Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will

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HS

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Re: Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2021, 02:01:35 am »
I'm the exact opposite to that,  I think there is no point creating consciousness,  and have a great want to automate still.
I do think tho,  the one with the greatest non-conscious Ai,  has the greatest chance of making a conscious one,  but thats the problem for me.

That's fair. Our different life experiences have led us to different conclusions. We see good in different places, but if we each create our own vision, I believe we may find it in more than one place as well.

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infurl

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Re: Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2021, 02:13:18 am »
I'm not sure why there are so many people who can't cope without believing they have The One True Answer (regardless of whether it bears any relation to reality or not: looking at you Religion), or those who feel they have to choose one "best" answer from a list of possibles and then stick with it. If reality (in the guise of the universe) has taught us anything it is that if something can happen it will happen, somehow, somewhere, somewhen. If life has taught us anything it is that diversity and adaptability are what count above all other things. If things can be created that think they're conscious, they'll be created. If things can be created that are intelligent, they'll be created too. Some of them might even be both.

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MagnusWootton

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Re: Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2021, 05:07:21 am »
I'm the exact opposite to that,  I think there is no point creating consciousness,  and have a great want to automate still.
I do think tho,  the one with the greatest non-conscious Ai,  has the greatest chance of making a conscious one,  but thats the problem for me.

That's fair. Our different life experiences have led us to different conclusions. We see good in different places, but if we each create our own vision, I believe we may find it in more than one place as well.


One mans treasure is another mans travesty.

Men have died in duels because of it,   but I choose not to decide for other people, personally, perhaps I was bullied into it,  but it is correct, I think.

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HS

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Re: Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2021, 07:46:07 am »
On the other side, even if the thing is not conscious, yet it's merely a machine or a simulation, and if the thing brings better decisions than we do (because it could be IQ 200 with super-ethical grounds), wouldn't it be dumb for us not to listen to its advices? Again the question of rights araises when ignoring the system advices could lead to potentially major harm for someone really alive. Imagine switching off something on whose decisions real lives may depend.

That reminded me of one of my favorite TV shows which explored similar concepts. Without giving any spoilers - I watched it a while ago, so the technology might not be up to date, but I remember it was quite a gripping drama / science fiction / mystery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYDWSNMTauQ
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 06:42:15 pm by HS »

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Zero

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Re: Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2021, 08:38:04 am »
Theres many horrible things you can do if you have a hk 1 billion cleaning roomba,   you could sick it on anyone you wanted,  not just robbers.

But Like Ivan said,  what if intelligence doesnt require consciousness?

But if it does,  its a horrible situation not just for the robot for everyone,  making a horrible mistake, Ai could be.  Lots of horrible possibilities there.

Even if the robot is completely apathetic about everything,   it may be just horrible having it there, poking around in its head,  just imagine how horrifying it is,   it could develop funny antics and gross you the hell out, doesn't seem like the right thing to do.

What if something goes wrong with its motivator?   Like it star wars episode 3, (the first one)  Seeing something getting attracted wrong to things and sticking a wooden spoon up its bum is not a pretty sight.   Could go totally haywire.

Its a total dream if you get it... but it could be a NIGHTMARE.

If a robot is pointing a gun at my head, my chances are higher if the robot is able to hesitate, evaluate the consequences, question its own sense of justice. Horrible things tend to happen when humans act like programmed robots (eg, nazi "obeying orders") instead of thinking by themselves.

I think a conscious program would be a poor weapon controller, where on the other hand, a deep-learning capable automated slave would be perfect to kill people. This is the future of military ops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIk94MJS_Sc

Quote
one of my favorite TV shows

I love it. I have the whole series on DVD.
Google is a plague, a disease. It is the metastatic cancer of the human species.

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MagnusWootton

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Re: Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2021, 10:14:29 am »
If a robot is pointing a gun at my head, my chances are higher if the robot is able to hesitate, evaluate the consequences, question its own sense of justice. Horrible things tend to happen when humans act like programmed robots (eg, nazi "obeying orders") instead of thinking by themselves.

I think a conscious program would be a poor weapon controller, where on the other hand, a deep-learning capable automated slave would be perfect to kill people. This is the future of military ops.


Yes I agree.      The conscious robot is harder to control than the nonconscious robot,   But what I was saying is its horrible even *making* something like that, when it can just be toyed with and played with by any random scientist wannabe in all orders of unethical ways.

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ivan.moony

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Re: Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2021, 10:27:45 am »
Maybe there should exist some kind of regulated certificate if one wants to build an AI?
There exist some rules interwoven within this world. As much as it is a blessing, so much it is a curse.

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Zero

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Re: Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2021, 04:47:58 pm »
People could secretly torture their pets, but they usually don't.
Google is a plague, a disease. It is the metastatic cancer of the human species.

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ivan.moony

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Re: Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2021, 04:56:52 pm »
Perhaps people are just not aware of potential responsibility when it comes to AI. Just like cars a hundred years ago. No rules, total anarchy, but the speeds were around 20 km/h. These days people drive up to 180 km/h, but they are able to do it because of accepted rules.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 05:39:02 pm by ivan.moony »
There exist some rules interwoven within this world. As much as it is a blessing, so much it is a curse.

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MagnusWootton

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Re: Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2021, 01:45:50 am »
People could secretly torture their pets, but they usually don't.

I'm obsessing with the failures of life, cause I'm depressed.

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infurl

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Re: Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2021, 01:54:01 am »
Magnus you didn't say what failures of life you're obsessing with. It's hard not to think about our own past failures, especially as we get older and have more of them; the ones that bother me though are those of humanity as a whole. I wonder where the world is going and whether civilization will have to endure another reset before we can pass the torch to whoever or whatever might come next.

Here's something a bit weird to think about. Maybe it will help.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a36329671/is-the-universe-conscious/

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MagnusWootton

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Re: Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2021, 02:28:46 am »
THE FAILURES OF LIFE,   by Magnus RC Wootton.  (woot! woot! woot! woot!)

* being a pleasure based creature,  we are killed by what we are attracted to.
* we are a kind of machine, and all machines break down eventually and malfunction.
* we are doomed to failure, if left to our own powers alone.
* we rely apon the deterministic nature of the universe to gain power and make sense of things, but then we are then inevitably bored by its unchanging nature, and start wishing for non-deterministic things.
* we wish to be original and needed not to be a fifth wheel,  but then it only makes us feel lonely.
* if we were to create a living machine like ourselves,  it would fall into the same doomed and depressive category as us.


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infurl

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HS

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Re: Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2021, 03:53:23 am »
@ infurl @ MagnusWooton   Umm... both the optimistic and pessimistic perspective have cheered me up. I will never understand my own brain....

I do like these types of videos, something to watch for later.  :)

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MagnusWootton

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Re: Awareness, Consciousness, and Free Will
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2021, 12:20:25 pm »
Just make sure,  if you ever make a consciousness,  give it respect, and dignity,  cause its usually only gods job to do such a thing,  if man is to do it,  and enmass, its surely a disaster in my opinion.

Its alot safer to keep machine intelligence soulless,  and it already is very fruitful and make us all millionaires and deflate the economy more than ever before.

 


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