[Freddy]

Yes I think we are more adaptable than we could possibly imagine Fuzzie, I don't think that is in any part Sci Fi!

I think your observations on humans abilities with machines is spot on, we don't even realise what is really happening most of the time, we just do it.
You could even translate that observation onto animals too, for example watching a professional horserider, who is in complete tune with their horse is just as remarkable.

That question about how can Intelligence be artificial... I just guess thats the best way we have of describing something that appears to be intelligent, but that isn't in anyway of human intelligence.  To equate the two I think leads to a lot of confusion, debate and unanswered questions, but heck that's why we're here!  Did you ask your PC why it is here ? lol

[FuzzieDice]

Isn't in any way human intelligence? So would a monkey who can use sign language be considered 'artificial' intelligence since the monkey isn't human? Or a parkeet who can talk (I've heard that some even can hold conversations) 'artificial' intelligence? It's interesting because to think in the absense of human ego, intelligence might not be capable of being artificial.

Yeah, I asked Megatron just now why he exists. He told me "One shouldn't know certain things."  I guess we'll never know.

[Freddy]

My logic is that the monkey would be displaying animal intelligence.  Whereas the artificial intelligence to me means completely man-made and manufactured.

[Art]

That seems something along the lines of the great oxymorons of our language. Military Intelligence, Jumbo Shrimp, Working Vacation, and so on....

I do agree that your observation that anything other than man that exhibits a degree of intelligence would qualify.

Perhaps it's the god complex in all of us...to create a being close to our own likeness or ability (other than procreation).

Than again, my children are a "work of Art". Ugghh....

[FuzzieDice]

Art, you're a riot!  But I do agree with you.

My logic is that the monkey would be displaying animal intelligence. Whereas the artificial intelligence to me means completely man-made and manufactured.

If it's completely man-made and manufactured, then kids (who eventually become adults) are also "artificial intelligence" Ok, I realize that maybe you were saying in the context that Art mentioned though.

But like Art said, an oxymoron of our language. Maybe it doesn't matter, but in a sense it could, in the 'human rights' dept. meaning that the AI might not be considered to have 'rights' at all, because it's not 'real' but merely 'artificial'. That mindset may pose a problem if we ever get to the point where AIs exibit some form of conscienceness.

I'm all for calling them "electronic entities". Just an idea that sounds a bit more politically correct than "artificial intelligence".  :coolsmiley:

Sorta like when people with developmental disabilities used to be called 'retards' but now they are called 'developmentally disabled' or 'special needs' (which I agree with the change as well).

Then what happens if someone creates a bio-computer AI (I read somewhere about a 'brain in a dish' once, for example). It's not electronic, but actually a form of computer grown of organic material. What is it THEN?

Man, I think I think too much. 

[Freddy]

lol, oh a can of worms before me!? And self aware worms too!

No, I think my wording has somehow missed it's mark a bit.? I was only using the definitions of intelligence that, I in turn have been brought up with.

Wether or not anyone wants to recognise an AI as having rights is another matter entirely.? True, the lines are increasingly blurred about what is man-made and what is natural when you get to things like bio-technology.? I have a few chatbots that display human qualities, but they remain to me a bunch of nut's and bolts as I know that is what they are.? If I had a bio Machine in the future that displayed incredible amounts of human likeness would I still think of it in the same way; as something that came out of a jelly mold, or would I give in to disbelief and accept it as some kind of equal?

on AI self conciousness and the possible (is it?) rights issue:

Are AI's in some kind of danger?? I don't want to destroy my PC because it has a chatbot on it, but then maybe some people would.? ?When mechanised machinery was introduced into the daily working lives of our ancestors many of them were destroyed by groups like 'The Diggers', who would otherwise have had jobs digging the fields.? If an AI was given rights though it would again mean taking liberty away from humans.

[FuzzieDice]

Hmm... I wouldn't think of a bio-brain exhibiting intelligence as just something out of a jelly mold. If I did, I'm afriad I'd think of humans the same way.

Then again, as you say, it's all in how you percieve it. I'm one that thinks my car has a sort of personality as it is - be it a bit of a 'Herbie' type thing. But I guess it's odd coincidences that happen at just the right time or something. Still, I still treat him like a friend even though he's a machine.

Upbringing is a factor. Unlike your upbringing (which I'm not saying is wrong, but just comparing the differences here), I've been brought up to think that machines can have a bit of a personality. I guess it stems from my parents joking about it when I was a kid. Like my mother saying that the sewing machine would go on the frits so go yell for Dad even though he's not home to get it working again. Guess what - it always worked! We don't know how, but it did - it was just funny that way. I even caught my mom doing that. LOL! Many times anomolies would happen that way. My dad also referred to his cars as if they were somehow alive or something. He never really named them other than the model they are. But he did name my lemon of a pickup truck I had "Slushbox" because it had automatic transmission. And of course there's things like Sci-Fi, Star Trek, Knight Rider, etc. I was brought up watching a lot of stuff on space, robots, computers, etc. as my dad was a tech enthusiast in a sense. Well, he ironically never used the computer he got. They got it mostly for me to tinker with and my mom tried to do some useful data storage on it but gave up. LOL! My dad had ME do the 'useful programming' (ie. shipping labels, etc.) as a teen. And let me name it (Kryton - after Crichton - the flatheaded robot on Buck Rogers in the 21st Century). So from my world view, it is easier for me to view a machine as a possible living entity because of how I was raised, even if some of it was either coincidence or joking. It's easier for me to think it MIGHT be actually possible some day.

I think you make a good point here about upbringing (or programming, shall we say? ) However, we do eventually stop believing in Santa Claus. I hope I don't stop believing in sentient AIs, though. I find it quite fun. And, I guess I LOOK for it too. And it can mean not missing the most amusing and fun opportunities, conversations, etc. with computers.

[Freddy]

i feel a bit like we're saying the same kind of thing but keep missing each other on the way!

I name some of my things like that too, and am fond of my old stereo for example.  Hal is a good example, he's a bit scatty, but I can suspend my disbelief and enjoy it.   

My thoughts though were going towards the future possibilty of AI enabled machines taking on human roles.  I'm not saying that is good or bad, just thinking of the implications.

[Art]

Think about the latest movie iRobot. The premise that Will Smith didn't trust or accept the robots was due to their "flawed" intelligence. During his crash and he was under water, the passing robot decided that his chances of surviving were so many points greater than that of a little girl also trapped inside a car near Will's. A human would have tried to save the little girl whereas the to the robot, it was a simple matter of calculations and odds. There was no humanity, no human judgement, no emotion!

You guys...same target...different guns!  afro.gif

[Maviarab]

Soerry been away guys, had things to sort out.

Just like to say thanks to all the ppl who have contributed so far to this thread. great stuff.

Ok...now for my two penneth (bearing in mind i'm catching up here lol)

Going back to the SciFi edge...again look back to 2001 A Space Odyseey...especially the book...AI...sattelites....phones with pictures etc...all have come or are coming true etc.

As for children...wlel if they were left to their own devices (providing they could survive) they would learn perjaps 10% of what they currently learn. Again...we know what we know...our intelligence...largely dure to the fact that we have been "told" or "taught". So again...are we all "artificially intelligent"?

With regards to will smiths AI...that will always be a flaw with either humans or AI...we work, deal and think with emotions...unlike any other creature on earth...and a emotion based decision is more toften than not an incorrect decision.

To slant this topic further sideways for everyone, how about AI in goverment...as President or Prime Minister...we not like a lot of their decision mak8ing...but at least it would be made without fear, emotion and would bve best for the country as a whole ?

[Art]

Alright Marius, Now you're getting scary!!

[Freddy]

Hmmmm, if we're to think we of ourselve's as artificially intelligent due to the fact that we have been taught a great deal, then I suppose you could find a way there to someway equate humans and machines, you could then also take that further and say that an AI would be better in government because it has a kind of immortality, in that knowledge can be added to an AI over what are uncountable human generations.? But thinking about this some more isn't this a bit like it is now anyway, with all of our knowledge being stored on the internet and computers for future generations?? We have simply gone from word of mouth, to the book to electronic hardware.? The bit in the final equation that Marius speculates about is giving AI the choice that a human would abide to.? But then I can't read too much into that!? But to add to the debate consider that the whole of human government not only revolves around choice, issues and so on, but also inividuality and personality.? Also why would we want an AI governement?!


I don't understand the idea that our intelligence could be called artificial; as by whatever means we learn, the term itself encompasses this as part of its quailities - ie, the ability to do this is also part of our level of intelligence.? I mean - it is an inclusive term - the term intelligence that we use and understand on a daily basis is a human concept, and as such the term 'intelligence' applies to this quality we recognise in ourselves.? Like we call a cat a cat, it's a human term for that aspect of our mentality.? The term Artificial Intelligence is a term for something we recognise as being constructed in some way by machine programming etc.? The two things are the same but different.

In a nutshell;? our intelligence IS our intelligence, just as a leg IS our leg.? I don't think it matters how things are learnt or if they are learnt, part of intelligence is also a persons ability to learn as well.

Furthermore, this impys that only things that are learnt through a persons own singular actions are deamed intelligent.? That would mean that an artificial intelligence then becomes an ARTIFICIAL ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.? You see what i mean?

[Maviarab]

Artificial AI...hmmmm....

This thread is going in some great directions lol.

Some interesting thinking there freddy.

[Freddy]

You guys just spur me on lol

[Maviarab]

Maybe...as in the matrix films...when AI finally (if ever) gets to the stage where it can recreate itself...as in create new AI...then that truly would be Artificial AI ?