[HS]

Scenario One:   We think it's impossible to extend life by uploading yourself. The scenario where you kill yourself and create a copy at the same time. We deduce it won't work, you won't be transferred; because if you created a copy of yourself while you are alive you just create a copy that is its own entity, and you have no access to it, like you would have no cognitive access to your twin.

Scenario Two: It seems like if you do it gradually, then it should work. To transfer yourself into a robot body, you do it in a trillion little steps. Nano bots replace neurons with artificial ones over years, organs, bones, muscles, replaced with synthetic materials over time where our body will allow it. We can think of better variations on this, but the general principle seems intuitively sound.

Main Weirdness: Why does the time frame matter?

[ivan.moony]

And brain? how do you replace that?

[HS]

Nanobots carry artificial neurons. Biological neurons die and are replaced by artificial ones. Over time the brain becomes increasingly non biological.

The difference between the sudden and gradual approach is still mystifying though. I don't know what the actual difference is. It's like surfing on a wave. Conciseness is the surfer and the wave is  the vessel. The surfer can stay on the wave if it's altered gradually, but if the wave collapses and reforms the surfer gets left behind.

[LOCKSUIT]

I have some good opinions in this area of thinking.

I don't know if you got the ideas from me, but I have said in my work over a year ago at age ~21/22 that too that:

1) you can make a copy w same thoughts running on another exact Earth while you're alive and so if did it when you're dead it again is "another". But maybe we all are the same one, I know we all can slowly turn into the same body w same memories technically. Etc etc.

2) You change yourself slowly, and the way it was done is fine and still you. In contrast I also said in my work we get arms chopped off etc instantly and are still you, so, idk, I guess that's not the answer? I mean 'you' are your thoughts/feelings in ur brain, and those change all the time, slowly. But again, all day long we don't remember all our memories (or can get a chunk of brain extracted)...so why not they just all get erased and we are still the same? But does our neural net process input/thoughts using the net derived/made up from all those experiences we've had? Yes, but only the nodes being accessed...Right now I can clear my mind and just see my hand...on my keyboard.....where is all that "me" anyway? I'm not using my knowledge or attitude at that moment...just a quite sad moment of wasting time looking at my hand on my keyboard, maybe I am the recognition net simply

But then how slow is OK? Why is there a difference? Either you are still you or suddenly not cus happen too fast/hard? I agree maybe waking and fixed in cryonics thawing you'll be "u". Another thing I say is photons move so many locations each second that each second there is a huge number of "ticks", about 135million or thousand years each second, and that during all that slow mo (well, real time) time we DONT sense/comput dude! We are so damn slow. Lightspeed optical computing would solve all problems if all the soil was thinking nanobots running at lightspeed thinking etc. Again, our brain registers so, so, slowly, we only have a "register" between thousands of years in the real real-time of lightspeed. Thats ind boggling.

I also thought recently our bodies can be repaired by nanobot advanced creatures one day soon, like a car, all parts can. We can already add peoples limbs, organs, etc, push nose back in better, add skin....and sow it up and it looks better! Yet we do it so poorly too! Nanobots would push it all to a "better" state. We just can't and think its magic feats of stupendidness! Of course, the faster more unmoral way to save humans is to access and remove right-on-site in the AIR the thinking neocortex waiting at top, how easy you nanoswarms have it.

You, if we want you to stay existing, may be recogniizing stuff, and a own knowledge net, often used, a history of these mental actions...a pattern...the way we act, get up, do something, a sequence, we try to protect ourselves, that one moment staring at a wall is just one moment of a bigger sequence....longer time! ?

Of course if you mean us machines, is my friend Joe still Joe if he morphed too fast? Well, no. But if you age or do stuff slowly humans dont recognize it (you as being "woah different!!")....But that is a different subject - the body.....above I was talking about consciousnesses that sense senses that we do

[Korrelan]

We think it's impossible to extend life by uploading yourself.

I’m not so sure.  Just like a USB pen drive can store any kind of PC data it’s beginning to look like there is a very generic mental template/ connectome that could theoretically store and run anyone’s consciousness.  Physical abnormalities aside, we all have very similar neural architectures.  The molecular copying of the fine synaptic/ biochemical structures would still be required but at least a basic template would hasten proceedings.  This is obviously still science fiction… or until the AGI’s take over.

The scenario where you kill yourself and create a copy at the same time. We deduce it won't work,

If you are put unconscious, then an exact molecular level clone is created… and the clone is woken up you wouldn’t know the difference.  You/ the clone would have the memories of the procedure and continuity would remain intact.

The slow replacement of neural structures seems like a viable method, but you might as well rip the whole nervous system out and place it in a machine body, or a vat remotely connected to a machine body. You would need everything not just the cortex, the spinal cord, etc.

The main problem with all these approaches is not the molecular copying required, although that’s hard enough, it’s the patterns of electrical activity… the copy has to be exactly the same… physical structure is one thing, but I can currently see no way of recreating/ restarting the electrical patterns. 

The brain stem looks like a good candidate, it supplies the circadian rhythms required to synchronise neural activity, perhaps a couple of really, really small jump leads might do the job lol.

 

[Art]

The CLONE of the original is NOT the original...it is a Copy.

IF both were asleep then awoken at the same time, the original would be able to have an independent thought completely separate from the Clone and perhaps unique to the original based on previously known or learned knowledge.

Basically, the Clone is not You and you will not live on via the Clone. It will be capable of its own individual thoughts and experiences and you will die.

Only a being with your likeness and memories but Not for you to experience.

The mention of nanobots is basically theoretical in practice. For instance, they would carry no oxygen. Many of them would tend to clog up the arteries. Lastly, What would power them? Again...hypothesize all you want like those theoretical physicists do. Fantasy is one thing, the reality is another and there are many issues that are in need of resolution before these bots can be put in practical use.

https://www.microscopemaster.com/nanobots.html

[octavianulici]

Project at: eternal.center / endless.center

Though it seems difficult to imagine, we are trying to produce an electronic copy of the human psyche, an artificial organism and more, an electronic real copy of yours. We believe this is possible without committing a sacrilege. There is nothing SF here. For the present, we work to put systematizes into the knowledge and experiments we have done and we continue to try to acquire new skills to improve ourselves. The artificial psyche (AP) is a kind of computerized simulation that can continue to react as long as it has the necessary energy. AP can be stored on an external environment such as a HDD. We can say somewhere that an artificial psychic is a kind of virtual organism, the most important part of it. We are aware that, it is necessary in the future to take the other legal matters, about the legal status of the artificial psyche, as far as we are concerned, as a moral duty.

I know that life is difficult to define but life cannot be such a delicate and so scholastic concept, as long as the humblest beings live. The same humblest creature has something in common with the most complex organism. Artificial psyche it has to be personalized for you and was not built using AI techniques, but a new ours AO (artificial organism) technique . A software can be much better and cheaper to keep than a living body, if that the living organism (psyche) can become a software. You can travel at the speed of light, that you are just a software, not? You are not the image in the mirror, "animation" does more, it makes the program to be you. It is he who will take you further and who can receive any kind of physical manifestation as you think it is possible or as the future technique will allow.

[Korrelan]

@ Art

I forgot to mention the original wouldn't wake up... he ded.

@ octav

Welcome octav…

We believe this is possible without committing a sacrilege.

I do… the fact you mention it means it’s relevant to you… do you?

There is nothing SF here

I agree it’s possible with our current technology to create an AP, duplicating or transferring an existing biochemical ‘psyche’ from a living human into a machine is a different matter entirely.

 

[octavianulici]

I think every man (or animal) is somewhat different from another. This means that each one has his own code, only known to him, to decipher his inner world. Copying exactly what's in his mind is not useful without that code. That code is not intelligible to anyone other than in principle. To copy someone into a machine means to have his help and be a good specialist (animatologist) to do that. Follow my website: www.eternal.center