The path visual input takes.

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Korrelan

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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2016, 10:04:31 pm »
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I am currently showing factual parts of the brain if you look them up. Their order and so on.

I am explaining the real brain.
Ok! Thanks for you answer.

 :)
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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2016, 10:19:01 pm »
Just in case Freddy didn't see my reply today, check the bottom of the last page about Ivan.

Does anybody confirm yet that the shown outline of the sections a sensory input takes is so? Do you understand the whole outline? All parts plus order is known on the internet. This should be a breeze.

http://advancessss.deviantart.com/art/Revealing-Brain-632107460?ga_submit_new=10%253A1472844084
« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 03:14:32 am by LOCKSUIT »
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Freddy

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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2016, 03:28:51 am »
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Just in case Freddy didn't see my reply today, check the bottom of the last page about Ivan.

My apologies then, I read that the wrong way. Sorry  ::)

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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2016, 03:46:42 am »
Just another helpful note for our picture if you need it:

Input > Primary > Association > HOAC > Association > Primary > Output.

And wiki/etc also says:
Dorsal Stream leads to Actions.
All Sensory/Motor goes to HOAC.
Motor P&A Cortices work in reverse.

Awaiting confirmation:
http://advancessss.deviantart.com/art/Revealing-Brain-632107460?ga_submit_new=10%253A1472844084

Any moment kei is going to go all gameboy on this right right lol? No? JJ.
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Korrelan

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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2016, 06:46:09 pm »
It's awfully quiet around here,,,

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Awaiting confirmation:

Yeah! OK…. 'confirmation' given... I'm all ears & eyes; my mind is open... explain how the human ocular system works... and the next step.

I'm always willing to learn new concepts and ideas.

Edit: My theory is not necessarily the right way, or the only way!

 :)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 08:13:14 pm by korrelan »
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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2016, 10:26:03 pm »
But wait, do you really confirm that all the picture's parts AND order are ALL correct? Or in other words the whole picture is perfectly true 100% all documented online? If not, then start coughing up the hiccups and we'll discus them.

http://advancessss.deviantart.com/art/Revealing-Brain-632107460?ga_submit_new=10%253A1472844084

This is necessary, believe me.
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Korrelan

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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2016, 01:54:19 am »
Obviously the picture is not compatible with what we generally recognise as the human model. Also the path you describe for the ocular nerve is incorrect.

I am very interested to hear your theory of how human vision functions though.

 :)
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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2016, 03:39:37 am »
The only part I left out as being True is the optic nerves that cross each-other as a X yes, ok?

Everything else is correct except for their exact locations (no matter, they are connected), I will explain below see. I await your confirmation that *all of the rest is true:
1) Visual input goes to the Primary Cortex 1st, see it in our picture? 100% correct.
2) Then it goes to the Association Cortex, same again.
3) Then wiki says the Dorsal Stream for vision and other senses leads to actions BY going to HOAC, below I show you how this "leads to actions".
4) The reverse order of Primary and Association for all motor cortices lead to HOAC too, so see why the visual input (like all sensory cortices) leads to the actions by Dorsal Stream to the HOAC? That's why.
5) Actions output, not necessarily out of the primary cortex, rather I say the HOAC after they are selected (through HOAC [when sesnes are slected]), since Motor Primary&Association are for INPUT (generating&tweaking selected actions).

Awaiting confirmation:
http://advancessss.deviantart.com/art/Revealing-Brain-632107460?ga_submit_new=10%253A1472844084



Btw we have motor control not just over our eyes but also the area of the image we will have as input to see, and is likely why the optic nerve is cut back to like 1 10th the actual size, else it's by all pixels sent back - no symbology (which 10 symbolic pixels CANNOT send 20 pixels, you must send 20 pixels for 20 pixels = 0 symbology).
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Korrelan

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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2016, 08:37:51 am »
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Everything else is correct except for their exact locations (no matter, they are connected), I will explain below see.

Just saying something is true doesn’t make it so.

We all have theories on the internal workings of the human brain. No one knows (or can prove) that they have all the answers.  The best we have is scientific peer reproduced experimental results.

You came to this forum insisting that you had all the answers, yet have changed your theory several times as you learn new information.  Whilst the learning is good; it should prove to you that you don’t have all the answers.

You are not describing how the actual human system works; you are giving a very brief outline of how you think ocular data flows through the human system.

 Before we continue can you at least admit that?

:)
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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2016, 08:58:47 am »
"You are not describing how the actual human system works; you are giving a very brief outline of how you think ocular data flows through the human system.

Before we continue can you at least admit that?"

Our outline picture I drew, currently only has a few parts added, as we are only beginning, and all of these parts and their order shown on the in-side of the brain is well documented. Please confirm this on everyone's behalf. It is a simple image, showing factually named parts and their order in-side of the brain. All of the part names and their connected order on the in-side of the brain came from wikipedia and elsewhere and are well documented. If you cannot confirm, please refer to one of the parts, or their connected order, on the in-side of the brain.

http://advancessss.deviantart.com/art/Revealing-Brain-632107460?ga_submit_new=10%253A1472844084
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 12:16:08 am by LOCKSUIT »
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Korrelan

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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2016, 09:29:46 am »
You avoided my question and I still need an answer.

Quote
It is a simple image, showing factually named parts and their order in-side of the brain. All of the part names and their connected order on the in-side of the brain came from wikipedia and elsewhere and are well documented.

You are stating that your diagram is 100% correct.

Could you provide some links showing/ explaining that the locations and descriptions you have given are correct and that ocular data does take that route?

Ie: Why have you placed the ‘primary motor cortex’ where the prefrontal cortex should be?

 :)
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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2016, 12:40:11 am »
The optic nerve and motor output that are shown out-side of the brain in our picture is not correctly shown.



Here is full documentation that all of the parts on the in-side of the brain in our picture and all of their connected order but not exact exact location is 100% correct:

Primary Cortex is each sensory input's first major stop:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_system#Visual_cortex

Then they go to the Association Cortex:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_system#Visual_association_cortex

Then all sensory and motor go to the same place being the HOAC:
http://neuroscience.uth.tmc.edu/s4/chapter09.html

The Dorsal Stream takes them their, wiki says the Dorsal Stream leads to actions after you see a cue (foundation of machine learning):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_system#Visual_association_cortex

Then the Motors's OWN Primary and Association Cortices work backwards on the left (frontal lobe) of the brain and do actions on external cues (tested actions are linked to ex. rewarded senses>training):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex
&
http://neuroscience.uth.tmc.edu/s4/chapter09.html



Awaiting confirmation:
http://advancessss.deviantart.com/art/Revealing-Brain-632107460?ga_submit_new=10%253A1472844084
Emergent          https://openai.com/blog/

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Korrelan

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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2016, 09:14:16 pm »
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Primary Cortex is each sensory input's first major stop:

The lateral Geniculate Nucleus (LGN) is the first major stop for ocular data, after being pre-processed by the retina.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalamus

Quote from link: For the visual system, for example, inputs from the retina are sent to thelateral geniculate nucleus of the thalamus, which in turn projects to the visual cortex in the occipital lobe.

Quote
Then they go to the Association Cortex:

After leaving the LGN the ocular data stream does move to the V1 cortex, but then splits to many other cortex areas, ‘some’ axons terminate in the area collectively known as the visual associative area. (V2,V3 & V4, etc)

Quote from link: “However, there is still much debate about the degree of specialization within these two pathways, since they are in fact heavily interconnected.”

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Then all sensory and motor go to the same place being the HOAC:

Higher-order integrative cortical areas are thought to exist all over the cortex, combining/ integrating many different neural data streams.

Quote
The Dorsal Stream takes them their, wiki says the Dorsal Stream leads to actions after you see a cue (foundation of machine learning):

Quote from link: The dorsal stream, commonly referred to as the "where" stream, is involved in spatial attention (covert and overt), and communicates with regions that control eye movements and hand movements. More recently, this area has been called the "how" stream to emphasize its role in guiding behaviors to spatial locations.

Spatial attention has nothing to do with…

actions after you see a cue (foundation of machine learning):

Quote
Then the Motors's OWN Primary and Association Cortices work backwards on the left (frontal lobe) of the brain and do actions on external cues (tested actions are linked to ex. rewarded senses>training):

How did you get this description from that link?

I appreciate the fact that you have tried to provide links, but even if a link was written by a PHD it’s still one person’s interpretation or theory.

Even if you had an accurate diagram and links that corresponded to your theory, even if you had a good argument… it would still be a theory.

You cannot prove a theory or convince anyone with words.  This is why so many huge organisations are building models and investing money... to provide a ‘working‘ proof.

You are trying to pass off your description as the actual way the brain works. All you have is a theory; the sooner you understand that the easier your journey will be.

Look at this diagram of internal cortex connections.



I could make up any path and state it was correct.

My point being that leading anyone through how you think the brain works... doesn't make it so.

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Visual input goes to the Primary Cortex 1st, see it in our picture? 100% correct.

Every type of signal or data transport has a format.  How do you imagine this ocular data is travelling down the optic nerve to the LGN? How is that format pattern matched?

You're skipping over HUGE problems that you need to solve and explain.

All you have is a brief outline/ idea of how you think the brain works, and if you weren't insisting that your theory explains the actual workings of the brain... this would go much smoother.

:)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 09:40:36 pm by korrelan »
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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2016, 11:02:10 pm »
1) Yes the LGN is the 1st major stop then. As my Master Diagram shows, what lies before the Primary Cortex is Homeostasis, Attention (link below > LGN has area of image & size motor-control), And Rewards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_geniculate_nucleus#Function_in_visual_perception

2) V2,V3 & V4, etc are all Primary Cortex for storing sensory input and acting as a tree for easy-searches (wide view stored here, no color here, small here, etc), then they go to the Association Cortex which it and Primary is actually just 1 unit.

3) As said in my links, all sensory and motor Scenes are linked to a single HOAC I will still call it. Plus you never provided a link to anything saying there's many. Besides it probably is the scen sequencer and the only one if my link said all senses and actions link to it as you live. And it's needed since the KNN tree for searching is just a assortment.

4) Ohhhhp :D Dorsal leads to motor activityyyy, see below. Machine Learning & Training is so that on sense cue the linked actions are done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_cortex#Pathways

5) And now you're saying the Primary and Association Motor Cortices are incorrect, look, don't you know Machine Learning?, actions are generated and stored, linked to eachother and senses on the other side, selected, tweaked and stored, don't you get it by now?

6)
Quote
Every type of signal or data transport has a format. How do you imagine this ocular data is travelling down the optic nerve to the LGN? How is that format pattern matched?

You're skipping over HUGE problems that you need to solve and explain.

1. By signals, saved too.
2. Matches will be done by the techniques we know of for upside downs etc AND being directed in the tree by features etc is 98% of match-selecting, as the input goes right to it/near it and doesn't hoke-pokey around looking places.
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Korrelan

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Re: The path visual input takes.
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2016, 11:53:57 pm »
Quote
Quote
Primary Cortex is each sensory input's first major stop:

Yes the LGN is the 1st major stop then.

If you have all the answers then why do you make so many mistakes?

Quote
What lies before the Primary Cortex is Homeostasis

homeostasis
noun
The tendency towards a relatively stable equilibrium between interdependent elements, especially as maintained by physiological processes.


What?

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Attention (link below > LGN has area of image & size motor-control), And Rewards.

Your loosing me?

Quote
V2,V3 & V4, etc are all Primary Cortex for storing sensory input and acting as a tree for easy-searches

What makes you think this?

Quote
As said in my links, all sensory and motor Scenes are linked to a single HOAC

No there not.

Quote
Besides it probably is the scen sequencer and the only one if my link said all senses and actions link to it as you live. And it's needed since the KNN tree for searching is just a assortment.

What?

Quote
And now you're saying the Primary and Association Motor Cortices are incorrect, look, don't you know Machine Learning?, actions are generated and stored, linked to eachother and senses on the other side, selected, tweaked and stored, don't you get it by now?

Hmmm… I'll let this one slide.

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By signals, saved too.

So the human nervous system works because… signals?

Quote
Matches will be done by the techniques we know of for upside downs etc AND being directed in the tree by features etc is 98% of match-selecting.
What?

:)

Look… This is just turning into a disagreement of concepts.

Let’s say that eventually you do convince someone that your ideas and theory are correct, and that you have some divine/ unique insight into the workings of the human condition… then what?

What’s the next step? What do you hope to gain from all this?

:)
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