What makes a joke ?

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Freddy

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What makes a joke ?
« on: September 08, 2016, 10:56:48 pm »
Had a thought earlier about where jokes come from. In my mind was a quick quip I made to someone I know on Facebook.

And then I wondered where the joke came from. I don't remember making up jokes when I was little. It must have been something I learnt during some period of my life. So it's probably a learned thing or is there a part of the brain that deals with the often absurd. Hmm.

A lot of jokes are funny because they are the opposite of something we might expect. So where in the brain are we creating these fanciful links ?

And for a punch line, why are jokes funny and why to some people not.

And discuss.

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Re: What makes a joke ?
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2016, 01:02:52 am »
The main foundations of Machine Learning in Artificial Intelligence is that you have Rewards for Sensory Input to supervise the Generated Actions Outputed so you Learn, then have Sensory Input Search stored senses to Initiate Actions as Output so you Reason. Artificial Rewards are everything else ranging from games to knowledge to movies to music and are created by linking rewarded senses to senses that wouldn't be rewarded. Rewards, and Artificial Rewards, make you go to things, and automatically make you laugh - just like that. Note that you can do any motor actions, for example I'll put my pinky forth and now make a half smile - just motor actions no different than other motors, simply I had generated them long ago and have just selected them now - not automatic here.
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kei10

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Re: What makes a joke ?
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2016, 01:19:36 am »
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A lot of jokes are funny because they are the opposite of something we might expect. So where in the brain are we creating these fanciful links ?
That's theoretically correct, we experience laughing moments of any kind it's because of relief from opposite expectations. Google defines that there is a general theory that explains laughter is called the relief theory. I didn't really look much into this theory, but it explains very well of the causation.

"Humor may thus for example serve to facilitate relief of the tension caused by one's fears. Laughter and mirth, according to relief theory, result from this release of nervous energy."

While the mechanism of laughter within humans have been long debated with multiple theories, however.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theories_of_humor

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And for a punch line, why are jokes funny and why to some people not.
That I believe it has to do with our experience within our life. All of us have different viewpoints, and range of knowledge, limited or different taste in sense of humor, and such. Some won't understand, some do. It entirely depends on the mentality of oneself.

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And then I wondered where the joke came from. I don't remember making up jokes when I was little. It must have been something I learnt during some period of my life. So it's probably a learned thing or is there a part of the brain that deals with the often absurd. Hmm.
I always fails to understand jokes because I am not sociable, I have hardly understood the experience of moments with anyone properly.

Therefore, even if one have seen and says; "A big skinny bald guy fell off stairs and rolled like a tumbleweed." -- Since I've never seen how it is like, I can't really fully grasp what is there to be relieved. While I could only imagine how sorry for this skinny guy falling off stairs like that, he could have broken his bones.

Oh, but that case is different for fatties! Oh boy hoo boy *Frantic laughter* :D
Just kidding, I'm sorry.

Quote
And discuss.
I discovered that figuring out what is there to laugh about relies on understanding on the viewpoint, and the manipulation of our emotion-recalling mechanism based on the subject that one is looking at. Of course if one just says; "A bald guy fell off the stairs." sounds cruel. But the part that makes it funny is the "fell and rolled like a tumbleweed", because that is the focal point of hilarity.

In common sense, the memory of "rolled like a tumbleweed" has no emotion value to anyone. Because it's just a tumbleweed. If one reads from left, to the right, one would attempt to recall from "sadness" into nothing to be worry about.

"He rolled like a tumbleweed" attempts to cause the reader to relate between each objects, this perhaps causes our emotional viewpoint to shift from the person into a tumbleweed instead. That fits the theory of relief. That is, unless one have a different emotional viewpoint for the tumbleweed.

I believe this is the same for the jokes. One asks a question that generates a certain tension, and then a ironic answer is given that blows one's mind off into unexpected relief, and that is what gives us the sense of humor.  O0

For additional example, let's say I told you a sarcasm that can be easily regarded as something terrible, or perhaps one just does not realize that it was a sarcasm, which means it is not real.

To counter that, one can further express that one is actually just joking to relieve the situation, with just a word or two.

The amount of relief and laughter is based on how much tension and how much that tension is then taken away. We sure have the ability to change our emotional viewpoint pretty fast.  O0
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keghn

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Re: What makes a joke ?
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2016, 01:44:29 am »
 I have to say your are both right there Kei10 and BF33.
 I call it a "rough neutral" reward. That is a negative reward and a positive reward generated at almost the same time
by the mind. Positive reward for discovery and a negative for predicting wrong.
 No such thing as a smooth or true neutral. You will never notice it and it will not register on the mind.

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Re: What makes a joke ?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2016, 01:48:41 am »
Also keep in mind you automatically laugh when you eat really good say french fries packed up high on the plate or get a really good video game - I have.
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Don Patrick

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Re: What makes a joke ?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2016, 12:10:03 pm »
I wrote a little bit about the aspects that make jokes funny, after a little research into "computational humour". See the subheading "A joke isn’t funny when you explain it":
https://artistdetective.wordpress.com/2015/09/07/computers-can-not-understand-sarcasm/

In my opinion, it's usually ambiguity that makes our brains conflict. The realisation of that harmless conflict is what's funny. Familiarity and mental occupation with the subject matter makes a joke more relatable to one person than to another, for which reason jokes about bodily functions are always funny.
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Freddy

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Re: What makes a joke ?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2016, 12:17:04 pm »
Thanks everyone for your thoughts, I liked them very much and they made a lot of sense.

The crux of my query was the creative side, so let's delve into that some more.

So we think that jokes are just another learnt pattern ? Like a 'Knock Knock' joke where there is a clear structure. We learn patterns that lead to something humorous ? The way we learn our own patterns is what we call our own sense of humour ? Which would explain why one person might laugh and another wouldn't I imagine.

Do you all think that somewhere in the brain there are stored things that do not make literal sense then ? Or does a regular sensible thought or pattern also have an absurd branch ?

Jokes like sudden quips don't seem the same to me as some learnt fact. They are more dynamic, so might there be some rule that we use to apply to the situation that we use to turn it into something humorous ? If someone doesn't get a joke, does it mean they haven't learnt that pattern ?

Lot of questions there so I'll stop now.

Don, you posted just as I did, so I will read your research, thanks.

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kei10

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Re: What makes a joke ?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2016, 01:36:41 pm »
Looks like something new to learn today, thank you for the link, Don Patrick. Now that gave us something new to ponder about, that is very interesting research!  ;D
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Art

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Re: What makes a joke ?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2016, 03:18:38 pm »
I once heard a comedian state that the definition or formula for humor is: "Unexpected misfortune to you, minus me, equals humor"

After thinking about this for a bit I had to agree, for it is and has been the premise of many comedy routines, plays and movies. Think Pratfalls and slapstick. The character in question might slip on a banana peel then land on his buttocks and the audience laughs loudly.

More often than not, it is the anticipation of something or some delivered statement that causes "in-your-face" irony, which usually elicits laughter. It's even true with a joke. We listen to it being told, we wait until the very end and finally the punch line.  The same is true with one liners that so many comedians like Stephen Wright tell: "I checked my Birth Certificate the other day...found an Expiration Date!"

A joke is usually in the form of a verbal tale...quite short, ending with a laugh at ourselves or at some other poor, unfortunate soul.

My friend had a yellow-naped amazon parrot. He told me to stick my finger in the bird's cage and tickle it under the chin. Being the idiot and trusting person that I am, I did so. The parrot promptly bit the tip of my finger and as I jerked my hand away in pain, the parrot began nodding his head up and down laughing loudly! I swear this really happened. So apparently some species of animals realize (and even appreciate) humor when it happens.

Should our bots (chatbots, robots, androids, or just computers) have or be given the ability to either create or enjoy humor (or both)?

Nice topic Freddy!

Just some thoughts.... ;)
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madmax

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Re: What makes a joke ?
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2016, 03:30:28 pm »
I think something is funny to one if there is some meaningful, to some point, so is not absolute nonsense, correlation that disrupt the context without harmful outcome to oneself.In dynamic reality preserving context is hard so harmless disruption of it, is kind of relief, or open emotional attachment for new possible outcomes of disrupted context which is manifested in increase dopamine release that enable sense of pleasure.laugh is,in my opinion, some kind of evolutionary defense reaction that is evolved upon this harmless disruption of context.But this is too simplifying picture, because every context has its own emotional value,and that could amplify or diminish disruption effects on context.       

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squarebear

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Re: What makes a joke ?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2016, 09:44:34 pm »
I remember researching a little about humour when I was entering the Funniest Computer Ever contest: http://funniestcomputer.neurogrid.com/home
I found a book in the library that I used as a basis. This page in particular was very useful:

The comedy module I made is still online. You can say to Mitsuku: "Tell me a joke about x" where x is dogs, a river, a green ball or whatever. I must have done it right as I won the contest in both the years it ran  :D
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yotamarker

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Re: What makes a joke ?
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2016, 10:51:44 pm »
a while back I was playing tekken tag with a friend
he was howarang and I was jack 5.
his hp was much higher than mine I was less than a quarter
he was kicking me relentlessly and I couldn't land a decent hit even if I did start a hit
he would anticipate me and block and continue his endless kick barrage
it was then I decided might as well...
and used the 101% karate chop, he was caught  of guard and tried to escape backwards
but I hit him ! and WON!
he was angry and I was happy but we both couldn't stop laughing.

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Art

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Re: What makes a joke ?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2016, 05:01:46 pm »
@Yotamarker, Your story serves to help illustrate Freddy's question of what makes a joke. Only those who play or have played the video game, Tekken or Tekken Tag, would understand or even appreciate you and your friend's laughter at the end of the fight.
Kind of like two good friends who arm wrestle, straining and sweating for the win. When one finally does win, then smile and laugh at the success, even though the opponent was not pleased for losing.

I can't actually consider any of this humorous or funny. In your scenario, one would have to be a participant to realize any humor at all.
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Don Patrick

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Re: What makes a joke ?
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2016, 10:14:53 pm »
Not all jokes may have a formula to them, some are on a really basic emotional level (schadenfreude for instance), but there are certainly formula to make jokes. I've been a longtime admirer of the "jokers" in my classes, and appropriated a very formulaic approach to making jokes:
I have a gigantic list of idioms and expressions memorised. Much like Squarebear's example, I take five words in mind that I associate with an event and try to fit them into an appropriate idiom, switching out the nouns or verbs. Though with "appropriate" being based more on literal/figurative meaning exchangability than on rhyme.
For some reason, rhyme is funny too. Perhaps because it features an association between two words that have nothing to do with one another. If I were a computational humour scientist I might test this theory by rhyming words that are closesly associated vs completely unassociated and see if the latter is funnier because it creates a greater contrast.

But then again it is difficult to take research on computational humour serious.
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LOCKSUIT

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Re: What makes a joke ?
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2016, 10:42:21 pm »
>Question:
>Why does it learn to go to food?
>Answer:
>By positive type rewards only.

>Question:
>Why does it learn to build a house not directly for food and rest?
>Answer:
>By unrewarded sensory input being linked to positively rewarded senses in memory only.


>Question:
>Why does it laugh when it eats food?
>Answer:
>By positive type rewards only.


>Question:
>Why does it laugh when it hears a joke?
>Answer:
>By unrewarded sensory input being linked to positively rewarded senses in memory only.

Correlation detected, correlation detection! Compute, compute!
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