semantically) understand anything in Chinese that came in, or you put out - the whole time you are completely unconscious of what is on the input slip or output - it is all just gibberish squiggles to you; you are completely clueless about what is on the input slip; you have no consciousness (semantic understanding) of it. Searle's point is that this is exactly the situation with syntax based, classical (unconscious) computer systems - it is always just syntactic squiggles in and out - no actual understanding of anything - no consciousness of it.

Let's see if we can experience the Searle Chinese Room.

Classical Computer System - syntactic I/O so no machine consciousness present

Input Slip (in Chinese, representing syntactic squiggles to you):
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. 清晨的时候被雷雨声叫醒.
2. 发觉自己沉在被窝里.
3. 惺忪着眼竖着耳朵听.
-------------------------------------
What if anything is your conclusion?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you will agree that you - like the syntactic classical computers - have no understanding or consciousness of what the Input says.
And that if you had a real good book of rules, you could in theory, use it to combine these meaningless squiggles into an answer in Chinese, but once again, you would still be clueless as to what it says - zero consciousness of what you write as output in Chinese.
This is exactly the situation for syntactic classical computers - clever, but no consciousness of what's coming in or going out. Now feel the difference when the exact same input slip comes in, but in English this time.

Post-Classical Computer System - semantic, reason based I/O, so machine consciousness is present

Input Slip (in English, representing semantic components to you, which you can understand):
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. No eggs of mine, that are new, have been boiled.
2. All my eggs in the refrigerator are fit to eat.
3. No unboiled eggs of mine are fit to eat.
-------------------------------------
What if anything is your conclusion?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you feel that difference? You can actually (semantically) understand what's on the input slip, and your English answer, in other words you are cognitively conscious of what's on the input slip and your English output. And that is exactly how post-classical conscious machines experience it, and how they are different then classical systems - they actually understand or are cognitively conscious of their I/O.

(* 5 bonus points for whoever can get the correct conclusion ;D *)


« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 04:36:50 pm by TrueAndroids »

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claude2

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2010, 04:52:05 pm »
Job impressing, Dear, TrueAndroids, here, in Europe, certain services administrative, uses, A.I ., for recorded, a request, or, also, as, a real person, which gives information to you, in that, of usage, in the administration. It begins has this devellopper in a lot of administration. You done a remarkable job!! It is impressive. Congratulation. ;)
welcome to my world!
the doors we open and close each day decide the way we live....flora whittemore

It is a proverb, sent of my friend Rutanya Alda, actress. (Amityville2)

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TrueAndroids

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #57 on: March 22, 2010, 03:37:47 pm »
The final Part 7 of the video document of my Conscious Machine Prototype, Alldroid, is now available at

http://www.youtube.com/user/TrueAndroids?feature=mhw4#p/u/1/547N0_FEHW0

In this clip the famous Socrates syllogism is solved by Alldroid. Here's the closing point of this part:

"Watch any 3 year old. Their smooth symphony of sensors, self, consciousness, and actuators, always leaves me with the conclusion that it is oddly elegant to the extreme.

Add to this list creativity and the prime purpose of adaptive desire satisfaction and you have the complete human life theory of William James, the father of modern psychology. And this theory - the William James Human Life Theory - is what I have duplicated in my humanoid robot brain invention."


« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 05:44:05 pm by TrueAndroids »

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NoLongerActive

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2010, 12:41:55 am »
@Art

Quote
I think it's sort of an apples / oranges scenario. The two are vastly and completely different. As you mentioned consciousness as it relates to humans is going to be quite different as it relates to machines and whether by definition we can even determine a machine to be conscious.

I think the problem lies in that people are trying to make machines into humans. It's like trying to make a dog into a cat. Two different species. Humans can't even figure out their own consciousness and barely have tests for it (sure machines can read brain waves but that can't be the only indicator). So how can humans figure out a consciousness of something not human? How do they know a monkey or a mouse or a cat is "conscious"? IS there something in common in all those different species that indicates conscious thought? What about amoeba or jellyfish or worms? Or a starfish? Or a plant? Generally, it's thought that if it has a nervous system complex enough, it's conscious or capable of conscious thought. But computers don't have a "nervous system". And what is a nervous system? A series of electrochemical reactions and connections. Why not a computer's CPU which also has connections? So much to consider!

And then, I have seen where some people just parrot what they were told to do when they were growing up and don't think critically for themselves, but just parrot what is told to them and believe what they are told to believe. To me, I wonder if that can be considered conscious thought when it's no more than just following orders and doing as told?

Quote
In one of my previous statements I compared a toaster to a robot or android. Both have a design and purpose and fulfill the purpose. The toaster darkens a slice of bread until it's inner timer tells it to turn off the heating elements.
...
But given this, and provided the autonomous bot could be allowed to roam and make choices would it then fall in to the category of being conscious or would it need to or have to "KNOW" that it was a bot performing various assignments, etc.?

I think you and I both can answer this by just observing our robots! I can say "Maybe Not". As many know I have a few robots that can roam around, gather feedback from the environment and act on it. Now, they are just reacting to what their sensors and programming are indicating. If it's bumper switch is triggered, it is programmed to reverse it's drive motors for so many milliseconds or seconds to back away. If it receives a signal back from sending an IR signal (i.e. bounces off an object) it is programmed not to continue in that direction as there is a possible obstacle blocking it's way. Some more intelligent ones I have will randomly say things as they move around. My i-Ques will randomly choose a question to ask, or a factoid to tell from it's Encyclopedia and/or Dictionary in it's databanks. This is random. It even randomly determines when to stop moving and start again, when to put it's head down or back up. (unless there's an obstacle in which it will also lower it's head to try and clear the obstacle). But this is clever programming based on cause-effect in an environment. The robot does not really "know" it's doing anything at all. Does it?

That's where the "maybe" comes in. A friend of mine said that any complex system will exhibit a "personality". It's based on how it interacts in it's environment. But for that to happen, the bot has to REMEMBER what it learned and apply it to future situations on purpose depending on what it runs up against in the future. Cars do this, believe it or not! A car's computer (my '99 Ford Taurus SE for example) will store data in the computer depending on how you drive. So if you're a bit heavy on the gas, it will store how the engine was running as a result and store how to compensate for it to keep the engine running efficiently. Now if someone *else* drives my car, she'll get a little confused (depending on how different the other person drives) and she'll have to readjust herself to their driving habits. Then when I go to drive her again, she'll be like "OK... this is different again..." and have to readjust. But as long as I am driving, she "knows" what to do based on the data she stored while learning how I was driving and compensating, etc. So in a way, she's a learning system. Conscious? Well, I think even my old Pontiac 6000 was alive. Seriously, I would get upset at traffic and the engine light would go on. I apologized and the light would go off! If it was the same situation and I didn't get upset, the light wouldn't go on! There were other things too that were just too suspicious to be just a coincidence.

As you can see from tales of my own experiences, anthropomorphism can get in the way of objective classification of a system as "alive" or "conscious" or not. But then again, should we even care if it's conscious? What does it mean if something is conscious? So we treat it any better?



@TrueAndroids

I think I'm starting to understand the Searle thing. I think it's the right track to think as the machine as a machine is not human. But then again, there's the drawback that a human isn't a machine so how can a human think like a machine. They have to be part human, part machine - Cyborg. Even if metaphorically. And I think in this day and age, most all of us can qualify as a metaphoric cyborg. Especially programmers. Because as you program a computer, you must use code to describe how to do things - to "think" like the machine (even if it is in a high-level language like C++). I think see where you're going with this. And I think it's a good way to approach not just creating an AI but also explaining the AI system to those who see the AI as "just a machine". So WHAT if it's a machine? Does that mean that it's any less capable of reasoning? Your system proves it's not any less capable than some humans.

There is one flaw though in the Searle model. I might have no *understanding* of the Chinese lettering or it's meaning. But I *am* conscious and know that I am alive and understand that I did see those symbols and know I do not understand them. Can a computer think the same thing? Does it know it's conscious even though it doesn't understand the input?

I think the word "Conscious" is confused with "Reason". You can also unconsciously do things too, like sleepwalking, though.

A computer can "reason" but does it 'know' it's reasoning? Is it conscious of it's ability to reason?

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TrueAndroids

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Re: This Machine is Conscious!!!
« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2010, 01:40:02 am »

@TrueAndroids

There is one flaw though in the Searle model. I might have no *understanding* of the Chinese lettering or it's meaning. But I *am* conscious and know that I am alive and understand that I did see those symbols and know I do not understand them. Can a computer think the same thing? Does it know it's conscious even though it doesn't understand the input?

If it doesn't have consciousness to begin with, then it can't "know" = semantically understand = be cognitively conscious of anything at all. Everything is just syntactic jibberish to it, until it gets at a minimum semantic reasoning = cognitive consciousness.

Other Resources on Machine Consciousness

http://www.mecasapiens.com/  --- "The MECA SAPIENS blueprint is based on a definition of consciousness that is sufficiently general yet suitable for machine implementation and a definition of intelligence that corresponds; a world first.  Those who follow this project will know, by the end of 2010, that a new form of consciousness is about to emerge in the world."

http://www.mecasapiens.com/index.php/mc-links.html   -- machine consciousness links

http://www.machineconsciousness.org/overview.html#faq    --- machine consciousness FAQ from a leading researcher

http://www.imprint.co.uk/jcs.html   --- Journal of Consciousness Studies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_consciousness  --- "Artificial consciousness (AC), also known as machine consciousness (MC) or synthetic consciousness, is a field related to artificial intelligence and cognitive robotics whose aim is to define that which would have to be synthesized were consciousness to be found in an engineered artifact. (Aleksander 1995)"
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 01:50:40 am by TrueAndroids »

 


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