Ai Dreams Forum

Artificial Intelligence => General AI Discussion => Topic started by: AndyGoode on August 16, 2019, 04:10:00 am

Title: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: AndyGoode on August 16, 2019, 04:10:00 am
https://www.physics-astronomy.org/2019/08/quantum-teleportation-has-been-reported.html

The semi-relevance of this to AI is that quantum computers are promising to be so extremely fast that some people believe quantum computers hold the key to AI, and this new discovery that a qutrit (which holds 3 quantum states) can be quantum teleported just as well as a qubit (which holds only 2 quantum states) suggests that more information can now be quantum teleported in a single stroke, although admittedly the only practical application mentioned was creation of an unhackable communication channel.

For those unfamiliar with "quantum teleportation," the main thing you need to know is that that the term is very misleading in that physical teleportation (like you see in "Star Trek") has nothing to do with quantum teleportation; quantum teleportation cannot be used in any way (that I can imagine) for practical physical teleportation. Below is a video on that topic. However, it is still a truly amazing phenomenon in nature.

(*)
How Quantum Teleportation Works (Or Doesn't)
The Good Stuff
Published on Aug 4, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoi6ffryj88


Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: LOCKSUIT on August 16, 2019, 05:45:47 am
Anyone think this can be used to avoid being hit by lightspeed gamma ray radiation in a space utopia? Put out quantum devices around your utopia, and if one gets hit, change the one back at home and say MOVE UP. We miss the beam. Day saved.
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: goaty on August 16, 2019, 06:41:33 am
Excuse me if I sound arrogant...   but why don't they get their qubit working first instead having a qutrit as well,  now they are just snowed under with more work.
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: LOCKSUIT on August 16, 2019, 11:39:46 am
@goaty

Once you take up a new field, you may discover a new way to do both problems. Maybe 3 can fit and 2 can't.

:)
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: goaty on August 16, 2019, 12:01:10 pm
? isn't a qbit already a qtrit anyway?
QBIT
1  =  0
2  = 1
3  = both

So a qtrit is like *6* states->

1  = 0
2  = 1
3  = 2
4  = 0 +1
5  = 0 + 2
6 =  1 + 2

Maybe having the extra value really makes a difference.  More like it absolutely confuses the crap out of you because things aren't powers of 2 anymore.

Just means every 2 bits, you get to collect two shaves,  but its *QUANTUM* so who knows what the hell it actually does!!
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: AndyGoode on August 17, 2019, 12:47:25 am
? isn't a qbit already a qtrit anyway?
QBIT
1  =  0
2  = 1
3  = both

Eh, that's an ugly and inaccurate way to think about qubits because at all times there exists a probability for each of the qubit's states 0 or 1, so at all times there is already the following expression for the overall ("system") state that already takes any possible mixture into consideration:

alpha * |0> +
beta * |1>

alpha = the probability of that qubit being in state 0
beta = the probability of that qubit being in state 1
Both alpha and beta are numbers anywhere between or including 0 and 1, though I believe constrained in certain mathematical ways. I don't believe alpha and beta can both equal 1 at the same time, for example, but I don't understand the details thoroughly enough to know for sure. (See the topic of Bloch spheres, for example, then please explain it to us all in a simple way!)

At any rate, what you were calling state 3 is what's called a "mixed state" or "superposition" and was already described by the math expression I showed above, so there is no need to list such a state 3.

So a qtrit is like *6* states->

No, just 3 states, due to what I explained above, although with an infinite number of possible mixed states due to all the choices for alpha and beta.

1 qubit has 2^1 = 2 possible states: 0, 1
1 qutrit has 3^1 = 3 possible states: 0, 1, 2

In general, with N digits you get:

N qubits have 2^N possible states
N qutrits have 3^N possible states

It's with multiple digits that quantum computers really start to excel over classical computers, since then the representational power goes up exponentially. One digit is fairly useless, even if it's a qubit or qutrit, but even with two qubits you can start to do some things you couldn't do before on a classical computer that had two classical bits (https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/63412/how-are-qubits-better-than-classical-bit-if-they-collapse-to-a-classical-state-a). Since we're dealing with exponential increase in the above expressions, a small change in base (like from 2^N to 3^N) can quickly make a huge difference. You can plot several points on a graph of each of those two functions to prove that to yourself.

()
https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/quantum-computing-for-the-qubit-curious

()
How Does a Quantum Computer Work?
Veritasium
Published on Jun 17, 2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_IaVepNDT4

There exist advantages of using higher bases even in classical computers. For example, a ternary computer (base 3) is easier to build and needs fewer digits to represent numbers than does a binary computer (base 2):

https://hackaday.com/2016/12/16/building-the-first-ternary-microprocessor/
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: AndyGoode on August 17, 2019, 01:23:23 am
Anyone think this can be used to avoid being hit by lightspeed gamma ray radiation in a space utopia? Put out quantum devices around your utopia, and if one gets hit, change the one back at home and say MOVE UP. We miss the beam. Day saved.

I don't believe that can work because: (1) You won't know which states those quantum detectors have, so you can't program conditions to check, or even program an action to happen if a change of state occurs; (2) It's impossible to transmit information faster than light, just as it's impossible to transfer mass faster than light--that's the real drawback of using quantum teleportation to try to create physical teleportation. (I'm ignoring wormholes and other extremely exotic possibilities, some possibilities that some insiders claim already are being used in secret.)

()
How to Teleport Schrödinger's Cat
minutephysics
Published on Mar 15, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxQK1WDYI_k

Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: goaty on August 17, 2019, 09:45:08 am
How is a qbit having a probability of being a 1 or 0 supposed to help,  I think it helps more by just being both.
What could you possibly get out of it?
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: AndyGoode on August 17, 2019, 06:23:12 pm
How is a qbit having a probability of being a 1 or 0 supposed to help,  I think it helps more by just being both.
What could you possibly get out of it?

You're right, that's what superposition is: the ability to be in both states at the same time. Without superposition, quantum computers would be pointless and would just be the same as classical computers. Those probabilities alpha and beta just describe how much of each state is present simultaneously during the period of superposition. It is superposition that allows quantum computers to do parallel processing. Quantum computers are basically just parallel processing computers, except that instead of having multiple man-made processors they use the natural phenomenon of superposition via ultra simple qubits, which saves on a lot hardware: no need to manufacture copies of the same intricate piece of a CPU when a simple niobium loop can do the same thing as an entire processor.

That also explains part of why I personally don't believe quantum computers are going to produce AGI, at least not in the way we think of AGI: at best quantum computers are just parallel processing computers, which we've had for decades and can only speed up the algorithms we program, not produce anything fundamentally new. At best I believe quantum computers could make impressive inroads on computationally intensive tasks, like in pattern recognition, associative memory, and search speed, which are related to intelligence but are not the essence of intelligence itself.

(http://slideplayer.com/slide/1592829/5/images/15/Parallel+Processing+Control+CPU+Combined+Results.jpg)
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: goaty on August 17, 2019, 07:42:00 pm
Quantum computers solve intractable problems, via an exponential amount of parallel power.  They aren't just parallel,  they are uber parallel.   If you took a gpu we have nowadays, got the log of its bus, it would be about ~85 qbits worth.   Quantum could increase this to over 4000.   That's why I know no-ones got one, and anyone that says they do is a lier,  because the world we live in would be fundamentally different, in the form of mans self empowerment. (as apposed to nature, which was always there.)

Also,  I don't think RSA encryption would exist anymore either - but it still seems to be there.

So...   these "physical phenomena" don't seem to be there to even take advantage of, or they would have already - unless...  something funny Is going on.
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: LOCKSUIT on August 18, 2019, 04:07:31 am
All the myspace profiles will be hackable :P
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: goaty on August 19, 2019, 09:01:23 am
Let me add one thing.

A nanobot normally doesn't have much computation power,  and it would only do 1 routiene task per bot.  I don't know why they don't make them already,  probably cause minute machines are horribly dangerous to proliferate in society...  but its just essentially a tiny simple (albiet with sensors) automaton.

If you had a quantum nanobot,  its more powerful than any virus in nature,  and it would be a 1 stop shop to be all viruses.  It means that its a lot harder to stop, if someone made it, because it is more agile/skillful to get around attempts to stop it.

Im starting to doubt my existance,   its just so easy to kill anyone,  you don't need a virus,  all you need is to get run over by a car and your dead anyway.

Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: LOCKSUIT on August 19, 2019, 09:16:37 am
Same here - life even comes into existence on random too. "oops" they said. Our lives are rubbish, chances. Probablistics.
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: HS on August 19, 2019, 09:35:59 am
I bet there is already a quantum aspect to biology. Why not? The universe doesn't have to follow the human progression of knowledge, it just uses everything at its disposal, all the time.
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: goaty on August 19, 2019, 11:23:51 am
I bet there is already a quantum aspect to biology. Why not? The universe doesn't have to follow the human progression of knowledge, it just uses everything at its disposal, all the time.

A lot of people would say the brain is an intractable thing to compute,   and quantum is for intractable things.   We are actually more powerful than a quantum computer in the way that even if you had one,  youd be stuck with something artificial,  not us,  anyway.

But theres the opinion that intelligence doesn't require wasteful amounts of resources that u get with quantum if you do it a better way to begin with.
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: AndyGoode on August 20, 2019, 01:52:45 am
I bet there is already a quantum aspect to biology. Why not?

Roger Penrose was a famous proponent of his hypothesis that the human brain uses quantum mechanics to do the amazing things it does. His conjectures have been proven wrong so far, and I expect they always will. As brilliant as the guy is, his hypotheses sound ridiculous to me.

(p. 400)
   There is, in fact, at least one clear place where action at the single quantum
level can have importance for neural activity, and this is in the retina.
(Recall
that the retina is technically part of the brain!) Experiments with toads have
shown that under suitable conditions, a single photon impinging on the
dark-adapted retina can be sufficient to trigger a macroscopic nerve signal
(Baylor, Lamb, and Yau 1979). The same appears to be true of man (Hecht,
Shlaer, and Pirenne 1941), but in this case there is an additional mechanism
present which suppresses such weak signals, so that they do not confuse the
perceived picture with too much visual 'noise'. A combined signal of about
seven photons is needed in order that a dark-adapted human subject can
actually become aware of their arrival. Nevertheless, cells with a single-photon
sensitivity do appear to be present in the human retina.

(p. 447)
Conclusion: a child's view

In this book I have presented many arguments intending to show the
untenability of the viewpoint--apparently rather prevalent in current philo-
sopohizing--that our thinking is basically the same as the action of some very
complicated computer. When the explicit assumption is made that the mere
enaction of an algorithm can evoke conscious awareness, Searle's terminology
'strong AI' has been adopted here. Other terms such as 'functionalism' are
sometimes used in a somewhat less specific way.
   Some readers may, from the start, have regarded the 'strong-AI supporter'
as perhaps largely a straw man! Is it not 'obvious' that mere computation
cannot evoke pleasure or pain; that it cannot perceive poetry or the beauty of
an evening sky or the magic of sounds; that it cannot hope or love or despair;
that it cannot have a genuine autonomous purpose? Yet science seems to
have driven us to accept that we are all merely small parts of a world governed
in full detail (even if perhaps ultimately just probabilistically) by very precise
mathematical laws. Our brains themselves, which seem to control all our
actions, are also ruled by these same precise laws. The picture has emerged
that all this precise physical activity is, in effect, nothing more than the acting
out of some vast (perhaps probabilistic) computation--and, hence our brains
and our minds are to be understood solely in terms of such computations.
Perhaps when computations become extraordinarily complicated they can
begin to take on the more poetic or subjective qualities that we associate with
the term 'mind'. Yet is is hard to avoid an uncomfortable feeling that there
must always be something missing from such a picture.
   In my own arguments I have tried to support this view that there must
indeed be something essential that is missing from any purely computational
picture. Yet I hold also to the hope that it is through science and mathematics
that some profound advances in the understanding of mind must eventually
come to light. There is an apparent dilemma here, but I have tried to show
that there is a genuine way out. Computability is not at all the same thing as
being mathematically precise. There is as much mystery and beauty as one
might wish in the precise Platonic mathematical world, and most of this
mystery resides with concepts that lie outside the comparatively limited part
of it where algorithms and computation reside.

Penrose, Roger. 1989. The Emperor's New Mind: Concerning Computers, Mind, and The Laws of Physics. New York: Oxford University Press.
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: goaty on August 20, 2019, 06:03:35 am
Yes quantum is to be ridiculed.
Uncertainty, is definitely there to be a problem in measuring such small quantities of things,  but its not because the atoms are in two places at once.
If something isn't there after you measured it,  perhaps it was disturbed in a much more ordinary sense, than it representing more than one amplitude each measurement.
Even a capacitor, will change value if you put charge into it, to test its current polarity.
Entanglement (why entanglement, is it a scientists brain dead sexual fantasy??) seems to indicate to me, that light photons themselves form some form of memory where it was last refracted and reflected in two at the side of a crystal, that doesn't seem to be probable.
The famous double slit experiment, is computed probablisticly even tho its the same determined response!! also making sure given the slit was smaller than the wave length of light - so you have to make a very sharp slit if you plan on doing it, and its easily explained by phase inversion why you get positive and negative wave pattern, which again, i say doesn't seem to be probabilistic, its determined anyway.
Quantum computers use probabilistic mathematics, seemingly based apon the fact that such low amplitudes are noisy to measure from but you seem to be able to involve it in your mathematics as a part of your controlled output.

If Quantum entanglement was a true phenomenon, its not even a complex situation that wouldn't have been mastered already if it were true that it worked.

but that isn't actually a reason why it wouldn't be true I guess....

If you want to be ridiculed, I guess it could actually be true still...
It would actually mean the quite pleasant result of the universe containing more data context than its entire store of atoms by an exponent (which could be infinite anyway I guess.) which I like the idea of,  and I guess it may be true...   and if it is, watch out if anyone manages to harness the infinite memory you can get out of just a tiny miniscule amount of atoms just like the atomic bomb!   Let alone making a big one, out of a google of atoms.

But note, when I say something positive about it like that,   even if its true, everything on the internet is at least a half lie, and taught all backwards and completely wrong in general.  If your going to work it out,  I think you are on your own.   No decent help anywhere.  What if entanglement isn't about getting an exponent but its how you read out of quack memory or something, I dunno.  but its not what it seems.
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: AndyGoode on August 21, 2019, 02:05:36 am
I bet there is already a quantum aspect to biology.

Look what I just came across today by accident. It looks like you're likely to win your bet, though according to that video it is not yet known for sure.

()
How Quantum Biology Might Explain Life’s Biggest Questions | Jim Al-Khalili | TED Talks
TED
Published on Sep 16, 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qgSz1UmcBM
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: HS on August 21, 2019, 04:08:37 am
 :D
If we discover methods of interacting with them, these delicate states seem like they will be useful for allowing greater delicacy and finesse in the operations of future AI's and robots. We'll be able to fix a whole bunch of new stuff with tiny little instruments!
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: goaty on August 21, 2019, 04:18:26 pm
Ive got a problem with dna being the size of atoms, and they know what it looks like.  I thought we couldn't see atoms?
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: ivan.moony on August 21, 2019, 04:24:29 pm
Ive got a problem with dna being the size of atoms, and they know what it looks like.  I thought we couldn't see atoms?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystallography (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystallography)
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: goaty on August 21, 2019, 07:11:58 pm
Ah rubbish,  you cant look into a microscope and see the balls!!  what a load.
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: ivan.moony on August 21, 2019, 07:36:13 pm
Scientists analyzed structures of proteins got by crystallography and concluded that the Universe optimizes protein structures by solving "traveling salesman problem" in a very fast way. I believe them.

Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_microscope (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_microscope) - it maginifies about 1 × 107 times. Let's do some math... The diameter of an atom ranges from about 0.1 to 0.5 nanometers (1 × 10−10 m to 5 × 10−10 m). It means that an image of an atom stretches in a range from about 1 × 10-3 m to 5 × 10-3 m. That's about 1 to 5 millimeters per atom, if I'm not mistaken. Though, I don't know about magnetic interactions between electrons sent from the microscope and observed atoms, assuming the distance between atoms is 1 × 10 -10 m...

[Edit]
Looked up that wiki, it says it's ok:

Quote
The resolution of TEMs is limited primarily by spherical aberration, but a new generation of hardware correctors can reduce spherical aberration to increase the resolution in high-resolution transmission electron microscopy (HRTEM) to below 0.5 angstrom (50 picometres), enabling magnifications above 50 million times. The ability of HRTEM to determine the positions of atoms within materials is useful for nano-technologies research and development.
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: goaty on August 21, 2019, 09:20:49 pm
Im seeing the balls!!!   :D


!!

Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: HS on August 21, 2019, 10:01:26 pm
 Looking at the video below... Wow I can't imagine the necessary image stabilization/slowmo and resulting light requirements.
Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: AndyGoode on August 22, 2019, 12:24:40 am
I thought we couldn't see atoms?

()
Have you ever seen an atom?
nature video
Published on Mar 27, 2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqLlgIaz1L0
()
Gold atoms being pulled apart
ScienceVideos
Published on Feb 15, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGWSX6pStd0

Title: Re: News: the first quantum teleportation of a qutrit
Post by: goaty on August 23, 2019, 05:19:59 am
Looks fake to me.  Your lucky you guys have me around before you all go jump on the bandwagon.   :2funny:

!!