A problem...

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frankinstien

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A problem...
« on: April 25, 2022, 07:31:20 pm »
I remember when I first heard of Raelians, that religion started by a formula 1 race car driver, named Rael, that claimed he was abducted by aliens and was shown all their secrets. Rael adopted an Abrahamic context for his religion and used all the stories of the Bible as evidence for aliens. In his descriptions of how the earth was created he mentions that the aliens created the oceans by using atomic bombs to blow out trenches and then fill them with water! I found the story soo amuzing, but then I said, wait a minute, the alien he describes is soo ignorant that it just might be real! You see as civilizations get more technologically sophisticated the dumber the population of such civilizations become. Think about it, if AI can do all the problem solving for us, why should we think at all! It's kind of like our bodies' immune system, we don't think about it just does what it's supposed to do.  Not only that but as civilizations become more sophisticated to the point of employing engineering selection and sustain their existence as a sophisticated civilization for hundreds of thousands of years, they can lose their ability to relate to natural selection.

To add more weight to this kind of argument there was an article in Scientific American that stated our universe is a creation of some advance civilization. Now here's the spooky injection of an Abrahamic suggestion, the author of the article states that reproducing universes need only one advance civilization, effectively one god. But why couldn't more than one Type A civilization exist that builds universes as well?

The article doesn't go into simulated universes but being able to re-create simulated reality is something we know is possible with ever-increasing realism. If a civilization has such an ability and it turns into a lifestyle, as it already has here on earth, then such a being could suffer from virtual reality, reality confusion, similar to dream reality confusion. Where say such a being were to turn up on our shores but it thinks our reality is something it created.

In the end, the author of the Scientific American article is still anthropomorphizing, since he's imagining an impetus to create universes as some investigation prompted by curiosity and the intent to create sophisticated life, a god-created man in his own image kind of idea! Where the success of a technological society is one that can harness gobs of energy. However, that doesn't have to be the case and technological societies that are very efficient need not require immense amount of energy, it might not need energy at all to create its computational universes, as I describe in a post about Time-Crystals.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 08:14:51 pm by frankinstien »

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infurl

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Re: A problem...
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2022, 10:57:30 am »
https://www.constructortheory.org/

That reminds me of something called constructor theory that I heard about recently.

In other news, information could be a fifth state of matter.

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ivan.moony

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Re: A problem...
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2022, 01:15:58 pm »
In other news, information could be a fifth state of matter.

It seems like matter has a dynamics information attached to it, and dynamics information could be extracted from matter by observing two neighbor time slices.

I heard also of possibility that black holes are in fact information gatherers, so the whole Universe exists on the event horizon of black holes, which makes black holes computers that drive the Universe.

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MagnusWootton

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Re: A problem...
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2022, 12:06:59 am »
Data is the fifth form of matter,   and grammar is the second set of physical laws!!!!

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frankinstien

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Re: A problem...
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2022, 12:28:27 am »
In other news, information could be a fifth state of matter.

Fifth state of matter? But matter in itself is information, so what do they mean by a fifth state?

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infurl

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Re: A problem...
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2022, 12:31:04 am »
Data is the fifth form of matter, and grammar is the second set of physical laws!!!!

That is extremely perceptive of you to notice that.

If one of the functions of intelligence is to "compress" information, using a grammar is the optimal way to do it.

I hope everyone is paying attention.

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infurl

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Re: A problem...
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2022, 12:34:57 am »
In other news, information could be a fifth state of matter.

Fifth state of matter? But matter in itself is information, so what do they mean by a fifth state?

The other four states are solid, liquid, gas, and plasma. They are all defined by the arrangement and motion of atoms. Some of these states involve ordered arrangements, and some of them involve (at the level of our perception) random arrangements. Encoding information with matter is a much more highly ordered arrangement than the other states and sufficiently different to qualify as a fifth state of matter, at least in some philosophies.

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frankinstien

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Re: A problem...
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2022, 03:29:21 am »
Encoding information with matter is a much more highly ordered arrangement than the other states and sufficiently different to qualify as a fifth state of matter, at least in some philosophies.

OK, so using matter to make up a code is what you're talking about, but intrinsically matter is information in itself, and can formalize to higher-orders of organization.  I personally wouldn't call it a state of matter since coding with matter, where I can't see how else you can code something without matter, would involve one or more of the four states of matter.  ::)

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infurl

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Re: A problem...
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2022, 03:57:35 am »
OK, so using matter to make up a code is what you're talking about, but intrinsically matter is information in itself, and can formalize to higher-orders of organization.  I personally wouldn't call it a state of matter since coding with matter, where I can't see how else you can code something without matter, would involve one or more of the four states of matter.  ::)

I agree with you in that I think it is a bit of stretch to call it a fifth state of matter because it would be something on a different dimension from the state of any actual matter, however there do seem to be some interesting ideas to explore there. For one thing, there are parallels with fractals which seem to add fractional dimensions to mathematical constructs. e.g. A sufficiently complex 2 dimensional shape defined by a fractal could be said to actually have 2.5 dimensions.

It sounds neat but I'm skeptical about that too. Making suppositions like that would have to permit something useful for it to "stick to the wall" in my view, much like imaginary numbers turned out to be extremely useful, whether you believe they really exist or not.

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MagnusWootton

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Re: A problem...
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2022, 10:48:05 am »
imaginary numbers are the components in/of a complex number. (banning the use of i, the square root of -1, it still has a meaning to me in algebra.)

if u have 12635232.

12,600,000 and 35,232 are two imaginary numbers that add up to it.  (components.)

x=a+b  <-is the supposed way the number is being built, and your guessing that.

I like integers the best, keeps everything simple. Ends up actually being unusual using them, not many people use integer raytracers, for example.  And integer only physics engines.    Built for high sample/frame rate.

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frankinstien

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Re: A problem...
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2022, 05:43:33 am »
Quote
It sounds neat but I'm skeptical about that too. Making suppositions like that would have to permit something useful for it to "stick to the wall" in my view, much like imaginary numbers turned out to be extremely useful, whether you believe they really exist or not.

Funny thing about interpretations, sometimes we get a little too picky. I mean in terms of QM it's been all over the place right down to consciousness is required, one can't predetermine particle states and the most famous is parallel universes. LoL, The issues with entanglement were violating some sacred QM rules, which obviously is a particle's state can not be predetermined. But if you view entanglement as a nano-wormhole it doesn't violate QM rules since it's the same particle! But allowing for a nano-wormhole that only happens under certain conditions, or reactions puts Ensitien's theories into jeopardy, or does it? I once was active on the string theory board way back when it was still a flaky theory, which is obviously why I was allowed to post on it!  :) I posted an idea that matter renders space as opposed to the understanding that matter is in a box called space. The idea went further stating that the particles build manifolds by virtue of their motions, which would not exclude hyperspatial dimensions. So manifolds would then overlap over one another which is what we experience as a spatial continuum, and they can also form micro wormholes as they interact with one another. I was so surprised when the board liked the idea, but because it's not a string-theory concept, other than it allows for hyper-dimensions, they felt that the problem of entanglement didn't warrant rewriting relativistic theories!

So I responded to the board by explaining how space-time as viewed by the current interpretation of Einstein's theory would not change much, well it would destroy space expansion.  :'( But two very important discoveries happened since then. One is dark matter, and the other is Higgs boson.  So, this is the notion: gravity as a force at distance had some very tough problems, one of which is gravity can not be shadowed or blocked as with other fields where those force carriers are absorbed, so gravitons don't get absorbed. Gravity was the weakest of the fields until dark energy was coined to explain space expansion, and light would have to have some kind of interaction with gravity as does restmass. So, to think of gravity as a force at distance lost out to an idea of space-time curvature where there is no interaction with mass, its space that curves the manifold, so matter has no choice but to follow a path constrained by curved space. But, then Higgs- Boson was discovered and that proved all matter is actually a virtual particle.  Add to the idea of dark matter and well...maybe gravity as a force at a distance might work?

Looking at gravity as a force at a distance means that gravity has to interact with matter but gravitons don't get absorbed remember? So how can gravity work as a force at a distance: The Higgs-Boson is an example of particle interactions where particles don't get absorbed. If gravitons had a similar mechanism then they could interact with matter, but never get absorbed! OK, but one would then ask but how can momentum be imparted without energy? You see the absorption of the force carrier is the energy that gets imparted to the particle to move it.  Since I'm describing gravitons as particles that interact with matter it could power the momentum force with zero-point energy! So when gravitons interact with matter they grab a free-energy particle and impart momentum to matter, including photons! This idea explains how gravity is powered and why it's so weak. All other force fields work under a net-net concept where each particle gives up a force-carrier photon it gets one back in exchange with a different particle, so no energy is lost!

With this kind of gravity, all the effects of lensing, curved trajectories, gravity waves, black holes, and time-dilation would still work exactly how Enstiens equations predict they would.  :D All, but space expansion.  :'(

But wait! Remember dark matter? The reason we think there is space expansion is the red-shift effect of light from other galaxies receding from us and they appear to be doing it faster than light! Well..would dark matter create a redshift on light coming from those galaxies? But wait, how can I explain the acceleration of the expansion? Well...What if more dark matter is coming into the Universe from outside of it? As more dark matter enters our universe the more red shit we would see. So the measurement made that we thought was accelerated expansion is actually the deceleration of the Universe! So those galaxies aren't expanding away from us they're decelerating and will eventually collapse our universe.   

The problem I've always had with dark energy is where does its source come from and why can't we measure it. Zero-point energy has been measured and literally observed with countless experiments demonstrating the Casimir effect, so we know it's real. What if dark matter is really zero-point energy?

The last point, one might ask is why can't we move in a hyper-dimensional direction. Well, that one is kind of easy, since gauge pheonamena is literally bonded together by field effects that operate on an inverse square principle, 3 dimensions are the sweet spot where field densities are strong enough to hold things together. Add an extra dimension and the volume of space increases by a magnitude of order which would lower thier densities. But quantum particles could have such nano-scale motions that would allow for micro-wormholes and spatial superposition.  8)

So, this long-drawn-out post is really about how interpretations of what mathematical models are describing aren't necessarily to be taken literally, they are just models that provide an effective framework to solve problems and predict phenomena. But by changing the interpretation we could get a different, logically equivalent description that could open new horizons. I like being an idealist when it comes to science.

Dare challenge Einstein, he won't mind, I guarantee it... >:D
« Last Edit: May 02, 2022, 09:54:19 am by frankinstien »

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MagnusWootton

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Re: A problem...
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2022, 07:45:11 am »
OKhams boredom, is the principle that the more boring the explanation the more probably that its the correct one.   :2funny: