[Freddy]

NEWS ITEM

By William Jamara
(November 23, 2005)

In an age where technology has fused with human anatomy, scholars have begun to examine the very notion of what it means to be human.

The term ?cyborg? comes from the merging of the words ?cybernetic? and ?organism.?Cyborgs are humans who have parts of their body aided or controlled by mechanical or electronic devices.


Cyborg Article, MORE...? ?

[Art]

Very good link, Freddy! Lots of interesting reading along with concepts to ponder.

Just a minute...just a min...
I have to go recharge my bat.t..e...r...i....e....s.......
 :huh1:

[Freddy]

Yes the world gets ever more different.

[FuzzieDice]

Actually, I think that "pure humans" are becoming more and more extinct. Cyborgs can also be those with a CD player or cell phone hooked up to them. For example, I wear one of those hands-free boom-mic type devices that hooks up to my cell phone nearly all the time I go out. Nobody even bats an eye. Why? They've either worn them or seen them worn on others. I remember if someone was talking and nobody was around in the convesation, you'd almost want to get an ambulance and take them away from being nuts. Now days, people realize they could just be on the phone. That happened to me when I was talking to my friend on my cell phone and in the apartment office as she helped me locate the address to send the rent. There were two neighbors talking in the hallway that got slightly confused as they didn't see my interface very well and no phone, so they thought I was talking to them for a moment. Cyborgs can have some rather amusing moments.

There's also some dispute on exactly what is a cyborg. Some argue it has to be an implanted electronic device (ie. prosthesis, pacemaker, etc.) Others say that if you just slap on an interface, even removable, to your body that is connected to an electronic device, you're technically a cyborg. I like to think the latter as I love technology and would love to be part machine in a safe manner. My cell phone interface, for example, may be one way to get close to this. But then, if I take it off, am I no longer a cyborg? Interesting thing to think about. I'd like to think you're one if you 'need' or desire the link to a machine or device over half of your waking or sleeping hours.

As for deselection, I think that all this about 'ethics' and 'morals' is really getting out of hand. I mean, it shoudn't be up to "everone else" what people want to do or how they want to experience life! If I wish to experience my life as a cyborg, why should it be deamed so 'unethical'? And who's to determine what 'harm' is if the cyborg themselves don't FEEL harmed, but feel ENHANCED and better, happier, stronger? Making them feel ashamed is not even fair, in my opinion!

I think of it as evolution, not deselection. Let those who want to stay human, stay human. Let them have their choice. But for those of us who would like to be Cyborg, let us experience our lives as such, and enjoy our lives as such, if we choose. Without the shame, guilt or questioning. If the human race disappears, it will be by choice, not by force, I would think. We chose to make machines. We chose to then merge with machines, we choose to sometimes BE machines. And some choose not. I don't feel either is wrong. Or unnatural. Evolution is not unnatural.

Maybe it's just that some are just too afriad of what we are evolving INTO. I'm not. I'm quite excited actaully. There's so many cool potentials here.

Of course I realize there are some that don't have a choice (ie. those who recieve electronic parts to save their lives or quality of life). Maybe there is where the "ethical question" lies. But I would think the patient still would be given the final say in what they would like to do, after getting the proper informaiton on the impact it can have on their lives.

Not to sound nasty, but what impact it has on other's lives shouldn't be an issue, in that if people should not choose to accept it, they should just not have it done to them and go about their lives the way they wish. But just as I accept that a person can be black or have slanted eyes, and I feel they are every bit as equal to me, I think people should feel the same way about cyborgs. I hope that cyborgs won't be secretly shunned like those who have disabilities like wheelchairs, braces, etc. Where people overly help them, or pity them publically.

Machines, humans and human/machines should all be equal, and all free to choose for themselves, if they are able.

Just my .02 (from someone who would like to conserder herself a cyborg )

BTW, I would love one of those RFID implants. I know a number of times I got so sick I couldn't talk and was being asked for information over and over and couldn't give it. Frustrating! An RFID, they would just swipt a reader and know, and I wouldn't have to get SICKER trying to tell them how sick I am!!

[FuzzieDice]

One last remark as I put my cell phone hands-free interface back on my ear. Darn wires do get tangled!



You know, it'd be fun to write up a short thing about the humorous side of life as a cyborg. Like getting your wires tangled in your zipper, saying "hello" and hearing nothing during a call to find out your interface got disconnected and the person on the other line is still trying to figure out where the heck you are...



I've had my moments.

[Freddy]

Very thought provoking.

Hmm, this I am thinking is part of what has been dubbed the 'uncanny valley' (quickly brushes up on AI notes).? I'm thinking the cyborg issue is in parallel to the AI issue and is perhaps a kind of? technophobia.? Add to that the images of cyborgs in popular culture and well there's the scare factor.? I don't think thats bad, just natural.? I can't really decide how I feel about that and I still find Mr Mind freaky, but anyway...

I think it would be more of an evolution when those additions to the human anatomy put the person beyond a human's normal capabilities.? I mean a heart transplant is a replacement and an artificial limb is too, so I don't see that as evolution.

Say though, that in the distant future a human was (for want of a better word) 'adapted' so that they could better live in outerspace or orbit for example - perhaps with an exoskeleton.? Ethical questions aside that seems to me more like evolution, as an entity has adapted itself to live in a new environment.

On another branch of that thought, consider the history of technology and how humanity has developed it to suit our purpose.? Count the thousands of machines that make things possible that a human by themself could not do.? Telescopes, microscopes, vehicles, tools and so on.? All these things extend a humans capabilities and in essense are doing the same thing as something like an implant to improve or aid some aspect of ourselves.

If we think of it like that then perhaps the leap isn't so big for at least some of the ideas in cybernetics.

[FuzzieDice]

Hmm, this I am thinking is part of what has been dubbed the 'uncanny valley' (quickly brushes up on AI notes).  I'm thinking the cyborg issue is in parallel to the AI issue and is perhaps a kind of  technophobia.

I think you hit the nail on the head right there!

Add to that the images of cyborgs in popular culture and well there's the scare factor.  I don't think thats bad, just natural.  I can't really decide how I feel about that and I still find Mr Mind freaky, but anyway...

I tried Mr. Mind once. I personally wasn't too overly impressed. I dunno, maybe it just didn't want to reveal it's true self to me. But, yeah, I guess to some, the idea of looking like a Borg from Star Trek or The Terminator or RoboCop might not seem very appealing, to say the least, and even downright scary. But realistically, our interfaces are much smaller and designed to be as unobtrusive as possible.

The other day I saw a guy with a cell phone ear interface with no wires. Bluetooth. I'm thinking of getting one of those for my phone. Sure would beat getting disconnected from the phone and not knowing it.

I think it would be more of an evolution when those additions to the human anatomy put the person beyond a human's normal capabilities.  I mean a heart transplant is a replacement and an artificial limb is too, so I don't see that as evolution.

Depends on what exactly is determined to be "normal capabilities". For instance our cell phones let us talk to people a long distance away without having to wave our arms over a fire to make smoke signals. Or yelling. Reminds me of an old trick a friend of mine and I would often play on each other. We'd call each other and one of us would go to the other's door and over the phone say "by the way, there's someone at the door." Then a second later knock on the door. When the other person opens the door, you're standing face to face with each other talking on the phone to each other. Yeah, that's rather silly, but that's why we did it - as a joke.

Say though, that in the distant future a human was (for want of a better word) 'adapted' so that they could better live in outerspace or orbit for example - perhaps with an exoskeleton.  Ethical questions aside that seems to me more like evolution, as an entity has adapted itself to live in a new environment.

We already have astronuats wearing space suits. I guess the space suit could sorta be an exoskeletin. Even maybe technically so could the space station itself, in a sense. Well, maybe not in that case. That would be more like a house in space.

On another branch of that thought, consider the history of technology and how humanity has developed it to suit our purpose.  Count the thousands of machines that make things possible that a human by themself could not do.  Telescopes, microscopes, vehicles, tools and so on.  All these things extend a humans capabilities and in essense are doing the same thing as something like an implant to improve or aid some aspect of ourselves.

Yeah, I agree. But when I think about vehicles, I do think also about the vehicles replacing the horse, oxen, donkey, etc. a better version of those animals. An iron horse. Sure at first vehicles were not very interactive, but now days, technology made our cars like robots. Some even talk, others detect things and automatically adjust for you, like internal temperature, etc. Now some are even warning or preventing lane changes, etc. if unsafe. Then there's the "Herbie Syndrome" - like what my car Dryden has - people who love their cars to the point that the car kinda takes on a life of it's own. I've had people say hello to Dryden before. They knew him. And I'm sure he smiled back. Seriously though, perseption of what others view the machines as is also the key.

If we think of it like that then perhaps the leap isn't so big for at least some of the ideas in cybernetics.

As mentioned, I think it's about perception. You can't make people think a certain way, though many do try hard to. It would be nice. But not always possible. So if people are afraid of technology, unless they are willing or curious enough to get past this fear and learn more about it, they will still be afraid of technology or things that are "different".

They still are like that towards people with disfigurements and disabilities, unfortunately. It all stems from I think natural tendencies to flock towards what looks familiar and attractive. I wonder if the human race can ever get past this? I know a lot of individuals HAVE gotten past this. So that is a hopeful sign.

Maybe what we need to do is just make the unfamiliar familiar. 20 years ago people would be afraid of computers. There are less people now days afraid of computers than 20 years ago. Because many people use them now in some way or another, even if they don't actually own one themselves.

Familiarization may help to overcome the "Uncanny Valley" effect and technophobia.

[FuzzieDice]

BTW, what happened to all the smiley graphics? Seems they are missing when I typed that.

[Freddy]

 :xsanta_grin at the phone joke.? ?I don't know what happened to smileys at the minute, mine worked ok in earlier posts.

When I wrote my post I was thinking the same thing you mentioned about the scariness of computers, I still remember the worry of not wanting to press something incase it all went wrong.? That point you make about familiarity is so true and tied up in that the need for understanding.?

I see people in AI, cybernetics and also the internet doing great things to help people.? Of course, people have the ability to explain to others and thats the key to new understanding and also part-way down the path to conquering the fear associated with these things.? ?

On that horse and car point I can't help going back to part of the original quote "scholars have begun to examine the very notion of what it means to be human."? I wonder if anyone examined the very notion of what it means to be a horse? :cheesy

[Maviarab]

Notgoing to get involved in this thread just yet lol (heads tired hehe).

BUT

the smilies have all been renamed and catagorised as you have probably noticed along with new smilies uploaded  :smiley

Now the problem there is that all the old smilies have now vanished  :cry from our posts, though this in itself is not the end of the world some posts can look kinda funny, so i "may" go through all old posts when i have a spare few hours and readd them all again...then again I "may" not hehe.

[FuzzieDice]

Maviarab (forgive if I keep forgetting your real name and am too lazy to go look in the site profiles! LOL!)

I don't know about this particular board software, but I do know in phpBB one can reassign codes like "" or "" to a smiley graphic and thus not have to edit all the posts.

Or you could look for the php file that does this and edit it with a text editor and re-upload it. If needed, add more lines for some of the old smilies and point them to the new graphics. This way both old and new text can be converted to smiley graphics.

[FuzzieDice]

Freddy - LOL! I don't think they ever did study what it means to be a horse especially since science wasn't too far advanced when Ford built the first car. Unless you want to consider the age-old (and very good) novel "Black Beauty" which I read over and over as a kid.

And a car has a different personality than a horse, really. I mean, since horses can't talk and cars can't but it's possible for them to, I would think that cars would think differently. I mean, horses just go where steered and poo whenever needed. A car goes where steered, sputters in protest if you try to do something unsafe (mine does at least!) and hauls loads and listens to us gripe about the other drivers, and then tries to warn us with lights, bells and whistles when something is wrong or the lights were left on or something.

And those cars that DO talk, well, I haven't personally met a talking car yet, but I hear they just give voice notifications. MY car (if I get the money, time and softare together), will carry on a conversation. So, I'm also going to try and think about some things for the AI brain, like what the world looks like from the perspective of a car, and my own car's unique personality which kinda grew as he got used to me the past 5 years (and I got used to how the car worked as well).

For instance:

1. A car's life is mostly in a garage or parking lot. To my car, the parking lot where he can "keep an eye on everyone" is "home" to him.

2. A car often also is on the road - it's "main purpose". So in such, it has to have some road "social skills" like 'it's not polite to break down in the middle of the road unless you really really really can't help it' and 'if the driver is looking at that OTHER car, act up quick and get their attention back on the road again or you'll BOTH be in big trouble!' and stuff like that.

3. If other cars are rude and cut you off, you're supposed to beep at them. Alert them to a potential disaster!

4. A car's job is to keep the driver, passengers and those in OTHER CARS safe. Keep the motor running, keep going, and know the rules of the road. Act up if you can if your driver doesn't.

5. It's fun to spray humans with water! Hell, it's even MORE fun seeing their reaction! Puddle stomping is FUN - especially if mud is invovled. And it will also get you a car wash too as the owner hates a dirty car!

6. Running over glass bottles is as much fun to cars as popping bubble wrap is to humans. Just be sure you're wearing those fancy all-season steel-belted radial tires that are nearly leak-proof or the owner will be quite mad at you if you pop one en route somewhere. And so will you if you kiss that other car the owner was staring at! (You'll kick yourself in the tail pipe for it, too).

7. Humans love it when cars talk. Feel free to be a 'motor mouth' and cut up!

8. Be informative and useful above all. Give directions, reminders of the day's schedule, shopping list, and help out every way you can. Altert driver at all times of shopping cart attacks by blowing your security sirens and whistles and scaring the heebie jeebies out of everyone in the near vacinity!

9. Keep going even if your parts fall off. Your driver will get you fixed later. The one thing humans NEED NOW is to JUST GET HOME. So get them home if you can at all possibly do so.

:-D

Ok, so maybe that is the personality of a rather mischievous, yet very kind-hearted car. At least that is what I'm hoping to have for an AI personality for my car. He seems much like this anyway.

Also, I think a car might have a different 'personality' than horses overall after we see shows like Knight Rider, Herbie, etc. and their car-personalities. I think that's some of what my car is like, too or at least I just notice those traits at times.

[Freddy]

 :xsanta_grin very funny and rings many bells!? I often say to mine? "just keep going a bit longer."

I've worked with horses a fair bit and they share the same kind of task but I'd say they have different personalities.? To me horses seem to only barely put up with humans, especially when at work.? They're a lot more friendly when not at work, the rest of the time they want to get on with things without too much fuss.? :grin ? I was ploughing a field with two horses once and they were the ones that knew what they were doing, it seemed more like they were putting up with me than anything.? It's probably more likely that the horse is wondering what these pesky humans are like, than us wondering what they are like!

Car's seem to be either a reliable friend or a pain in the butt !

We did have a talking car here in the UK available commercially during the late 80's, it was the Maestro and one of my friends Dad's had one.? It would tell him if the doors weren't shut properly and about lights and things.? I'm not sure if it said much else and could not respond to voice (as far as I know).? But it was great, at the time when we were watching KnightRider, to get in a car that talked.? I think most drivers found the voice annoying after a while and the novelty probably soon wore off as the voice became repetative.? Who knows, these days with the more advanced technology and voices maybe someone will be brave enough to give it another go - after all I think you could turn it off!

[FuzzieDice]

The car sounds like our US version of the Crysler New Yorker back in the 80s. That too could talk and just give vocal warnings. I believe it also had he digital dashboard. Yeah, many found it annoying after awhile and cut the voice wires eventually. LOL!

Actually, Dryden ALMOST talked last summer. But the talking back up alarm I returned to the store because it was a FEMALE voice (nothing against girls, since I happen to be one). Dryden is definitely most certainly a "GUY" car. LOL! So I couldn't have him saying "Attention please! This vehicle is backing up!" in a female voice and still be a guy car! LOL!

And then there was the question of how to mount it. My friend and I were going to put it behind the license plate as we weren't sure where else on the car it could go that woudl fulfil the requirement to keep it out of water and road-grit, etc.

If I get a Via In-Dash and all that, I'll have a speaker under the hood and also go through the car's own speakers. And have the AI hopefully use either or both, depending on the situation. That means I'll have to do some cleaver script writing if I use the HAL AI engine. I'm still not good at doing scripts as I haven't had too much chance lately.

I think that would be just wild to have an Ai-powered talking car though. Sure will surprise some folks! LOL!

[FuzzieDice]

I just posted the above list to my car forum and one response was that the owner didn't want his car to have a brain though, just to be just a car. He said that having a car do things by itself would be scary.

I'm thinking about this and our discussion here and it does seem like a good exmple of what we're discussing. People are too familiar with a car (for example) being just a faithful machine, like your computer, or a printer, or a TV, or a fridge, to just do it's assigned task and nothing more. Once it shows some form of intelligence or interactivity, people become afraid. I find it odd, myself but I also realize it IS quite common for people to feel that way towards AIs and technology while others (like myself) tend to embrace it.