AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain

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FuzzieDice

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2005, 11:03:26 pm »
Quote from: Art
It seemed to me that everytime the system got "infected" it had to be reformated & rebooted, then the whole thing started all over again. Maybe they were trying to get it right.

Makes me wonder if when we stop existing as humans if it means we are being "reformatted" (since we don't remember being alive before) and when we are born, we've "rebooted"? Hmmm....

Quote from: Freddy
Whatever the case may be I think you're right that perhaps we are just getting confused by language.  The fact is Ai is here and is a reality.

I can agree there. And if we get confused by language, how do we get an AI NOT to be confused by language?

Quote from: Art
What also strikes me funny are those folks who claim they want nothing to do with computers or programming, yet they key in and activate a wireless garage door opener, set instructions for the microwave, program the VCR to record, program the thermostat to go on and off at specified times, etc. They're really programming a mini computer and don't realize it!

I remember an old saying we had when we first got VCRs in the homes for the first time and my dad got one. By then shortly after we also got a TRS-80 Model III computer. I of course was learning to program (age 14). I would have the darndest time though, trying to work the VCR. So the joke was that I could program a computer but I couldn't program a VCR! ;D

Quote from: Art
Now, if it would only talk back and scare them!!! :shocked1:

Actually, some DO! ;D How many times have those very same people had to navigate through automated phone menu systems! Some of which are even voice-activated to begin with! Or when a telemarketer computer calls you at meal time.

Quote from: Maviarab
we are giving nothing back to the never endinbg cycle...we take take take and return nothing.

I'm not so sure about that. We poo, that is biodegradable and eventually somehow gets filtered out of the flushwater and into the earth or somewhere like that. When our bodies sweat, we put out water into the air, which may be helping the environment somehow. When we die, even if we are in a casket, it all biodegrades into the soil. Some unfortunate folks have become snacks and meals for other animals and fish. Or even bacteria - they feed off us too at times, and I'm sure many of us have supported their lives for a spell, if not maybe a whole lifetime of a bacteria (I hear some don't live long anyway and that some medications basically sterilize them? Or something?) And don't forget us being a catalyst to the destruction of some life forms which allow others to live because if we didn't kill off one time the others wouldn't have thrived.

I agree we sure are, as humans, spreading the earth like a cancer. But who knows if this was supposed to happen. Well either way it has happened and maybe for a reason. Maybe it's just all part of the whole cycle of stuff.

Quote from: Maviarab
As for the technology Art described.....we live our lives ruled by technology, everything we do has its roots in programing od sorts. Even switching on a light...as simple as it seems...is controlled by a computer somewhere. What we all do (having our simple lives) if all this was to vanish and we were forced back 500 years ?

Interesting point! :) Right now the phone company is outside doing something with the lines at the pole that feeds my apartment. I hope I'll be even able to post this! My work depends on internet connection, which is controlled at a switching station at a phone center. We depend on electricity to keep our appliances running so we can preserve and cook meals to survive. We depend on the water treatment plants to remove our waste and provide water to drink and wash with. And let's not forget our ever-faithful robotic iron horses (cars - esp. now days with computers to run their engines or they aren't going anywhere and Auto Cruise so we let the car keep the speed and we just steer instead) who get us to where we'd like to go, and back again.

If we lost all that? Well, I remember the "Black Thursday" we had in August one year when the whole NorthEast lost power for around 6 hours or some areas even longer. Hot summer day, no fan, there WAS phone and cell service, and for the first time ever, I could get the next COUNTRY's radio station (ok, ot be fair, I'm in Rochester, NY, just across the river from Canada ;) ) It wasn't all chaos. People were helping one another, taking extra time and letting people go first in rush hour traffic (outtage happened around 4pm - 5pm, I think it was), some people even got out of their cars and started directing traffic to help out, until an officer could arrive to take over. These people were commemorated as heros of sorts (and rightfully so). People suddenly were nice to one another. Checking in on their neighbors, getting things for people that need help, etc. Then when technology came back "on". It was business as usual. You know, selfishness, road rage, "I gotta get there NOW", "I don't have time to help you..." etc. Odd lesson that day gave, I tell you!

WOULD we be forced back 500 years or would it be a wake-up call for some?

Also, I remember reading about the Ark of the Covenant and some scientific theories, and also discoveries of other artifacts in the Mid-East. It seems batteries and portable power WAS possible and in some use even way back then! And they think the Ark was some kind of power-generated tesla-coil type thing that shot arcs of electricity at their enemies, and that is why people were instructed not to open it or anything. It was unstable power and could shoot out at random if not handled properly. They I think enclosed it in wood and gold.

Then there's the theories of the supposedly high-tech lost world of "Atlantis". And other civilizations like "Myans" and others that are believed to have possessed higher "technological advances" than most of the rest of their immediate region if not the world.

So, ARE we any different? Perhaps some of that information these ancient people found out about, they shared with some and after they were extinct or destroyed, etc. others that heard about it passed it on, others studied it and we may be reeping the benefits of ancient civilizations' studies in Technology.

Though I don't think they had Computers way back. I hear the first "computer" as an abacus, or ancient calculator. But I don't "count" it (pun kinda intended ;) ) because a human still has to manipulate the stones on it and I see it more as a tool. They could have used their fingers or pepples. The closest first computer I think was invented by Babbage.

However, we may have had AI robots in the victorian era. Some believe this actually is true (though I think it's a Sci-Fi story, anyone know?)

http://www.bigredhair.com/boilerplate/

And, Pen and Paper is considered "technology" as compared to stick and dirt. ;)

Quote from: Art
Yes barbers would often cut a person so they could let off some blood as too much blood was thought to be bad for a person. (thus the red and white striped barber poles).

That's because some were too wimpy and yet too proud to admit they had queeziness about going to the local lake/river and letting the leaches do the work. ;)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2005, 11:12:31 pm by FuzzieDice »

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Maviarab

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2005, 09:10:11 pm »
woah Fuzzy lol

A lot to take in and digest there....some excellent points though.

Will have to post back when I;'ve taken it all in fully.

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FuzzieDice

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2005, 07:24:56 am »
Sorry for the long post. I'll try to keep things a bit more simple next time. ;)

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Freddy

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2005, 03:52:09 am »
Okay lets get this one going again, it's a great thread this one.

The Victorian Robot Boiler Plate hey?? Well I've not heard of it, but had a look at that site and well thats certainly very interesting..

On the first computers, hmmm I'm tempted to go for the literal route there again ( ;D) and suggest that the word 'computer' is a name for something that computes.? In that case an abacus can be called a computer only in so much as that it helps compute, as we tend to think of computers more as a thing that can work something out without intervention, ie we don't have to move the beads.? I guess the abacus developed from using stones... so what replaced the abacus?? Somewhere along that line there will be the transition from tool to automation...the point where you could walk away and think to yourself "hmmm thats being done for me, not by me".? I suppose then that is the first real computer.? Is this the technological equivalent of Evolution?? Could the Victorians have mastered the intricate mechanics of the human walk ?? Will Flash Gordon return next week ?



« Last Edit: August 07, 2005, 06:38:29 am by Freddy »

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FuzzieDice

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2005, 03:52:58 pm »
It looked like a Sci-Fi site to me too. :)

As for the abacus, I guess that would be an ancestor of the modern-day calculator. We had to punch in the numbers, and there's the answer. In some computer history texts, the abacus is listed as the "first" computer. Though personally, I always assumed that Babbage's computer was the first 'real' computer.

Then again, I'm from the era where a 'computer' has a keyboard, monitor, cpu, and memory, and can do more than simple calculations, but rather, store data, play games, etc. :)

Now, computers can do more than even that as well, controlling things inside of appliances, cars, etc.

As for could the Victorians have done something like Boilerplate for real... I wouldn't really thought it possible, but who knows. Some very interesting things were discovered back then. And then what about these lost cities and civilizations that were said to be 'technologically advanced' compared to the rest of the world (and are now gone)? What had they created?

I once read online somewhere (probably can still google for it if one is looking) that the Arc of the Covenant was some kind of actual weapon, like a Tesla Coil type thing (and that's why the warnings about getting too close as it was supposedly (and if so, understandably) unstable. I also read that escavations had dug up what was probably the first battery (energy storage cell) that was created back in those pre-biblical days or whatever. I don't have time to google for these but unless they took these sites down, the info should still be out there somewhere. :)

Interesting stuff, especially when looking into lost civilizations and their technology. Makes one wonder if it's been done before, and since destroyed and we're just starting all over again. Or if it was never really done, but just what was learned back then was an essential piece of the puzzle for us to know to build what we have today (I'm thinking more the latter is most possible).

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FuzzieDice

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2005, 07:01:25 pm »
Ok, just as I had suspected:

http://www.bigredhair.com/boilerplate/bp.clipping.html

Boilerplate was never invented. :) But if you see the site at bigredhair.com/boilerplate/ itself, it's quite something else. The way the guy did this up, seems almost real. If you read the letters section you'll see some others were actually wondering if it was real.

I kinda didn't think it was, but like I mentioned about the 'unknown civilizations' - one can never really be sure.

Anyway, was interesting to look into, nonetheless. :)

Anyone know when the first real robot was made and which one it was?


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Freddy

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2005, 09:32:56 pm »
I looked for more on the boilerplate and too found it was a spoof site, I was almost fooled there, that's a great site though in some ways.  I looked at the old photos first, and did all the shadow examination and was pretty much convinced the photos were genuine.  They probably were but not Victorian!  Shame i don't have a carbon-dating machine handy, but what gave it away for me was the supposed oil painting, which was clearly done on a PC.

The other thing that got me suspicious is that I doubted the Victorians could have got something mechanical to walk on two legs, when this has been such a problem for modern robot builders.  Then I saw the picture of the ice-breaking and my mind finally went ...hang on a minute!!? lol

Liked all the history especially, very convincing.


Wonder how he did the army photos, clever photo-editing or maybe at some battle re-enactment?   ;D

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Maviarab

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2005, 07:16:29 pm »
Sorry been away guys,  :sorry:

Had some presing matters at hand to deal with.

This tthread gets better all the time.

Keeo up the great thinking.

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FuzzieDice

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2005, 07:29:05 pm »
Freddy - I agree that the idea of a walking robot that fought in army battles seemed way too fantastic to be real to me too. Especially the look of the robot being hilarious. :) Note the "mysteriously disappeared" story? ;)

But yeah, the site was so well done it was amazing. This guy has a talent for telling photo-rich stories.

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Freddy

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #54 on: August 09, 2005, 03:06:52 am »
Maybe that robot type thing was made in Victorian times, but was actually some kind of mascot? :huh1:
« Last Edit: August 09, 2005, 03:09:14 am by Freddy »

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FuzzieDice

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #55 on: August 09, 2005, 09:05:25 pm »
The guy admits in the site link above that he concocted the robot, photoshopped the pictures and made up the whole story though. :)

As for a mascot, that would have been a neat idea. :)

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FuzzieDice

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2005, 06:42:31 am »
This thread is getting long but something that happened to me recently made me think this is also a good thread to mention it (if not, let me know and I can start another thread or something).

Someone I know recently had a psychotic episode and is in the hospital. This person was getting rather strange for a couple months now. I read a bit of the Schitzophrenia infomation found on the internet after a mutual acquaintence informed me of this person's condition and I wonderd if that aquaintence was right which is why I looked it up and the symptoms do seem to match.

Anyway, this person with the illness was going on and on believing they were something or another (like a diety or an authority), etc. and did at times hint at and talk about violence. Anyway, this person also would go on and on about other things and sometimes couldn't stay on topic no matter what. Just rambling on about nothing.

It made me think though... of how Ultra Hal Assistant 5 (at least the default brain) would do primarily the same thing. I was thinking...

1. If methods we use with AIs in teaching them may help people with mental illnesses and
2. If we can use the behavior of AIs to safely research and find treatments for (and better understand) mental illness?

I think AI can have a good possibility for research in finding treatments or even cures for people with disabilities, even physical or even mental ones.

Ideas? Thoughts on this?

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Maviarab

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2005, 09:33:52 pm »
Fuzzie,

 :sunny: woah thats a great thought. (Sorry to hear about your friend btw)

It really is a good thought that...the relation between someone who may be mentally unbalanced and the "new & uneducated" Hal...both are very similar in many ways.

Anyone else have thoughts on this subject?

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Freddy

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2005, 09:39:05 pm »
...interesting. ?

It sounds like Hal could almost be classed as Psychotic, in that it displays no ordered thinking or apparent connections sometimes. ?I know little about Psychology, but a Psychotic episode has many different manifestations, it doesn't mean for example that the person is a violent axe murderer or something! ?What is seems to ammount to is a confused understanding of reality and behaviour that gets locked into a set pattern or belief, like someone having a false sense of identity - and in worse cases developing into multiple ones.  What I do know that you may find comforting is that it is a lot more common than a lot of people think, so good luck to your friend, it can happen to anyone.

I have seen that some AI's have been used in this field. ?The whole concept of AI involves understanding the human brain and it's workings so I can't help think that this would be a useful tool for this field, though I'm not sure to what extent it has been used so far.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2005, 09:46:28 pm by Freddy »

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Art

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Re: AI & Softputing Behavioral & Cognitive Modeling of the Human Brain
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2005, 01:00:11 am »

One AI that is of a psychotic, demented, twisted nature is:

Saucy Jacky is a chatterbot with the mind and personality of Jack the Ripper, the nineteenth centruy serial killer. Talk to saucy Jacky. Ask him where, why, even how he committed these vicious crimes. Get into his frightfully warped mind and see if you can solve a mystery that has stumped historians and criminologists for over a hundred years.
 
http://www.triumphpc.com/jack-the-ripper/

OK...it's just a chatbot ... so give it a go.
 :uglystupid2:
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

 


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