[Korrelan]

Ask any neuroscientist and they will tell you only certain animals are considered self aware, dolphins, primates, elephants, etc... Cats are not considered part of this exclusive group.



Mimo obviously didn't get the memo.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test

 

[HS]

Oh dear... This is worse than the singularity.

[LOCKSUIT]

Ain't she a pretty little thing...

Phew...

But all animals can see themselves by simply looking down at their arms...they coordinate, see their hands, lick them to clean themselves, etc. If you put nail clippers to their hands, they get scared and mad and pull legs away. Etc etc. There's prediction here, expectation to see their hands, etc.

This is just some knowledge goin on...it's like um...anything else...

Why would self touch knowing you did it not being tickled therefore etc be of importance? Why humor? Why etc?

Really, how does that help an AGI? In my books that is not the key ingredients/agents.

Prediction, yes, expecting a self tickle. Knowing its you also. As for mirror, maybe its some more prediction goin on, and knowledge.

[Korrelan]

Cats only have around 300 million neurons in their brains, although they actually have more neurons in their visual areas than even we do.

As I stated above, cats have never been considered self aware, this is based on experimental results (mirror test) and using their neuron count as a metric compared to humans, primates, etc. who do exhibit self awareness and have far greater neuron counts.

It takes a lot of smarts to realise how a mirror works, to recognise ones self reflection, the cat seems to be doing this with a paltry 300 million neurons, that’s important from a neurological viewpoint if your studying intelligence.  99% of cats don’t exhibit this type of self awareness… why?

When you look in the mirror how do you know it’s you? More importantly how will your AGI know when it’s looking at its own refection? What is the mechanism behind the process?

+ I found it interesting and amusing.

 

[LOCKSUIT]

Seeing yourself in mirror or by looking down at self, is of course vision...you can make up your hand is just a human hand... But we do have senses like sounds stored that say "this is me" linked to vision of me ex. from photograph, we expect to see it when enter the bathroom, we go to look at our hair (to see it, move it), we expect to see visual limbs moving when move certain way ex. if move arm vision in head then arm moves and we expect to see what imagined in brain enter eyes. You may get reward by looking in mirror, taking out a stinger or seeing how mirrors work. Since a mirror would just benefit out rewards, it may be clear to say that using it/knowing it's you is just you getting reward from it i.e. fixing hair, removing stinger, etc. For example expecting visual limb movements in mirror if move is only going to be used for rewards, even just checking mirror is showing limbs moved.....it all about rewards. When you go to a mirror it is for rewards. And you coordinate self using vision just like when standing upright walking or a dog trying to use paw to pull in ball.

So next time you go to a mirror, remember, it is for rewards, and you are using visual expected feedback to adjust movements. But knowledge controls it all.

[Korrelan]

I don’t think you're quite understanding my point or question.

I agree that seeing our hands/ body does help us calibrate our position in perceived reality, but your reflection is a whole different ball game.

It’s all about your sense of self, your self awareness and consciousness, it’s a subjective experience.  You don’t reach out and try to touch the reflection; you recognise both your outward/ external appearance and your internal model of self in the external mirror.

There is a very subtle yet complex change in feedback; you are seeing an external stimulus as an internal object… self.

If your model requires just ‘rewards’ then cool.

 

[LOCKSUIT]

"There is a very subtle yet complex change in feedback; you are seeing an external stimulus as an internal object… self."

... XD ._.   everything in the external world is an internal object, it's how we reason

[Art]

But all animals DON'T!

As Korrelan mentioned, only the vast majority of animals, especially those with higher intelligence will be able to recognize themselves in a mirror.

Some kittens, dogs or birds will see their reflection in a mirror and practically (if not) attack it, thinking it is another of its kind which might pose to be a threat.

It takes a special intelligence to recognize one's own reflection and recognize that the owner is the one looking at it.
Elephants, chimps, dolphins, and this cat, perhaps there are others but that is the gist of it.

Several animals exhibit very interesting problem-solving skills but this is different. This is about "self".

[DemonRaven]

Any cat lover will tell you that they are far more intelligent then scientists give them credit for. They are little scientists themselves and learn to do amazing things. Mine decided my halloween decoration was his own person human toy. lol lol.