[Freddy]

Hmmm, yeah on the iPlayer one I imagine that could worry some people.  Personally I never use it.  And there is still such a thing as video recorders and DVD-RW for when you can't catch it on TV.  So personally I would use one of those options and avoid the charge altogether although I do only have a VCR, but it works.

I say I never use it, so does this service let you watch a lot of old shows ?  I tend to see enough repeats on Freeview, but maybe I should check it out.

My gut reaction is why do I have to pay the BBC again when the License fee is meant to be there to cover it.  The BBC is supposed to be a national service that informs, educates and entertains...hmmm

Do people in the US or anywhere else have to pay for a television license ?

The second story about the overload on the internet was interesting too.  I don't know what to say about that, except that I hope the guy saying not to worry about it is right.

Thanks Mav, good reading

[Data]

I am a little confused about all this, I have a fixed phone line but my BB comes down a cable, (I have the 20mb Virgin service) so would I have to pay the 50p tax, I can't work that out.

Freddy I agree with you 50p is nothing these days, but also I feel its a tax on education and for that I think its wrong.


I do use the iPlayer a lot, basically my PC is rigged up to my 37 inch TV, its how I use it all the time, and I use windows media center to watch and record TV, but I live in a crap signal area and about 1 day every week I cant get a TV signal so then its the iplayer that I have to use to watch TV.

I feel we already pay more than enough for a TV license in the UK so to charge for  the iplayer, when sometimes I have to use it just to watch TV is 100% wrong.

[Art]

License? No.

One will usually choose to go with satellite or cable. Since TV in this country went to all digital, even those consumers who used the "rabbit ears" antenna in the past had to convert over by purchasing a small digital box. Actually their picture became better and they usually ended up getting more channels than before!

I'm sure our local cable provider has some taxes incorporated in the bill in the form of some such "fee" but the vast majority of people, being used to "fees", don't question it and go ahead and pay the bill!

I still can't quite come to grips with this VAT (Value Added Tax) thing of yours...Where's the VALUE? Unless the real VALUE is for the government then I get it.

Depending on which of the 50 states we live in, our taxes can vary quite a bit. There are a few states that have NO State sales tax at all! Some do not have a State Income Tax either but ALL have Federal Income Tax which rolls around every year and is due and payable on April 15th (if money is owed to the Government).

Some States have different districts, counties, boroughs, areas and are taxed differently from one to the other.
Sales tax where I live is now 6% on the dollar. Some states charge sales tax on say, prepared food (like a bucket of fried chicken) but not if you purchased the chicken wrapped from a grocery store. Others do. It's up to the individual state.

Clear as mud!!
How's that for VALUE?

[Freddy]

I am a little confused about all this, I have a fixed phone line but my BB comes down a cable, (I have the 20mb Virgin service) so would I have to pay the 50p tax, I can't work that out.

Freddy I agree with you 50p is nothing these days, but also I feel its a tax on education and for that I think its wrong.

Yes, well today with a fresh mind and having thought more about it, I am tending to think it is a worse idea than I originally thought.  Clearly it is wrong to charge people who don't even use BB, but equally I think it is also wrong to charge those people who are lucky enough to already have super fast broadband and are willing to pay for it.  Perhaps their thinking is that is a relatively small charge that they may just get away with it.

I may take a look at iPlayer, one thing though I noted in that article was that this charge for BBC programs outside of the TV screen is not new - we've been paying years for BBC videos.  Really might this charge actually be less than the equivalent DVD ?  One for me to look into...

But yes, I agree these services are useful to some people, I don't have much experience of them so far, so didn't want to comment too much.  I have used 4OD - that's the Channel 4 one and I found that useful when I wanted to watch old Time Teams.  Not sure if I would want to pay for it though, because the actual image size is not that great and the quality of picture is a bit poor.

Having to pay again for what the BBC offers does seem wrong.

[Freddy]

Art said :

I still can't quite come to grips with this VAT (Value Added Tax) thing of yours...Where's the VALUE? Unless the real VALUE is for the government then I get it.

Well I learnt that if you add value to something then you charge VAT.  Say someone bought a tree trunk and sold it to someone else.  Then that guy turns it into a chair.  The second guy will have added value and so charges VAT.  I think that's the idea, I was never that good at Economics..

Some things are VAT exempt like for example disabled people don't have to pay for equipment designed for them or altered for them.  Other things like food and books are non VAT too.

Your system in the US sounds as complicated as ours, especially with all the different states.

If you didn't know, the BBC here doesn't use advertising to generate revenue - that's the whole point of the TV license - we fund them directly.  So one good thing about watching BBC shows is you don't get adverts.  They aren't even supposed to mention company names and even have to cover up trading names on products etc...

[Data]

Here is a little info on the iplayer.

The iPlayer is very limited but it does have some plus points, I will try to explain.

Picture quality has improved a lot since the launch of it, now there is standard quality, actually quite good and easily watchable and also there is HD quality, programs in HD are very good quality, not quite blue ray HD but not far off. (You need 3.5mb minimum download speed to stream HD.)

The limiting factors are what programs are available and for how long, most of the programs are only available for about a week so you do have a limited time to catch up on stuff you have missed.

Quite often the BBC put older programs on it but what and when is tricky, really you would have to check it every day to see if that program you missed has returned.

The best way to use the iPlayer is to download the BBC iPlayer desktop, that way you download the programs to your PC, very handy for those who don't have fast enough BB to stream the video, it also is very useful for when the iPlayer server gets swamped and it doesn't matter how fast your BB is the video just will not stream.

However you get 7 days to view the downloaded content after that it gets switched off and can't be viewed, so its not really like a DVD that can be viewed when ever you like.

Actually I feel quite lucky that we have the iPlayer, for me it is very handy and has become a main way of watching TV.

One final thought, as Freddy has said, is the total lack of adverts on the BBC, ok we have to pay a TV licence but in return there are no adverts and I am happy to pay the licence because I hate adverts, yes hate them, there isnt many things that I hate but adverts on TV is one of them.

[Maviarab]

Now its getting interesting hehe

Ok, at the moment, for once I agree with the BBC, they do not want to charge for their iplayer service as they feel it is wrong (or more like, they know they would not get away with it)...BUT pretty much every other company offering a similar service does want too...but because the BBC wont...its a stalemate....

So, will it stay as is, will others charge, or will they force the BBC's hand? Only time will tell I guess.

And as for adverts, well...the BBC has no adverts has it? Think about that one for a second. It has just as many 'adverts' as every other channel (cable not withstanding), BUT, they get away with it because the 'adverts' are all for their own products lol...clever eh?

Also, lets not forget (and this one really gets my iron up), the BBc spend millions every year on their little designs to show you what channel your watching (2, 3 or BBC4 etc)...and its all uneeded. OK it might look pretty, but your paying for it. Secondly, there is an 'advert' on the CBeebies channel (toddlers channel) for its own programs, with the music of 'what a wonderful world' to it by Mr. Armstrong.

Now, its an advert for kids programs, only shown on the kids channel....watched by kids/toddlers who could not care less if the music was by Elvis or Abba, and guess what...the people who pay for their TV licence...have basically paid the royalties to allow the BBC to use this music?

Now please tell me with a very good argument why you may think that this is not a complete and utter waste of YOUR money (I say your as I refuse to pay the TV licence)?

To go back the broadband issue, again as freddy now appreciates, if I'm paying for faster broadband than the government says is a  inimum, then why should I pay the tax?

Maybe, perhaps, if you accept the 2mb limit, pay the tax...but then is that fair to the people on 2mb to subsidise technology I don't mind paying for directly myself to a company?

Imo, it really is very hard to justify this tax in any shape way or form.



ART:

God damn...must be very confusing if say you lived/worked accross 3 different states etc....I would never know what tax to pay to who lol.

To give you a braoder idea though, VAT is simply a governemtn TAX...if you pay VAt on something (as a company) you are entitled to claim part of it back (providing its a relevent business expenditure). But the most galling thing here Art, which many other people who do not live here realise is this.

We go towork, pay 2 taxes on our wages. Everything we then buy is taxed....you work hard, try and save a little money up, save too much, then get taxed on your savings....you eventually manage to buy your own home (which has a different tax on it|) and then when you die, you leave your loved ones (if you have any money left after all the tax you have paid) what you have ammassed in your life...and then your loved ones, pay tax on what you left them, which was repeatedly taxed in the first place...and so on and so on and so on.....

[Freddy]

And as for adverts, well...the BBC has no adverts has it? Think about that one for a second. It has just as many 'adverts' as every other channel (cable not withstanding), BUT, they get away with it because the 'adverts' are all for their own products lol...clever eh?

Yeah, I think the point Datahopa and I were making was that the adverts don't interfere with watching the actual programs...and I don't really have a problem with the BBC informing me what shows might be coming up, I might like them.  Not clever really, just practical imho

I'm sure they waste money though, I 'd find it hard to come up with a company that doesn't - not an excuse for them though.  Although you have to consider that one man's junk is another man's treasure.

I agree, I think inheritance tax is one of the worst ones out there and it's plain insulting to pay tax on money that has already been taxed during your dead relatives lifetime anyway.

Your wife died ?  Oh sorry, can we have a bit of the action ?  However most people probably don't exceed the threshold... It's still wrong though.

But the most galling thing here Art, which many other people who do not live here realise is this...

I think most of us do realise that Mav, we do live here afterall lol

[Maviarab]

hehe, meant most people who 'do not' live here dont realise exactly how much taz we actually do pay compared with many other countries

Agree most of us are under the inheritence threshold, but it probably is the most galling tax applied inthis country.

And some wonder why English nationals are leaving these shores in droves...

[Freddy]

Apologies Mav, I read that wrong - I thought you wrote 'people who live here'...

Makes you wonder why so many people want to come here too.

Datahopa, thanks for the iPlayer information - I will take a look tonight - before they charge me for it !

[Maviarab]

Heh, aye its another debate for another thread...but thats an easy one dude...

Its the benefit system set in place in 2007 that entitles them to benefits that we are not entitled too...

but again, a diff debate for a diff thread for really a completly diff forum lmao

[lrh9]

I don't live in the UK, so I can't really comment, but as a general principle I support a strong government.

[Maviarab]

You see, Freddy and myself arguing has made this thread interesting now...

So lrh...what exactly do you mean by a 'strong' government?

[lrh9]

You see, Freddy and myself arguing has made this thread interesting now...

So lrh...what exactly do you mean by a 'strong' government?

A government that regulates public life and private life to an extent.

[Maviarab]

So an oppresive totalitarian government?

You should move here lrh...you be heaven lol