I couldn't find ANY philosophical discussion about a world without chaos

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yotamarker

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it started when I had seen this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSoZdQljIQg

and rationalized the type of free will shown there is trade based. and can be programmed or toggled.
making an AI do something or cause it to by means of trade.

then I researched some philosophical works about free will VS determinism, and theorized as long as a creature can experience chaos
or link to it, it is linked to free will and the past does not fully control it in the sense it has unpredictability.

which makes me wonder...

if there were a world without physical chaos, what would it look like ?

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infurl

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Re: I couldn't find ANY philosophical discussion about a world without chaos
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2021, 01:57:15 am »
if there were a world without physical chaos, what would it look like ?

Nothing would exist. From a physics perspective the universe is deterministic and there is no true free will, however that determinism takes place at the quantum level beyond our ability to perceive it so at least some of it appears to be chaos. That chaos is what drives everything and even apparently ordered rational behaviour emerges from it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpU_e3jh_FY

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MikeB

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Re: I couldn't find ANY philosophical discussion about a world without chaos
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2021, 09:30:16 am »
The Free Will shown in Rick & Morty above is the same as asking anyone "What do you really want to do right now?". If you're full of resentment & retaliation from being treated badly then you think about angry things.... If you just woke up and you're feeling then good, then you think about more social things.

The insect world, evolution, commerce is driven by competition, not chaos, as everyone is focused and skillful in what they're doing.

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yotamarker

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Re: I couldn't find ANY philosophical discussion about a world without chaos
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2021, 11:36:07 am »
perhaps they are saying being violent for fun is an expression of free will
or maybe free will is about trying out doing stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCH8bTRTqIw

like playing with toys

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MagnusWootton

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Re: I couldn't find ANY philosophical discussion about a world without chaos
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2021, 12:16:57 pm »
our free wills always oppose each others free wills,  that's the problem with it.

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WriterOfMinds

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Re: I couldn't find ANY philosophical discussion about a world without chaos
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2021, 03:57:56 pm »
I don't think of random or unpredictable behavior as "free will." In fact, I would say that randomness or pure chaos is the greatest possible absence of will. A deterministic system may not be "free," but at least it can be said to "make choices" (by means of if-then rules or whatever) and therefore have a kind of agency, which implies a will. To act at random is to abstain from making choices.

Individuals with free will can actually be quite predictable, if they freely will the same things on a consistent basis.

What I call "free will" requires decisions that are at least partly self-caused, and therefore would go beyond physical causality as we know it.

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Zero

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Re: I couldn't find ANY philosophical discussion about a world without chaos
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2021, 06:15:46 pm »
On the other hand, the only thing that's "beyond causality" is randomness, if there is such a thing.
We're not something that is changing. We are the change of something.

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HS

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Re: I couldn't find ANY philosophical discussion about a world without chaos
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2021, 08:21:58 pm »
I've looked around, and so far, Marvin's opinions on the topic seem the most reasonable to me. I don't agree with everything he is saying, but for the most part, I think he's got a view that reconciles the apparent paradox between reasoning and experience.

https://marvinedwards.me/category/determinism/

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MagnusWootton

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Re: I couldn't find ANY philosophical discussion about a world without chaos
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2021, 02:38:52 am »
AWESOME robohorse!!!

I bet you could away without a license on one of those things!!!

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ivan.moony

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There exist some rules interwoven within this world. As much as it is a blessing, so much it is a curse.

 


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