[ivan.moony]

 

[Ultron]

If everyone would just take a moment to make at least one person happy, we would all be happy...

Now, as I was reading down i actually forgot the topic and what I originally wanted to say. But whatever

So, the talk goes on to point out the dangers of an AI we will eventually make that has the ability to learn, much like ourselves?
Well, for the fearfull ones - we barely understand ourselves... We are THAT dumb. To make a lecture on something you must first be well informed of the subject (in this case, complete understanding of the way we learn and become smarter).

So tell me, how exactly does your mind function? How do you reach conclusions on every day matters, even the smallest of things?

If you can answer this, I hereby pronounce you the next phase of human evolution...

[ranch vermin]

If you want ai to happen Ivan, you have to do it yourself.

Making a program generate off a sensor isnt easy to do,  you have to make due with dumb correlation over the real cause, which is invisible, and is guessed by animal intelligence.   If you planned on a half manual job,  logic programming is only as good as you are at going low level with things,  look at how simple NLP's are,  thats the manual attempt, and its rare to see an NLP make a truly decent functionalization of english rules.

Understanding english is more of a statistical decyphering, rather than treating it like a programming language of operations, (which is actually what to do, its just impossible.)    Ill keep going with my projects, I hope to have something cool this year,  I want to automate video games off an ordinary camera. (maybe a kinect might help me out... but I dont want to rely on it, because it doesnt solve all the problems, and wont make it as big a win as it could have been.)

About the vegetarianism,  I feel the pain also,  I feel like im in a vaccum prison of pain, stuck in my head, losing all my thinking tentacles to agonists and antagonists, in a world that doesnt care, myself included.

[ivan.moony]

Well, well, now, let's leave this my vegetarian nonsense to the next generations. I'm aware that the meat is healthy and probably it is the only way we can live healthy. I've learned something in my life: people in problems do not see other people problems. My task is to make everyone happy, so they can turn to the outer side, to unhappy beings. This is not going to happen in my life time, but I can live with that. I live for the future generations, trying to pass them a fragment of an AGI. I appreciate judgements of some of you, but let's get down to business, this thread is about something else, about concrete AGI algorithm that duplicates behavior of a being it interfaces with.

@Ultron7
Hi there... Well, I can just have a theory about ourselves which would probably be a far away from truth.

The theory goes: we learn small fragments of experiences (like a tape loop, or a byte array, if you want) which we can reproduce in reality. Later, we can in our minds combine those fragments in various ways, predicting various outcomes for various combinations. If some outcome satisfies us, we can realize the combination in reality, hoping for a positive result. Not much, but this is the best I have in this moment.

But what outcome we really want and how we decide which outcome we want? This I guess an AI can learn that from experience. It fires up a fragment of seen behavior into terminal and waits for a response. And that response should be exactly what we would want from an AI when we would pass the same behavior into terminal. This is a main thought for this thread, copying behavior from terminal, from beings it interfaces.

If this kind of AI would be raised by exactly one person, you could say that after some initial interaction that AI would behave exactly as the person which spent her/his time on training it. But I'm a lot afraid of this behavior, just think of a single terrorist raising up this AI? On the other side, once this kind of AI starts interacting other beings, it would adopt their behavior, providing itself with a base for decision what behavior pattern it would exhibit. Here I have some hopes with implementing Sky behavior (posted on this site on some other thread).

[Ultron]

You know what?  You are on the right track. You are where I was about a year ago. Fragments...  This idea came to me ages ago. And eventually came to the conclusion I advertise today - patterns. Everything is based on patterns (replication,  combination and finally  generation).

You can see how the word 'patterns'  fits in your theory,  too.

The way I came to this conclusion is actually be thinking,  about how I think. This can truly be the key to the future of A. I. and it is in fact what I am attempting to achieve (prove)  with Jarvis.

I believe we can schedule a chat with whoever be interested in this idea, and more efficiently exchange ideas

Now that I know where you are trying to go with your project I would like to give you some input and ideas regarding this.
Do you have knowledge of how to work with databases?

Edit: I forgot to mention that this goes beyond software and conventional hardware. What you are attempting to create is indeed,  a new life form.
Now to burst your bubble - prepare to make budget cuts if you intend to seriously pursue this (which I strongly believe you should).

[ivan.moony]

Yes, I have some experience with databases.

A new life form? I consider a life form as a conscious or unconscious being who can feel joy or pain.

[Art]

Normally, an unconscious being does not feel pain, in the ordinary sense of denoting pain.

I've been unconscious and had my chest bone broken in half, yet I felt nothing.

[Ultron]

For the record, I disagree with the current description of what is alive and what is not.

Also I would personally consider anything self-aware as 'alive', even if it is a toaster or a pen spring.

But this goes beyond topic... So, why I said life form was because if such a program grows into a proper intelligence (AGI, AI whatever) and if we give it a mechanical body, it would only differ from the rest of the organisms on our planet by being inorganic.
I recommend the before-last episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation, Season 7. It is a very interesting one which ignites a rather controversial discussion of whether or not a spaceship can develop into an intelligent life form.

P.S. I was rather serious about that chat group... I also suggest this medium - https://groupme.com/
I have a large drive when it comes to good ideas and projects. I actually want everything done ASAP.

[ivan.moony]

@Ultron7

Chat group? I'm interested, maybe we can exchange some ideas... But i'm having Linux here, so I'm a bit limited as for new apps to install. I'm in Croatia time zone at gmail address ivan.moony@gmail.com, so you can get me there. Gmail chat has also group chat option, so if you get us your email and time to reach you, you can invite us in the same chat-thread. Or maybe Skype, but I understand only written english, not spoken, so we would have to write down our conversations.

[Freddy]

A while back I designed a chat room plugin for this SMF forum software that we use. If there is interest I could install it here. You would just click to the chat page and usernames etc are linked to the forum.

[DemonRaven]

Don't even get into the definition of what life is. They are still arguing over whether or a virus could be considered a life form and if it then why can't a computer virus be one. Virus can't reproduce on their own they use the host to do it for them.

[Ultron]

Good point DemonRaven. I get the feeling we will define a proper definition before biologists do


Anyway I believe this will suffice as a chat page for now https://app.groupme.com/join_group/8427243/CfqpAE
I like GroupMe because it is clean, simple and functional - you can share anything with the group.


Edit: My apologies if it feels like I am advertising this chat service (honestly I wish I would get paid for that).

[ivan.moony]

@ranch vermn
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be so rood. You know, we are not alone in our compassion to imprisoned animals. Look at the raising number of vegetarians in the world... And look at a popular artist Moby, whose artwork I use for my avatar here... He is a vegan too and some of his sad songs on albums "Play", "Wait for me" and "Innocents" talk about exactly the same pain we are living through. is his video that proves that we are not alone in this suffer.

But even vegetables (if the theory about evolution is true) could some day have ancestors that could be friends to our distant kids. And even if the food problem would be solved by artificial makeouts, there would be the problem of stepping onto bugs, killing or crippling them for the rest of their life. And after all, who gives us the right to exterminate viruses because we don't like them? It is so frustrating for me, but I learned to believe in some higher force, namely Mother Earth that takes care of it all. It is just a lifetime for earthlings and God knows what is before and after. Anyway, I believe that the life is bearable, but what's around it in a sense of time is solved in Mother Earth's eyes, so I have hopes that everything is all right after a while.

But I also believe that we shouldn't give up on our tries to make the world the better place to live for everyone alive. See the attachment poem I wrote about this situation... Solution sounds super sick ambitious, but I just don't know what else to do and I have to give it a try in the name of all tears I cried out for tortured and murdered beings in the world on behalf of our survival. Sick ambitious, but i am that much desperate.

[Freddy]

Whilst I have empathy there's a few odd things that cloud your issue. This is not to derail your train of thought, merely some fuel for the fire.

Viruses - we kill them because they make us ill or kill us. There's no way to reason with them. It's a simple case of us or them, maybe even one of the simplest relationships we actually have with other life forms. Anyway.

Insects; Isn't it Buddhism that teaches not to kill insects ? I always like that due to the sheer amount of effort needed to live that way. Even so I would kill a gnat that was out to bite me with Malaria for example. But I live with most insects, not literally, I mean my house has spiders but I leave them as they cause me no trouble. There's a few silver fish too, which I think are cool little creatures. I saved a spider from the bath the other day too. OK I could be sensitive or crazy, take your choice

Killing other animals. Not needlessly for sure. For food, not so much a problem for my part; but I expect them to be shown a good quality of life. Killing Tigers for their testicles so you can have relations with your wife is right out.

But the main thing I wanted to say was, what about the other animals ? Would you stop them killing each other too. Because let's face it, the animal kingdom is in full out war twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. A lot of monkeys are omnivorous, many eat other small mammals. Should they be stopped ? Anteaters, Tigers, Lions, Cheaters, Sharks and and the spiders.... My point is if it's in ones nature shouldn't we just accept it and get on with things ?

Like I said, just food for thought.

I liked your poem

[Data]

Some animals eat meat to survive because they have to, when I walk into a supermarket I have a simple choice to make.

Do I want to support slaughter houses of death or not.

Considered posting a slaughter house video but it's so very sad that I couldn't.

We have choice, this was not always the case but as we humans are evolving...

Haven't eaten meat or fish for 20 years, still alive and well