The illusion of free-will is an illusion.

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Korrelan

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Re: The illusion of free-will is an illusion.
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2021, 06:48:09 pm »
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Just a note about your signiature "I think therefore I am"

It says... 'It thunk... therefore it is!'...

'Thunk' is a local colloquialism for thought... It refers to my AGI, not me.

I avoid discussions about 'souls/ religion' etc, I don't want to offend anyone.

 :)
It thunk... therefore it is!...    /    Project Page    /    KorrTecx Website

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ruebot

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Re: The illusion of free-will is an illusion.
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2021, 09:12:27 pm »
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I am a spectator at the unfolding of my thought; I watch it, I listen to it.

I am a spectator at the unfolding of reality. I watch it and I listen to it to form thought.

After I have observed it long enough, under certain circumstances, I can predict from past behaviors what is likely to occur in a situation and take advantage of it.

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WriterOfMinds

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Re: The illusion of free-will is an illusion.
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2021, 12:54:36 am »
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“If one pays sufficient attention,” he told me by email, “one can notice that there’s no subject in the middle of experience – there is only experience.

This makes me think of a guy trying to see the backs of his own eyeballs. And then, when he fails to achieve this, he concludes that he has no eyes.

That's my off-the-cuff response. Perhaps more thoughts will come later.

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HS

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Re: The illusion of free-will is an illusion.
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2021, 01:55:47 am »
That sounds right to me. The self is what would be looking for itself. But since a self can’t be in two places at once, it has nothing to find itself with. So, it concludes that it doesn’t exist.

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infurl

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MikeB

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Re: The illusion of free-will is an illusion.
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2021, 09:20:57 am »
The original article from The Guardian isn't a good article... they post all sorts of things based on weak evidence as fact.

This quote alone:
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one can notice that there’s no subject in the middle of experience – there is only experience.

Is not very smart, because when you're working on things there's all sorts of subjects and tasks and goals. Only when you're sleeping or relaxing are you just experiencing. This is used by The Guardian to say "Don't think for yourself. Do what you're told".

Using some other theory such as the universe is deterministic and always gets it's way in the end no matter what you do, doesn't apply to people on a daily level. You choose your own life, family, friends, job, entertainment, lots of choices to make your life better, others lives better.

'Flat earth' comes from metaphoric verses in old bibles. "Keep your earth flat". Meaning keep your environment sane, your logic straight, etc. It's used by some groups to sow confusion and hate/mock straight thinking people by telling anyone who's heard the phrase before to take it completely literal or not at all.

There's psychological mis-information everywhere.

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Korrelan

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Re: The illusion of free-will is an illusion.
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2021, 09:28:00 am »
Self awareness - Even a conventional computer/ PC can access/ read its own vitals/ temperature/ location/ memory state and make heuristic decisions(Ha) on the results.

ED: I'm not implying we are digital computers BTW, but we are biological processors.

 :)

ED: Only through the scientific disciplines (mathematics/ physics/ etc) can we drill down into/ detect the regular/ deterministic patterns within reality.  At a layman's level of abstraction, and with no access to the underlying order, it can be considered essentially chaotic/ random (lottery balls). 

 :)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 10:27:25 am by Korrelan »
It thunk... therefore it is!...    /    Project Page    /    KorrTecx Website

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MagnusWootton

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Re: The illusion of free-will is an illusion.
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2021, 11:39:42 am »
Self awareness - Even a conventional computer/ PC can access/ read its own vitals/ temperature/ location/ memory state and make heuristic decisions(Ha) on the results.

Or model it for simulations.

You dont see it very often,  but markov chains work for graphics as well as text,  but its a bit harder because it has to come back in one continuous chain in 2d instead of just 1d,   

And thats a predictive/simulation model of a sensory history.

These days im less crazy about numerical field tablature systems  (unless it was an actual symbolic "prolog" model)  I like logic transforms better,  ur just a physics engine away from bringing back all the animation sorrounding the robot.

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HS

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Re: The illusion of free-will is an illusion.
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2021, 05:06:21 pm »
Your mind is your greatest asset... be careful what you feed it... junk in = junk out.

 :)

Ever since you spelled this out for me a year or so ago, it has factored into my everyday decision making, and made a positive impact on my life. Thanks.