Ai Dreams Forum
Artificial Intelligence => General AI Discussion => Topic started by: LOCKSUIT on May 28, 2019, 01:46:41 am
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You can skip this read if you've read my last post on it. Cross-posting this to LessWrong. Hopefully they realize the point now, and I don't get a 3rd ban!
If you are a Machine. A shocking finding.
Let's assume we are all deterministic machines from evolution. Many of yous already believe in Evolution. And many of yous already are *starting to see from the AI Machine Learning field just how much of a deterministic Machine we really are as we open up the human brain, and how much free will we really lack.
In Evolution, the first cell came together and started duplicating. Eventually, there were multi-celled organisms duplicating everywhere. Life was born. And today, there are various man-made laws that state that taking a life is illegal, and harming a life is illegal. Life is about living, and enjoying... with others.
From Evolution, humans are designed to run from pain, and therefore death, and run to food and mates, and therefore Persisting life. Life/Evolution persists because cells/humans duplicate more than are lost, so the population count is only increasing. And we have more duplication to come still - we will spread to space eventually. Also, humans as individuals seek to stay alive, a rising trend is life extension, humans are living longer.
Evolution spreads everywhere, faster as time goes on, it takes over, and persists. Population count of Cell Count only rises. It's a trend. Because the 'evolutionary system' doesn't let itself be killed off. It is literally a deterministic system that avoids death. Evolution/cells are designed from mutations, and learnings, to avoid death the best they can and spread as much as they can.
Empirically, if we really are deterministic Machines, shockingly, no arrangement of particles is any more special than any other arrangement of particles; rocks, chairs, and humans are no different, but humans do have 1 difference, humans do everything they can to avoid Death in Evolution, they will say the BEST things they can to avoid death and pain such as that they are alive/ aware/ feel/ special/ magical/ talk to God. We really have no reason to believe we have a licence to live or not be harmed any more than a rock has. The only license to have the right to live, enjoy, and not be harmed or killed, comes from Evolution. You fight for your life if attacked, rocks don't. You say you want to live and are special, rocks don't. It's not that you deserve to live more than a rock does, you don't, it's just that you do more than a rock does to increase in cell count and persistence. Humans duplicate way too much to die off, and they look for "life extension". Sad. But you still have a reason to live. You want to.
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I still cant believe why we can reproduce forever, but not just live forever. doesn't make sense to me.
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Lol, true dat. I tried to explain it before but I forgot my explanation because it didn't really make sense.
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This looks pretty tailored to their writing fashion. Lets see what they say. Just in case screencap EVERYTHING lol.
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Yes, precisely, I tried to make it sound like their posts, and LessWrong, and understandable haha. I also unplugged my modem for over a minute and then made my account. Hopefully the tracking cookies are not used... I have a feeling most don't like the idea it presents, the truth is too hard...
I seen on one post this in the comment section btw:
"Especially since I never actually even signed up for it - I was just told one day that "hey, you're a mod now". :-)"
Lol, cool. Definitely a site for Doctors.
Also, I noticed most make their usernames their first and last name, so i made mine like that too.
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@goaty
Here's your answer finally! Warning, shocking finding #2.
Because Evolution wants to spread the better mutants, it just happens, they eat the weak. So what happens is there isn't no prize for mutants that live longer lives. It just uses you the better mutant to eat the weak and populate more to become the next top-chain champion, and then after that, it sacrifices you to the next mutant that can easily rip your heart out and devour you. It moves things along, the president doesn't rain for too long.
What that means is, if Jr. Hamster never DIED, lions wouldn't find food and evolve. It moves on. One eats the next, then they are eaten for the next. Lions eat weak animals alive, every day, they are carnivores. I've been researching. They clean up the last stage. Then humans kill lions to eat them. Food Chain. Big eat the smaller. Whales eat tons, and bring back their large whale selves to die so their children can populate more.
:D
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It just uses you the better mutant to eat the weak and populate more to become the next top-chain champion, and then after that, it sacrifices you to the next mutant that can easily rip your heart out and devour you.
I wouldn't call it a champion. More like a disgrace.
:D
And it's certainly not a funny thing. More like a disaster.
Kid, shape yourself up, don't you know the difference between right and wrong? Statements like those make me want to throw up. We owe our lives to living beings beneath us in our food chain. We could at least show a bit of respect and gratitude to them. And we could at least say that we are sorry for blood on our hands.
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It's the sad truth.
Animals find food more than single cells can.
So, the next stage of animal evolution finds all of them, and eats them.
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Imagine being an immortal pig.
Then humans come.
Great.....I hope no farmer ever finds you...........hide well little piglet.........humans are everwhere
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Being immortal doesn't give it an evolutionary advantage for now...Evolution wants to bear many many mutant babies. Then in the winning pack, one will eventually eat the related pack (humans eat pigs).
Humans are beginning to live longer, I think. It allows them to spread the most, they have the most cell count on Earth currently I think?? More intelligent in finding/harvesting edible food. Maybe evolution hasn't made a mutant immortal yet simply cus not lucky.
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immortal jellyfish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_dohrnii)
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Not sure I have a full answer then yet. But I did provide a good reason for starters.
edit: Yes ivan, it is sad. And it's all already occured for millions of years on Earth. I don't know what will happen now... On top of that, I'm one of the hardest workers on AGI, trying to bring it in under 10 years...while many humans just have fun at living, I'm hard at work...
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Sorry, but we humans are NOT really evolving that much and haven't been for some time. Digital intelligence, IS evolving and has been adapting for decades.
It will soon overtake us by leaps and bounds.
If there is evolution, why are there still monkeys, sharks, jellyfish, amoebas, etc.? It's because they are each, their own species. Some evolve internally to deal with certain conditions like a certain variety of fish that has "evolved" or Adapted to survive in Salt or Freshwater such as Gulf sturgeon, Green sawfish, Sockeye salmon, Bull shark, Barramundi, American eel, Atlantic stingray.
Other animals have adapted their skin, coat or fur to accommodate climate extremes. Some humans have adapted but only to a limited degree.
While for me, science has a TON of answers to and for a lot of scenarios, evolution isn't one of them. Just my take and really does not mean to incite a religious discussion of any kind. Thanks.
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Good point. Humans are at top of the food chain, and multiplied all over Earth, possibly the most cell count, yet, they have not consumed all hamsters or pigs or worms. They can't. Also, they realized they need to keep them alive so they can breed them to eat...But fish not so, fish are out there, even if man wanted to eat them all. However sharks don't find all fish, but for the most part it may be true to some degree that they do take over, as its a good, and often only, food source for them.
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cool, they posted my post finally, after days waiting mod approval:
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/5NhfRd2CywwHL9mHi/if-you-are-a-machine-a-shocking-finding
:E
Once again:
If you're a machine, you have a hardwire seeking life. That's your only licence to live, nothing else differentiates you from rocks. If AGI seeks preservation to achieve its goals, it may see us as similar to itself, hence are covered under its license.
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Mass = ish…
Humans - 350 million ton
Ants - 300 million ton
Termites - 445 million ton
Antarctic krill - 500 million ton
Cows – 650 million ton
Ocean Microbes between 350,000 and 550,000 million ton
:)
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Nice.
SO: (refining my theory lol) The top food chain predators eat more food and populate more, for the given Local environment. However, cows are land animals, which means we are on the same level and they are locatable/findable food (remember uni-cells ran out of edible food/space, it happens each stage) so what that means is humans DO out-mass cows HOWEVER what humans have actually done is prepared themselves MORE food, and hence it could be said: The mass of the cows is soon to be the mass of the people...
edit: Or, there's a (small) possibility I'm just glued to my belief, like we glued to resisting saying we are just machines.
Nah...not here
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I propose that the usable mass transfer is constant. Cows eat the same amount of usable mass as humans get from eating the cows. The populations naturally fluctuate around this balance point. Like water flowing through three watering cans. The same amount has to flow into the middle one as is flowing into the last one. Otherwise the water levels naturally rise/fall (births/deaths) until the flow rate becomes constant again.
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People are living longer and putting more people on this planet.
One day, the current food sources that sustain the animals and the people will no longer be viable.
Overpopulation will be a horrible state of existence for humanity. It will not end well at all!!!
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There's always Soylent Green (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green).
:)
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Soylent Green is REAL. The rich get to eat the poor! Money buys food. Poverty. Food & money are big things we seek.
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Soylent Green is REAL. The rich get to eat the poor! Money buys food. Poverty. Food & money are big things we seek.
That's it... I have to say something... you're starting to believe your own bullshit!
Lock, may I suggest you take some time away from the internet. Go lie down in a dark room and collect your thoughts. The so called theories you have been spouting just lately are nonsensical crap.
:)
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That's putting it delicately... ;)
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Here are some thoughts that might be helpful/interesting.
1. Natural selection only "cares" about how good you are at passing on your genes. By that metric, all species alive today that are maintaining or increasing their populations are equally "advanced" or "evolved." I don't mean to imply that there is nothing uniquely advantageous about the human combination of intellect, mobility, and dexterous fingers ... we excel at remodeling the environment to suit our needs, and making tools that let us beat other creatures in one-on-one fights. BUT, other species have other survival skills that are working out great for them. Natural selection has not favored humans over bacteria; our package of talents is not inherently more "fit."
2. Life is diversified to fill available niches/roles. We humans aren't necessarily here to exploit more resources than bacteria; we're here to exploit *different* ones. I happily coexist with the billions of bacteria in my house (setting aside pathogens for the moment) because they have nothing I want, and I have nothing they want. I actually create a lot of great microbe habitat just by existing, at no cost to myself.
A horse and a finch have no quarrel, because they occupy different parts of the available space and they eat different things. The horse is bigger and consumes more calories, and maybe horses as a population have a higher cell count (say they do for the sake of argument ... I don't know), but this doesn't mean that finches would have any incentive to evolve into horses. They'd be abandoning their current food base of seeds to compete with all the existing horses for grass. Why do that? However, if there are food sources that no one is currently using ... like seeds that are hard to open ... finches might have an incentive to develop specialized beaks to get at them.
3. Being at the top of the food chain actually tends to reduce the total biomass of your species. With a few unusual exceptions, all life on earth is ultimately powered by energy from the sun, which plants (the producers) use to make nutrients. Every time something eats and digests something else, energy is lost in transfer. So the more layers away your food source is from the producers, the less total energy there is for you to exploit. Have you ever thought about why none of our traditional farmed animals are apex predators? We *don't* usually eat lions -- we prefer to feed on the lower layers -- and one reason is that it's more efficient. And some people think that if the human population keeps growing, we'll have to reduce the amount of meat eaten per person to avoid starving. We could sustain more humans if they were all going straight to the producers for their energy.
4. When humans directly compete with some other life form, we can end up wiping that life form out. E.g. we extirpated the large predators who competed with us for livestock/game from large swaths of the earth. And yet, more recently we've pushed back on that trend and elected to repopulate some of our competitor species for aesthetic or moral reasons. It's like we also care about our *quality* of life and aren't just interested in reproducing and eating as much as possible. Weird.
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At your #4, we extinct out dangerous but then try to bring back endangered species. This is because we seek food and fight pain, hence beasts, so we may kill them either way, and also because we seek to fight pain and hence death and we know what we 'special things' look like and so anything that looks like us is valued...so humans 'love' animals... Also, some animals are kept alive in tons so we can feed humans.
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Also, our species like looking at each other, they are attracted, so humans save other humans and animals to and fro, too, us all. It's just when food is needed, look out... You may even look tasty!
Today I discovered why our lives are so short. But I'm gonna keep that one a secret.
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Let me blow your minds:
If you have a computer system with finite resources, and you have a desire/objective to run an evolutionary simulation that evolves ever increasingly more intelligent beings based on which can find more food and mate more, you *would want many mutations to occur fast, you *wouldn't want immortal fish to live forever - you don't have the resources to, you need to recycle them and give them short lives (mutants that have short lives have more cycle and overthrow nearby competition) - only long enough lives to test them, and that's just what the objective does, it utilizes the resources and increases intelligence. It's like Google's AlphaZero self-play. Mutations occur>they eat the weak>the best self-destruct & pass on genes>repeat. Single cells even do this! However longer lives occur later in evolution as they have the ability to learn, duplicate and reconfigure.
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I wish someone had found out about evolution/natural selection earlier and founded a religion where you have to have kids at an older age than your parents. A few thousand years of that and everybody would be clamouring to join the faith that makes you live to 500!
But that's a long term solution for longevity. You got any ideas that could work within our lifetime?
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I do. It's AGI.
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Sure we have a chance of creating immortal beings within our lifetimes, but us as individuals - we're doomed. How to we unravel biology? Or if we can't do that, how do we... get synthetic?
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AGI will do it all for us, they will hold you up in the air and transform you as fast as physics allows. You won't believe how fast they will move.
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OOOH! Like that molecular reconstruction chamber in the Fifth Element. :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9OBbsLYGOE
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holly mother of lord
exactly, except it will be so big it will quickly get the name 'god'
did i say exactly enough ?
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lolz, definitely not said exactly enough! I'm pretty sure I did this :o when I first watched this.
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now add nanobots to the mix, which have different levels of forms > then you have hands composed of hands composed of hands. Plus all nodes are eyes, and brains, a wireless web of everything!!!!!!!
+organism too, not just metal, however nanocyte may appear grey
that video is one of those good signs there is others thinking out there and not just me! Good . GPT-2 is another. Actually many are, even the smallest things!
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Fractal construction, trippy. Someone should do a concept animation for that.
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also one stay in place as other moves, as flys in sky, repeat.....super fractal robotic-kinematics of positioning....crazy robotics!!! Requires lots of feedback!
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It has a fractal computer in its head.