[Don Patrick]

How long ago was it that animals were not considered alive or feeling? A century or three? I only consider plants alive because school taught me that they fit the definition, provided we take some liberties on the definitions of "breathe" and "eat". Otherwise plants would just be inanimate objects to me. As they are alive, we have murdered entire tribes of trees, and furnished our houses with their corpses. Animals, while alive, still haven't been given voting rights or freedom. We raise them in cages, and kill them without remorse for their meat and skin. So what difference does it really make whether one is alive or not? It seems the only difference is made by whether one is human or not, and even then, sometimes only if of particular skin tones.

I think the definition of life is overrated, but I am pretty sure that "truly" is no part of any definition. Court is leading the witness.

[Art]

Very well put Don! If the word "alive" refers to being able to think and speak with, of course, varying degrees of intelligence, then we're not far off from achieving that at all.

Will this AI be able to take over the world, hardly. Rule over various court decisions? Possibly, in due time which might be somewhat more fare as most couldn't be bought or wined and dined like some current human judges, prosecutors, etc.

Although AGI has not yet happened, I do think it will eventually occur. Alive? Let's wait then ask it. 

[8pla.net]

Sometimes when training a neural network it may
feel like a young puppy trying to learn from you.

The same program without changing its source,
will often get it right, but also fail sometimes.

For all we know, computers may have been alive
in the past. After all, computers have been around
for at least thousands of years.

[ivan.moony]

We raise them in cages, and kill them without remorse for their meat and skin.

I thought I was the only one who sees it that way...

[Zero]

Alive? Let's wait then ask it. 

No matter how sophisticated computers are, if people don't believe them when they say "I'm real, I'm alive", they'll never be considered alive.

[Korrelan]

Anthropomorphism and empathy are responsible for clouding our current definition of life. 

If I met you, I would know you are alive because of the traits you exhibit, which I personally recognise and attribute to ‘being alive’, from my own experience of being alive.

We recognise emotion in others by using our own emotional networks, if I see you looking sad, I recognise this and ‘empathise’ using my own networks related to feeling sad.  I would literally feel your sadness.

When we can converse with, experience a machine and personally ‘feel’ the machine is alive… that will be good enough, we are hooked, and it’s all relative to the user.

Some people talk to their cars… I do.

[Zero]

So do I  I talk to cars, computers, human beings...

We can do this thanks to our mirror neurons, am I correct? Is it a field you already did investigate in your creations, korrelan?

It is also important for learning, I believe. You look at someone doing something. Why would you imitate him? Because when he's done, you can see that he's satisfied, and you can "feel" his satisfaction (through empathy). So your memory can store the process you witnessed (what has been done) and its outcome (the resulting satisfaction). Since you like satisfaction, you imitate him. (It's just a theory)


EDIT: A history of things to come?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdQceIJ-t-M

[Art]

Hmm....should've taken the Red pill....

[Korrelan]

Hi Zero 

Is it a field you already did investigate in your creations, korrelan?

From my experiments I think that we use exactly the same neural circuits to process someone else’s expressions\ actions\ feelings as we do our own… it’s just the subject of attention that changes.  Hard to explain but the overall state of our brain when we feel sad is exactly the same as when we see\ hear someone frowning\ sobbing… the difference is our attention\ the subject is external, not internal. We empathise because we are literally experiencing\ feeling the sadness\ grief.

When our attention is external and we see someone trip over a rock, the memory\ location\action is mapped so it can also be used with internal attention model, and the location is translated to a local schema (this translation is learned through experience) so we don’t trip over the same rock.  Imagination works the same way, if you imagine a duck you use exactly the same neural circuits as if you see a duck, but the triggering impetus is provided by internal not external attention.

Mirror Neurons are not a special type of neuron, they are just the neurons that translate our internal model of ‘self’ to an external attention source.

[Don Patrick]

We raise them in cages, and kill them without remorse for their meat and skin.

I thought I was the only one who sees it that way...

Most vegetarians see it that way, so you're hardly the only one.

[Art]

While I won't say 'All', I'll certainly say that there's a place for a lot of Earth's creatures...

right next to the mashed potatoes!

[ivan.moony]

 

[Zero]

Beautiful.