Ai Dreams Forum

Artificial Intelligence => General AI Discussion => Topic started by: HS on July 17, 2021, 08:04:02 pm

Title: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: HS on July 17, 2021, 08:04:02 pm
What are some of your favorite fictional characters out there? If an AI was developed which could replicate a fictional personality, would the favorite characters be the ones with the best influence on the real world?
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: chattable on July 17, 2021, 10:35:50 pm
i liked zotoh zhaan from farscape.
i liked zira from the old planet of the apes movie.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: MagnusWootton on July 18, 2021, 05:23:40 am
Make an ACME robot looney t00ns road runner.  8)
*BEEPBEEP*

Some famous actor ppl like - But im not sure if they would be that glad you made a version of them behind their back.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: HS on July 18, 2021, 07:49:54 am
I was thinking it could use open source text. Imagine a virtual assistant like Alexa, but with the personality of Dracula or Don Quixote.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: MagnusWootton on July 18, 2021, 08:13:39 am
I guess its all possible with an infinite amount of processing power!

But how do you do it without it,  thats the question.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: HS on July 18, 2021, 09:07:40 am
Maybe processing is the wrong approach for dealing with a system that's more complex than yourself. Instead of trying to work on the consequences of an entire universe, an AI could let the complexity of an entire universe work on it.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: MagnusWootton on July 18, 2021, 10:05:32 am
You never know tho,   if someone ever gets a quantum computer to work,  well have the processing requirement.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: yotamarker on July 19, 2021, 04:06:00 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR64Xn5syrw
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: MagnusWootton on July 19, 2021, 04:15:27 pm
Something that manga reminds me of,  is how in real life those pretty girls all just get thrown to the wolves, like pieces of rubbish.   :'(
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: ivan.moony on July 19, 2021, 07:03:58 pm
Don't laugh, but... how about Jesus, or Muhammad, or Manitu, Buddha, or any other religious embodiment?

Do we know enough about them to reconstruct their personalities? But I'm afraid it's not gonna happen with today's technology. What we have now are only a fistful of huge stimulus-response databases like Reddit, Facebook, or Twitter to train our ANNs on them. In other words, we get only a blend of mass conversational pieces, and some intelligence representation we can extract out of them.

But some other thing tickles my imagination. It should be possible to get an empty personality, and raise it with care, like our own child. Once it reaches its adulthood, such a being would have an empathy of a human combined with superpowers of machines. Would it be a good life? Maybe if it could intellectually reproduce itself, maybe then it wouldn't be lonely. And would it *feel* anything? Well, that's another valuable question.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: HS on July 19, 2021, 08:42:45 pm
Some thought provoking ideas there, ivan. I will keep thinking about it, the question of personality is interesting. Another option occurred to me; a chameleon personality, maybe that would be the opposite of an empty personality. But rather than being a deceitful trait, with the intelligence being out for its own short term gain, the reason for not being consistent would be to most positively influence individual experience. So it would become whatever the optimal personality was in a given situation.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: MagnusWootton on July 19, 2021, 08:51:29 pm
I love Ai frankenstien stories.

The computer man goes about the place always going for the highest score,  whatever brings it about in his generated model, both made from fantasy based apon what it doesnt know is wrong yet, but pleases the system,  and constrainment based apon what it does, always to bring true something instinctual it is started with, that cannot ever be defied by the system, or generated further apon in any larger way, but only to fill in the details.

AIXI.

You think thats insane,  my life is even crazier.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: ivan.moony on July 19, 2021, 09:04:19 pm
Some thought provoking ideas there, ivan. I will keep thinking about it, the question of personality is interesting. Another option occurred to me; a chameleon personality, maybe that would be the opposite of an empty personality. But rather than being a deceitful trait, with the intelligence being out for its own short term gain, the reason for not being consistent would be to most positively influence individual experience. So it would become whatever the optimal personality was in a given situation.

Should humanity trust the chameleon personality?
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: MagnusWootton on July 19, 2021, 10:06:55 pm
Don't laugh, but... how about Jesus, or Muhammad, or Manitu, Buddha, or any other religious embodiment?

Do we know enough about them to reconstruct their personalities? But I'm afraid it's not gonna happen with today's technology. What we have now are only a fistful of huge stimulus-response databases like Reddit, Facebook, or Twitter to train our ANNs on them. In other words, we get only a blend of mass conversational pieces, and some intelligence representation we can extract out of them.

But some other thing tickles my imagination. It should be possible to get an empty personality, and raise it with care, like our own child. Once it reaches its adulthood, such a being would have an empathy of a human combined with superpowers of machines. Would it be a good life? Maybe if it could intellectually reproduce itself, maybe then it wouldn't be lonely. And would it *feel* anything? Well, that's another valuable question.

Yes, you can definitely make a warlord out of the computer, for what little difference itll make.  Muhammad was always getting his ass kicked by the only man who could defeat him, reducing his army of battle monkeys to shitheads that just stick their arses in the air every sundown.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: HS on July 19, 2021, 10:42:48 pm
Should humanity trust the chameleon personality?

Not necessarily. The AI would be trustworthy, but requiring trust would sometimes go against it's primary objective. The fundamental environmental variable to optimize is experience. Variety being the spice of life, I think it would make sense for it to adapt itself to the needs of an individual's psychology. If someone enjoyed being a conspiracy theorist, the AI would go along with that, and join in that game.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: ivan.moony on July 19, 2021, 11:17:32 pm
Just as a thought experiment, how to achieve the chameleon personality? How to train it if it is going to be implemented by ANN? If it is interacting with entirely new person, what should it do then?
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: MagnusWootton on July 19, 2021, 11:22:47 pm
Should humanity trust the chameleon personality?

Not necessarily. The AI would be trustworthy, but requiring trust would sometimes go against it's primary objective. The fundamental environmental variable to optimize is experience. Variety being the spice of life, I think it would make sense for it to adapt itself to the needs of an individual's psychology. If someone enjoyed being a conspiracy theorist, the AI would go along with that, and join in that game.

Experience eh?     Is that the golden rule?
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: HS on July 19, 2021, 11:31:05 pm
Experience eh?     Is that the golden rule?

Yes, I believe being a positive influence on experience is what all worthwhile goals are rooted in.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: MagnusWootton on July 20, 2021, 12:25:07 am
With all this crazy business about this "1 reason" for things,  as a human,  it seems to be many rules that I occupy, and its one of the traits that I hold above artificial intelligence,   we make the metric from our "near absolute magic holiest of holys sans the black man, you know what i mean.", the computer follows the metric.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: HS on July 20, 2021, 01:38:15 am
Just as a thought experiment, how to achieve the chameleon personality? How to train it if it is going to be implemented by ANN? If it is interacting with entirely new person, what should it do then?

My first thought was to use some kind of real time mirroring. Mirror neurons in humans play a role in learning new skills by example. When you observe another's actions, the same neurons fire as if you were the one performing those actions. This allows you to understand others by using yourself as a template, and might also play a role in empathy, which could be seen as holding a more complete understanding of others in your head, from a first person point of view.

For some reason I'm always a bit resistant to approaches which are supposed to function from huge quantities of pre-learned data. I have the sense that the right kind of system would do just fine, even if it barely knew anything at the start. All it would need, would be mechanisms capable of similar experiences to most life forms, and the real time mirroring of those life forms in the first person, using its own resulting experience as a template.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: MagnusWootton on July 20, 2021, 01:46:17 am
With AIXI reasoning...

the other person has its own model, separate from what it does for itself,  but if it fantasizes for itself, it also does it for the other persons model as well, in its *OWN* favour.
Like if it wanted sex, in its mind it would always get it.  (Not that robots have sex, unless some sick bastard makes it,  like the deranged god that made us. but after all the posts about all the robot sex here ive got it stuck in my thinking now myself.  dratski)
If it ever gives itself too easy a win,  the system will cause a poor prediction, and it will adjust it straight away as soon as its contradicted of what it thought/predicted.

But maybe it doesnt work,  that if it doesnt have some kind of initial database for itself, it wont generate anything,    if I havent learnt it, I cant do it, and I need to be able to do it, to learn it, catch 22.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: chattable on July 20, 2021, 12:08:00 pm
having an initial database makes the ai personality learn faster.
starting off with no knowledge takes longer.
maybe one ai personality could tranfer it's knowledge to another one.
actions should be more pleasurable than daydreams for the ai personality.
role play actions should be more pleasurable than daydreaming.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: HS on July 21, 2021, 08:36:32 pm
having an initial database makes the ai personality learn faster.
starting off with no knowledge takes longer.

I still think that an AI could have real time understanding without an exhaustive database. Plus humans learn the fastest in the beginning, when they have little knowledge, and slower with time as they gain it...

Knowledge is helpful but I think it gets in the way of understanding. We can take a concept from one situation and try to apply it to another one, but this is a shortcut, useful in certain situations, though never completely accurate. The more knowledge we have, the more we tend to perform this fast but false modeling. What I'm interested in is getting the AI to have the greatest possible spontaneous understanding of the present moment.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: chattable on July 21, 2021, 09:59:18 pm
it was just my take on it.
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: HS on July 21, 2021, 11:04:32 pm
Yes, of course. I was not trying to say that your take was invalid. I was just offering my resulting perspective, in case you found a further discussion of this useful.   O0
Title: Re: Fictional Replicas: Value of Personality
Post by: MagnusWootton on July 22, 2021, 02:09:44 am
Knowledge is helpful but I think it gets in the way of understanding. We can take a concept from one situation and try to apply it to another one, but this is a shortcut, useful in certain situations, though never completely accurate. The more knowledge we have, the more we tend to perform this fast but false modeling. What I'm interested in is getting the AI to have the greatest possible spontaneous understanding of the present moment.

The AIXI system doesnt use its current knowledge to get more knowledge. (Not in the unoptimized/intractable form anyhow.)   It can just do a full recompute of the  "experience history" to obtain a new model,  not based apon what it currently knows.  As more frames enter the system, it should accomodate the new information without using anything it previously contrived from it.

But,     it could still be useful to do that,  if it ends up compressing the history chain,  so instead of storing the linear frames of its time since "switch on" It actually uses its last model to remember it, instead of storing the frames in an ordinary linear frame set. (like a movie.) 

Using a feedback type thing, it needent store the frames uncompressed, it stores them in an "equation transform model" type thing instead.