Poll

If you had a technology, would you create a child Universe within this Universe we know about? (with life, matter, and all the other wonders we see around us)

:) Yes, of course!
4 (50%)
;) Yes
1 (12.5%)
:-\ Maybe
2 (25%)
:-[ No
0 (0%)
:( Of course not!
1 (12.5%)

Total Members Voted: 8

A child Universe?

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ivan.moony

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A child Universe?
« on: May 22, 2020, 05:14:02 pm »
In other words, do you think this Universe would strive to reproduce if it had an opportunity?

[Edit]
Maybe we should firstly find out how to ask the very Universe such a question.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 06:02:41 pm by ivan.moony »
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Korrelan

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Re: A child Universe?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2020, 06:04:14 pm »
Do you consider the Universe... Sentient?

 :)

As Tyrell said to Roy... What's on your mind... Ivan...

 :)
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HS

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Re: A child Universe?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2020, 06:54:01 pm »
It looks like our universe would just keep flying apart and reigniting itself. Though that would seem to break the rule of energy being uncreatable and indestructible.  Maybe matter can only have energy in relation to other bits of matter; you need two masses for gravitational potential energy. Maybe if galaxies, solar systems, planets, electrons, nuclei, protons, neutrons, and quarks separate, their shared energy goes back into space, until it reaches critical energy density which spawns a new matter. Maybe the first bit of new matter in an empty, energy dense field acts as a catalyst, whoosh. Maybe only universes with laws allowing such reproduction stick around to populate their substrate. I guess these systems could reproduce and get more reliable at it through their version of natural selection.   

If our universe is a simulation itself, its interesting that the simulators seem to have started it off with the big bang. Maybe an indication of the limitations of creating something so complex. Though I’m skeptical about simulation theory, each iteration would shrink in some way, so you could only have a limited number of them. They would die off as the original universe died and reignited* itself, (going of the notion that most universes do this, because they are the ones that have stuck around). Since the original universes should be richer in materials, because simulations have to leave things out, the originals seem like they would have more opportunities for life. Therefore, maybe its actually more probable for most life to reside on the ground floor of reality, in the same way that more life forms get their energy form the sun, than there are organisms which get their energy form those life forms.

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ivan.moony

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Re: A child Universe?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2020, 07:20:40 pm »
@K:
Do you consider the Universe... Sentient?

 :)

I couldn't tell without a scientific proof. What do you think?
 
As Tyrell said to Roy... What's on your mind... Ivan...

 :)

This Italian coffee is kicking in my brains :eyemouth: Maybe some new project is pending... Wanted to check what you guys say upstairs.

@HS:
How about two parallel Universes, one ruling the other, and they interchange every few eons?
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LOCKSUIT

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Re: A child Universe?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2020, 07:55:31 pm »
I selected Yes, because I want VR, a perfect life and replays, huge homes, meals, etc etc.

Would I do it just cus? No. I want survival. I want data. Simulations do help us collect more data. So do alien DNA harvesting. Like monkeys in cages, experimented on. But I don't know how far you'd go :) Hurry! Nebula 56XT45 is approaching, run the sim on humans to see what they would do!
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HS

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Re: A child Universe?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2020, 09:29:29 pm »
Italian coffee, nice. You reminded me! I should get some coffee, pretty much its always a good time for coffee for me  :D

How about two parallel Universes, one ruling the other, and they interchange every few eons?

Well there is dark matter/energy, it could be traces of another universe somehow manifesting in ours. Maybe it is reversed in polarity, so our matter wants to clump together due to gravity, but the parallel universe’s version of gravity wants to push our matter apart. Then these could function symbiotically by supplying each other with useful properties. Though it might require an extra dimension for them to both inhabit, and end up and stuck together due to reversed polarity.

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ivan.moony

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Re: A child Universe?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2020, 09:55:07 pm »
Well there is dark matter/energy, it could be traces of another universe somehow manifesting in ours. Maybe it is reversed in polarity, so our matter wants to clump together due to gravity, but the parallel universe%u2019s version of gravity wants to push our matter apart. Then these could function symbiotically by supplying each other with useful properties. Though it might require an extra dimension for them to both inhabit, and end up and stuck together due to reversed polarity.

That could be on deeper levels. On shallower levels, as a part of the same fractal structure, two great galaxies may be crushing against each other in a glorious gravitational interplay, producing hundreds of smaller galaxies, each being able to host different forms of life in the future... Man... For these kinds of conversations, maybe we should have here an 18+ explicit forum section...

Any ideas for black holes, or is it too much to ask?
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Re: A child Universe?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2020, 09:56:45 pm »
Giving a gift may be more exciting than getting but then that itself is receiving a gift - giving one. And both are needed, like a magnet's poles. What goes in must come out!

Happiness cannot be defined, you can like anything, in complete safety if done in VR. Flowers. Roof tops. Money. Men. Lava. Frogs. Atoms. Jogging. Gods. What we like is food and reproduction and shelter/etc a bit lesser because they keep us alive by spreading us and protecting us and repairing us. Survival. There is less room for liking huge bath tubs, but in the future nanobot planet it can easily efficiently be dreamt and will be done but not as often. Usually repairing the hive will be the new/improved happy thing that they "want to do"...it's just physics's goals/wants... If you don't want an explainable physics and want Free Will etc then you are looking at randomness, which is not magic orbs either, but maximally variableness.

If the universe duplicates more universes with mutations (room for improvement), this is like Evolution, some die and become new forms, some live longer. We don't control it unless we run simulations in boxes. But then that is just data duplication, not universe creating. Though it can seem like it...
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ivan.moony

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Re: A child Universe?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2020, 10:32:35 pm »
We don't control it unless we run simulations in boxes. But then that is just data duplication, not universe creating. Though it can seem like it...

Those simulation boxes might be of my interest (whatever happens inside them), reading the current poll results. The rest is beyond the current technology, as far as I know.
There exist some rules interwoven within this world. As much as it is a blessing, so much it is a curse.

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HS

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Re: A child Universe?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2020, 11:21:40 pm »
Man... For these kinds of conversations, maybe we should have here an 18+ explicit forum section...

Yeah way too much talk of reproductive big bangs for AI forum guidelines lol.

Any ideas for black holes, or is it too much to ask?

I haven’t the faintest about black holes, spooky… Though I find it reliving that they evaporate over time, …even though there is no time inside. It is also a relief that they “remember” all particles they have eaten and evaporate them back into the regular space time. Maybe matter is made of tougher stuff than we imagine, and it survives somehow, maybe it has no time in which to be destroyed. 

But yes, some kind of coherent yet simplified universal simulation is a great project. We need a suitable world for testing out various ideas, and running experiments in a less costly manner, time and money wise..

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Art

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Re: A child Universe?
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2020, 03:11:08 am »
I selected Yes, because I want VR, a perfect life and replays, huge homes, meals, etc etc.

Would I do it just cus? No. I want survival. I want data. Simulations do help us collect more data. So do alien DNA harvesting. Like monkeys in cages, experimented on. But I don't know how far you'd go :) Hurry! Nebula 56XT45 is approaching, run the sim on humans to see what they would do!

How do you know that you're (we're) not already part of a very grand experiment that has been playing out for eons? Perhaps the is Earth 6.0 or more or less. The energy that is expended doesn't have to stay here on Earth? The matter created/destroyed thing...nope...it can travel elsewhere in this cosmos and is never destroyed nor created.

The VR you envision might just be part of this huge simulation we're all experiencing at this moment. Some wake up...some never do.

One day it might be known to us...or maybe not. Nothing lasts forever!
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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ivan.moony

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Re: A child Universe?
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2020, 02:51:38 pm »
Is the Universe sentient?

Quote from: forbes.com
...
You've seen the analogies before: how atoms are like solar systems, how the large-scale structure of the Universe are like neurons in a human brain, and how there's the interesting coincidence that the number of stars in a galaxy, galaxies in the Universe, atoms in a cell, and cells in a living being are all approximately the same large (10^11 to 10^14) number
...
It's very difficult to give a direct answer to a question like this, because we aren't 100% certain of what consciousness and self-awareness actually are. But we are certain about a few physical things that can help us give the best answer to this question we possibly can, including:
 
  • How old the Universe is,
  • How long various objects have had to send-and-receive signals to-and-from one another,
  • How large the largest gravitationally bound structures are,
  • And how many signals bound and unbound structures of various sizes will have to exchange information of any type with one another.
...
the number of total signals that can be exchanged on a galactic scale over the timescales that stars will exist is compelling and interesting, and seems to hold the potential for the amount of information exchanged to be comparable to the one thing we know to be self-aware. Still, it's important to note that even if that were all it took, our galaxy would presently be the equivalent of a 6 hour old baby: not too bright. If there is a larger consciousness, it hasn't emerged yet.
...
« Last Edit: June 06, 2020, 03:20:45 pm by ivan.moony »
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Art

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Re: A child Universe?
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2020, 03:23:33 pm »
Out of all the billions of planets in our universe we can't even take care of this one and we humans certainly can't get along with each other for very long. It would be a wasted effort to consider creating another universe especially since this one is so expansive and unexplored.

If you wanted to create another Earth, well, it has been rumored to be one already, in fact, there are many, many Earths spinning and going about life just as we do and are doing. These multiple Earths exist in a parallel universe. One that is exactly like this one except you will never be able to go there or meet someone or even yourself. (the Parallel reference explains it all).

There are lots of Theoretical Physicists who have outlined and explained the very likely possibility of how and why such parallel universes already exist.

What we really should do is figure out a way to get along and a method to deal with those who, for whatever reason, are unable to "play nicely" or observe decent behavior toward each other.

In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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ivan.moony

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Re: A child Universe?
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2020, 03:58:20 pm »
What if this is as much as we can gain in this very moment? We'd like it to be better, but we always will, and the future is reaching us always, just look at the past. It's getting better all the time. But is there an upper bound to this desire of our, a bound tied to a present moment of our existence in time? Maybe we can get some smart answers if learning from someone much smarter then us, individual earthlings, living within our "6 hours old baby galaxy".

Here is another interesting search: is the Universe a fractal? If it is, maybe we can comprehend further than we can see, upscale or downscale.

I'd like to know is everything as it should be. If it isn't, let's try to fix it. But if it is... then what is life about? Is it about enjoying the moment of constantly making our environment a better place for everyone, and sharing that experience with new generations?

There is another approach to this matter: if the very Universe dreams, let's believe in those dreams and try to play along. If the Universe is really sentient, let's enjoy its presence, let's pay some attention, and take our chances to ask how can we play along. Maybe we could be honored with some answers?
There exist some rules interwoven within this world. As much as it is a blessing, so much it is a curse.

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HS

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Re: A child Universe?
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2020, 08:15:20 pm »
If officials and institutions are granted power over individual people, then people on mass need an actual way to quickly and easily alter the laws by which these law enforcement people operate. Otherwise the yin yang of society begins to spin out of balance like that dryer with the cat in it, and everyone loses in that scenario. Maybe we could inspect civilization for unmatched (force + counter-force) pairs. If no legal mechanisms exist to balance an unbalanced system, then of course people will resort to illegal methods. So crime could be a good indicator of where to look for unbalanced forces, then work can begin on creating an official, legal, peaceful, co-opposite force.

 


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