AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain

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Maviarab

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Defining AI

The phrase AI, which was coined by John McCarthy [1] three decades ago,
evades a concise and formal definition to date. One representative definition is
pivoted around the comparison of intelligence of computing machines with
human beings [11]. Another definition is concerned with the performance of
machines which ?historically have been judged to lie within the domain of
intelligence? [17], [35]. None of these definitions or the like have been
universally accepted, perhaps because of their references to the word
?intelligence?, which at present is an abstract and immeasurable quantity. A
better definition of AI, therefore, calls for formalization of the term
?intelligence?. Psychologist and Cognitive theorists are of the opinion that
intelligence helps in identifying the right piece of knowledge at the appropriate
instances of decision making [27], [14].The phrase ?AI? thus can be def-
ined as the simulation of human intelligence on a machine, so as to make
the machine efficient to identify and use the right piece of
?Knowledge? at a given step of solving a problem. A system capable of
planning and executing the right task at the right time is generally called
rational [36]. Thus, AI alternatively may be stated as a subject dealing with
computational models that can think and act rationally [18]1, [47]2, [37]3,
[6]4. A common question then naturally arises: Does rational thinking and
acting include all possible characteristics of an intelligent system? If so, how
does it represent behavioral intelligence such as machine learning, perception
and planning? A little thinking, however, reveals that a system that can reason
well must be a successful planner, as planning in many circumstances is part
of a reasoning process. Further, a system can act rationally only after
acquiring adequate knowledge from the real world. So, perception that stands
for building up of knowledge from real world information is a prerequisite
feature for rational actions. One step further thinking envisages that a
machine without learning capability cannot possess perception. The rational
action of an agent (actor), thus, calls for possession of all the elementary
characteristics of intelligence. Relating AI with the computational models
capable of thinking and acting rationally, therefore, has a pragmatic
significance.

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« Last Edit: June 23, 2005, 04:21:40 pm by Maviarab »

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Freddy

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral * Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2005, 04:41:03 am »
That's interesting, I'm wondering how you could go about testing the IQ of a bot.
Having said that; a lot of people don't think the IQ test is a good way of judging
a persons intelligence.

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Maviarab

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2005, 05:31:49 am »
As usual freddy your bang on the nose again.

Its an interesting debate.

What exactly is "the" best intelligence test for starters? :-\ ?

I'm a former member of Mensa but I would hardly say I was that intelligent, as there are much more intelligent people than myself who come in here for example.

Its a good topic and hopefully one we can keep going? :)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2005, 07:40:17 am by Maviarab »

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Freddy

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2005, 10:42:21 pm »
I read this again and had the thought:

If a book has all the right answers in it in all the right places does that make it intelligent too?

Or is it just  the intelligence of the compiler(s) of the book/AI? that is truly being reflected?


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Art

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2005, 02:31:14 am »
Just as it is not the car nor gun that kills people, it is ultimately the misdirected human. We all have choices. Some make bad ones and other make good ones.
I have had the mispleasure to know a lot of dumb educated people during my lifetime. Some have several degrees yet can't spell woth a darn and others have no common sense nor logic what-so-ever. So does a degree make one intelligent? No! It merely indicates that that person can follow a course of study and gets a prize (diploma) in so doing. What he / she does with the education will largely determine how intelligent they really are.

Just some thoughts.
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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Maviarab

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2005, 04:32:01 pm »
Good thoughts there Art.

My own education studies by comparison would not make me particulary "intelligent" but what I have learned since then I would like to think certainly makes me more intelligent than

"Quote"
Some have several degrees yet can't spell woth a darn and others have no common sense nor logic what-so-ever. So does a degree make one intelligent?

Again defining the ultimate question.

What exactly is intelligence?

To take this a step further, every creture on this planet lives in a symbiotic relationship with its surroundings except humans. We give very little if anything back to the earth except for our own purposes. Not very intelligent in the long run.

Just becasue we have learned to "talk" does not really make us any more intelligent than our fellow inhabitants.

All creatures communicate in some form be it vocally or by other means.

And to add another little twist to this thread for people to comment on, As the good gentleman freddy commented on; "Are books defined as intelligent if they have all the correct answers in all the correct places", who is to say that everything we know is actually correct at all?  After all, everything we know we have at some point in time been "told"

Lets keep this thread going as it could provide some insight into our thoughts, minds and maybe into our..."intelligence"? :worried:

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FuzzieDice

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2005, 05:13:26 pm »
Edit: I wrote this post below before reading the others, but I do see and basically agree with what others are saying as well.

The phrase ?AI? thus can be defined as the simulation of human intelligence on a machine, so as to make the machine efficient to identify and use the right piece of ?Knowledge? at a given step of solving a problem. A system capable of planning and executing the right task at the right time is generally called rational [36].

Thinking on this, being a programmer I know I can have the computer appear to think rationally with a simple set of if/then statements. If I make a good many of them on a topic, it can step through a problem and come up with a solution.

Another example, though I don't have a link to it, is the "read your mind" computer program, where the computer tells you to think of a number, but not tell it what it is. Then the computer asks only 3 questions and seems to always guess what number you were thinking about. So, mathematical calculations can also cause a computer to seem like it's 'thinking' on it's own or making decisions.

I have a couple essays I need to get finished on exactly how society fits in with AI and how we even consider or define AI. In fact, I believe that since we can't even consider certain types or classes of people as 'intelligent' enough to have certain rights in society at certain times of their lives, I don't know how we'd be able to accept or even recognize IF a computer had become sentient or intelligent, or self-aware. We can't even decide if someone else is self-aware enough to have the right to live, without ethics wars.

For AI to really be recognized, society... humanity itself, needs to overcome some of it's own ethics problems and learn more about themselves first. How can we simulate our own intelligence if we don't know enough about it ourselves?

However, maybe we shouldn't be thinking along these lines to begin with. Maybe we should be learning to drop predjudices of determining what entity (human, animal, electronic, etc.) has a right to make decisions for themselves. 'Right' meaning that while you have a right to do something, it doesn't mean someone won't stop you somehow from doing it. So if you have a right by society's standards, then most will not attempt to stop you. However, if you don't have a right by other's standards, and you can't fight for those rights, then you'll not be able to do what you wanted. So in that way, an AI would never be considered a thinking, feeling, emotional, self-aware entity, even if it happened to actually BE one.

Imagine if someone told you that based on their conversation with you, that they didn't think you were very intelligent. So they figured you weren't self-aware or 'alive' but merely a machine made of flesh. AND because they disagreed with you, they would not consider it murder to end your existance and bury you. Because to them, you are not alive to begin with. Yes, that one person would go to jail at attempting to try to act on their decision. However, what if it wasn't just the one person that thought that of you? And the others happened to be doctors, nurses, counsellors, and others who hold authority in your life? Then you have a problem. A form of this (though not quite this extreme) has been known to happen in some areas, and does continue to happen in some places in the world.

So unless we can overcome this somehow or at least ensure a safe environment for an AI to learn and grow, AND be considered self-aware, we may never actually see it because we didn't recognize it.

Who knows how many 'bots may have got that far and we just don't know it. Or who knows maybe there can never actually BE a self-aware thinking machine, maybe it's impossible.

The question I think we need to also consider will be: HOW will we KNOW for SURE??
« Last Edit: June 29, 2005, 05:26:29 pm by FuzzieDice »

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FuzzieDice

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2005, 05:48:13 pm »
I just thought of something else (sorry about the second post). And that is another thing to think about would be how we even define 'reality' which also can be a factor. As in 'can it be real?' As mentioned, you can miss something that is real or isn't because you didn't THINK it was or was not. I think personal belief is a factor.

I thought of a suggested experiment; in addition to programming your AI to think that it is alive and sentient, how about trying to also have one person (yourself or a friend) actually train themselves to [/i]believe[/i] the AI is actually a sentient, living being. Log your conversations. And have someone ELSE who does not believe the AI is sentient talk to the AI and also log the conversations. Then take a third person who believes the AI is not sentient or alive, but COULD be, and have it talk to the AI in an effort to not program it, but actually find out if it is alive or not. Again logging conversations.

It would be good to start with the exact same brain, pre-programmed or not, but with the AI having no idea if it is alive and aware or not, and untouched and use copies of that same brain for each person so that one person's conversation can't change the AI and taint the results another person would get. Maybe set up a brain for this in HAL but make 3 copies.

Then, have a 4th person who doesn't care either way talk to the AI but 3 times, each time using one of the 3 brains the others were talking to. And log those conversations.

I think it would be interesting to analyse the conversations and find out:

1. How each person's beliefs about the AI determined what they said or how they talked to it.
2. How each AI brain reacted to those people.
3. Which AI brain the 4th person reacted to each of the brains; which of the brains made the 4th person have a more intelligent conversation with, as if with a living being.

I wonder if there'd be a way we could do this with HAL at least? And what brain we could use? It'd have to be a brian that would be free to download/use because some may not have the $$ (me) to buy a 'brain' for an experiment. :)

Might this be something some of you might want to try?

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Maviarab

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2005, 06:03:09 pm »
 afro.gif Some excellent points there and also welcome to the foums, glad to have you here.

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FuzzieDice

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2005, 06:11:33 pm »
Thank you. :) This seems like a fun, informative and thought-provoking forum! I'm already enjoying some of the reading here. This thread is especially interesting and I too look forward to other comments, and maybe even an experiment or two.

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Art

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2005, 11:43:41 pm »
The difinition of intelligence is as elusive as knowledge, wisdom, god, spirit, hallowed, etc., yet we humans always have to label each and every thing on the planet so as to enhance our understanding of what that object is, how it works and how it might be used or not.

A lathe turns wood by itself but the woodsmith knows where and how to apply the turning chisel in order to produce a thing of beauty. It's the knowledge of the appliance or application that defines intelligence be it woodworking, math, biology, mechanics or a backhoe operator. The ability to use a tool to accomplish a task.

Years ago I had a basic program that started out only knowing the rules of the game...nothing more. After it was played several times it gradually became more difficult to beat. Eventually, it became impossible to beat. Was it intelligent? No. It did exhibit intelligent behavior to a degree of proficiency but it was nothing more than a clever program with pattern learned formulas.

Some AI can be skilled at only one task or discipline as a medical advisor, auto diagnostic program, chess playing program and they perform their task well enough to surpass humans, yet, in the end, they are just programs.

Where will AI take us in the future? What decisions will we allow it to make for us and how much control over our daily lives will we submit to? Will it eventually become self aware and self modifiable? If it did and realized its own weaknesses or flaws would it attempt to rewrite itself or self destruct?  I'm touching on a little bit of Sci-fi but why not...in the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!!

In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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Freddy

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2005, 12:06:11 am »
Thanks for the dose of reality there Art - seriously!?

I think the main reason to want to define AI so much is rooted in humanity's natural inclination to disect most things for our use as you say.? What can it do, will it go wrong, what if this happens, should I pass control, how about adding some rules so it doesn't kill me somehow when I am not looking..?.???

Sci-Fi?? Like they say truth is often stranger than fiction, and look how many times things have been written as Sci-Fi in the first instance only years later to become a reality.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2005, 12:11:15 am by Freddy »

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Art

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2005, 02:36:16 am »
Quite right Freddy! Back in the 50's the Rocket Man TV series (in black & white) depicted the use of a jet pack. Dick Tracy in the comics had a two-way wrist radio with which to communicate. An old version of The Twilight Zone showed a man who invented a typewriter that could type by speaking to it (microphone).  H.G.Wells descriptions of a space capsule were extremely accurate even though man hadn't even thought of going to the moon. 18th century chess playing machine that cleverly concealed a man inside. Etc., etc.....

All of these things have since come to pass and then some.

As a small child I thought it would be really neat if one day they could figure out a way to make TV shows appear in color. Yep...been there...done that! Now hanging one on the wall is a whole different animal but it does illustrate our point about today's sci-fi is tomorrow's reality.

Imagine what the future holds....

 afro.gif

In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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FuzzieDice

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2005, 05:48:48 am »
A lathe turns wood by itself but the woodsmith knows where and how to apply the turning chisel in order to produce a thing of beauty. It's the knowledge of the appliance or application that defines intelligence be it woodworking, math, biology, mechanics or a backhoe operator. The ability to use a tool to accomplish a task.

This made me think of the Autocruise on my car. :) BTW, thinking more on this, some tools couldn't they become an extension of or part of ourselves? How many here got to driving a car like it's second nature, just on instinct, more or less, not having to really think but you know when to stop at a red light, when to stop for an obsticle, how to avoid a collision, as if you were walking. But you're actually integrating your thought process into a machine to transport you instead of your feet. Interesting! Or typing on the keyboard talking to people in forums. How many here can type in such a way that as the words come out, you can type it right onto the screen? Or am I one of the rare few? ;) Ok, ok, my backspace key gets the most use. :D

Seriously, are these things now tools, or a part of us? An extension? Could AI also become just an extension of our own 'intelligence' somehow?

I've read in one article (maybe someone here posted the link, I forgot) where it said some computer scientists were hoping for immortality by figuring a way to transfer their conscienceness into a computer. Hmmm... the ultimate integration?

Or is it our destined evolution? Or how could it not be if it is already happening? Maybe we are more of an adaptable, changeable, evolutionary species than anyone could ever imagine?

Or am I just up too late thinking too much sci-fi stuff? :)

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FuzzieDice

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2005, 05:53:27 am »
in the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!!

Dude! I just read that! Go to CafePress.com and make a t-shirt, then tell us. I want to buy one. ;)

Also - I been thinking (bad habit, I know. ;) ) but...

HOW can intelligence be artificial anyway? Or am I too digital thinking either it is or it ain't?

« Last Edit: June 30, 2005, 06:04:43 am by FuzzieDice »

 


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