[Dante]

Greetings all, I've made a new years resolution to get my family and a few friends to at least try Linux this year, so humor me with this account;

Linux; to some, a mystery, to others, the last gift from God. A system that excels at everything it touches.

My own experience with Linux has been rather interesting (and entirely relevant to any AI website). If you think of a mature Windows installation of a submarine, your the one trying to stop leaks with a plunger. But in Linux, that dosent happen. You see, Linux is haunted. By Daemons!

Daemon; intelligent program used for a multitude of tasks.

One daemon, for instance, was fixing these 'leaks' as fast as they came up, I felt rather useless; there I was, plunger in hand, with nothing to do.
Another was indexing, recognizing and analyzing my data: my photos, my videos, my music, my documents, my emails and my web history. You might of guessed, but I'm a heavy computer user, this machine could write a rather large biography on me if it chose to do so.

My heavy use hadn't gone unnoticed, my little army of daemons noticed, and downloaded and installed an anti-RSI app. It locks me out of my computer for five minutes every 45 minutes. I cannot change, remove or otherwise disable it. Another's task was to keep my machine secure; close any unused ports and scan incoming and outgoing traffic.

Even more are involved in the maintenance of the machine, there is one that checks for installed updates, one that keeps a virtual eye on running processes and is responsible for allocating CPU cycles to them, even one whose principal goal is alerting the user to any inconvience.

As someone fascinated by AI, I can't help but be astounded by all of this (for those interested, it's effectively called a 'Multi-Agent System with a medically biased affective computing system', Translation; large amount of bots working together with a user goal of preventing medical conditions brought on by extreme computer use)

Even more astounding are the amount of prototypical AI apps out there today, there is one, for instance, which uses a chatbot to allow you to operate your entire machine. There are many, many many tools for developing neural networks, exploring a almost hypnotic recursive fractal, or even simulating entire computational systems into organizing themselves into a society. Even more in the way of tools then I care to mention. Sourceforge and Freshmeat become your two best friends when on this system, trust me! 

So, if your interested, give it a go. Appeal to both your fascination of AI, and help complete my New Year's Resolution, all at the same time

[Freddy]

Sounds great Dante, I have only touched the surface, but as you know my new PC will be dual boot which means I will make more use of Linux this year.  Looking forward to it.

[Maviarab]

Sorry to be a martyr (you knew it would be me didnt you? hehe) but non of that really compells me or makes me want to use it.

Windaz for all its foibles, runs fine here for me, not had a bsod or crash for 2 years now and quite frankly, on the system I am running now, I wonder why people actually call windows, XP now to me has become as stable as a sturdy table, why would I want to learn/change to something new?

For me, a lot of what the little AI bots are doing for you, I would rather command myself than leaving it to some autonomous 'thing', and when I get something, I usually like it to be complete and do everything I want it to do 'out of the box', not to have to download, install, test, check numerous things. Firefox is a perfect example, may well be better than IE, but until it comes 'complete' I choose not to use it.

[Dante]

As you wish, Mav.

I for one am currently enjoying my time with a computer that does indeed "Just work"

I freely admit that sometimes, for some reason, XP does turn stable, somewhat like steel. You can pound it and pound it and pound it, and it wont fail...all it'll take is one little push and it snaps completely.

I would like to point out for your sake, Mav, that XP is 32-bit, which means your system may suffer, anytime from now to 2038, another Y2K bug. This time, there is no defence, as it's a primary part of the OS. Systems have already failed, so I would suggest moving to a 64 bit system when it becomes possible.

On the terms of IE, I do not let my family run Firefox. I've lived with IE for most of my life, I know the faults of it's older generation. I also know there are massive faults in that system (but I cant tell you where, or how to fix them, due to a non-disclosure agreement) which can mean your entire system hijacked.

I would also like to make it clear I chose a system that didnt have me as the pilot all the time. This wasnt forced upon me


I'm going to guess your of the mentatily "If it aint broke, dont fix it". But I've seen Windows at deep levels, beleive me, it isnt pretty, and it isnt workable. All it will take is time for those people who make Windows hell to find them.

[Art]

Being a Piscean, I tend to like the middle of the road. More to the point...I run one of my computers with XP-Media Center Edition and the other with Ubuntu's incarnation.

Windows is windows and with all its flaws and patches it manages to get the job done and is the most used OS in the world.

Ubuntu, on the other hand, works wonderfully well for practically any task I throw at it and with the numerous self checks, updates and thousands of FREE programs from which to choose, it's hard to believe that more people don't or aren't using it.

There are those (you know who you are) that feel that unless you pay hard earned cash for something, it's not worth having. Get a grip!
That's simply not true and couldn't be further from the truth. There is strength in numbers and the Open Source programming efforts of Ubuntu show this in its stability.

I had tried others like Mandrake then Mandriva in the past but Ubuntu is the cat's meow for an open source OS that just works!

I tend to shy away from and would never again do a dual boot with Windows and another OS on the same machine. I have my reasons for it and believe me it wasn't pretty at the time. Do what you will but do so with a measure of caution.

Give Ubuntu a try...I think you'll be pleasantly surprised!

[Maviarab]

Dante, at the risk of upsetting you, all these horror stories and warnings...with nothing to actually prove it (for varying reasons), so yes, if it isn't broken and works fine, then why would you want to change it?

As for XP 'just working' sometimes, nothing to do with that. I am careful what I install, never let it self update, and am very good at knowing about operating systems and how they work, so my 'custom system' is stable for no other reasons than the system itself, my knowledge and care and MS finally getting their act together. No suprise, no 'just went stable', its like that for a reason.

As for the Y2K bug, what was that exactly, I don't recall anything bad happening anywhere...just plenty of  scaremongering with nothing to back it up. Some may be gullible enough to fall for it (my mums one of them) but perhaps you can provide some proof that 32 bit systems are at risk of 'popping' at any moment. If this was the case, I seriously doubt Microsoft would be still be selling them knowing the risk...imagine the law suit...

But still, an actual concrete reason to switch to Linux would be appreciated as, as far as I am aware, most windows applications won't run on Linux without some form of emulator which in itself takes up resources. Now as my primary machine (I have 3) is for gaming and graphic work, why should I start to install and run emulators to get certain programs to work (without proper support) or not use them at all as I'm pretty sure most of my games won't work on Linux.

If this is a wrong assumption, then please correct me and I would be more inclined to look into it further. As a server based OS I will readily agree that Linux takes some beating, but as that is not what I use any of my pc's for I cant see any advantage or reason for switching.

[Dante]

Art, thanks for that
I would, however, like to correct you, WIndows is the most used desktop machine, but the amount of Linux machines far outweigh it. (Servers, embedded OSes, etc etc)

Mav, no need to upset me, I've met far more difficult people then you who I've at least gotten to give Linux a try.

It's good to see your careful, Mav, but for a large part of the world, people arnt just so careful

the Y2K bug was acutally a problem, one that cost the world a grand total of $200 Million, and even then, some systems failed completely. I thought I might as well mention the newer problem because as far as I know, it's a fundemental flaw of 32-bit OSes (hence why there are movements afoot to phase them out) so you might as well switch to a 64 bit system if you change (you can run 32 bit apps in a 64 bit system, but not the other way around, I dont think)



Define concerte, For me, it's the ease of use, it's the fact I'm no longer paying £120 every year for security software, it's complete customization, It's because it's more or less the most biggest AI project in the world and it's because I can get a lot of new technology working on old hardware. My Ubuntu system takes up a 1/4 of the space my XP system does, and I've managed to get 3D effects (which Vista needs a young computer for) working on a machine that was new just before Win 98 came out, as well as it being friendly to the environment for increasing my hardware's usability lifetime, it also consumes 13% less power, which on my new lappie (with Vista preinstalled, I had 30 mins of power, I now have Ubuntu and 1 and a half hours worth) is everything.

Perhaps the most real reason for me is because I do not like Microsoft's tactics; for instance, they recently claimed Linux violates 235 of their patents. When asked to name them, Microsoft remained strangely silent, other then 'They were too numerous to mention'. It isnt the first time Microsoft have pulled off nasty tricks like that. XP, for instance, came in two flavors, there was a £100 price tag diffrence, Professional was a system with about 6 options turned on that were disabled by default in the Home editon...

Mav, I know your system is stable, but I must ask, for how much longer? When XP goes offline, it'll go the way 98 and 95 did, a huge influx of viruses rendering it completely useless for online activities. Thus, I ask you not to suddenly switch over, but burn a copy of Ubuntu, try it in Live CD mode, see what you think and when the time comes to turn off XP for good (not too far away) at least you'll have an alternative. Trying it out can't be that hard, eh?


EDIT: Just went over your post to see if I missed anything, and yes I did; Dreamworks, Pixar, Industrial Light and Magic, Disney..big names in the graphics department, no? They all use Linux and it's software, if it's good enough for them, why isnt it good enough for the standerd Windows system?

[Art]

Dante,

Sorry but it seems we're both incorrect about the most widely used OS!
It's not Windows, Linux nor Unix. Check out the story below:

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/31855.html

[Maviarab]

Notice you failed to comment on my comments regarding compatibility issues.

So it would seem, for 90% of what I use a PC for, Linux is useless to me...so again...why even bother considering looking at it when it cant do the majority of what I want it to do?

So, until it physically self implodes, I will always be running a machine with XP on it, if for nothing else but to play (what will be by then) old games on it.

[Dante]

Art, I'm unwilling to trust that article, it's quite old. The information in contains within can be safely considered not correct due to the vast amount of computing devices manufactured now rather then in 2003. If I remember right, ITRON was going to merge with Linux. Sadly I havent heard anymore since.

Mav; I would like to state that whilst I would be very happy for you to at least try it, I concede that your currently happy. I can also state I wish that, in the future, you look at Linux as a viable alternive, once XP is dead and buried. Acceptable?

[Maviarab]

Dante, I'm a hardcore gamer first and foremost, until Linus becomes a gaming OS platform, it will, unfortunately, never be a viable alternative for what my daily needs are

[Dante]

I can't argue there, Linux gaming isnt the most spectacular at the mo (even though can play just about everything, a few items do require some tweaking)

I'll leave you with this, though, Vista don't like XP games, so your in for a rough ride either way.

Personally, I rather like STEAM, it means I never buy from a dodgy vendor, my software cant get scratched, and it acts as Middleware so I never need worry about my platform.

But, as I said, all I can hope for is that in the future, be it soon or quite a few years away, you look at Linux.

Art; it's nice to see I'm not alone.
I already convinced Tux to bring Freddy into the family; Freddy, I hope your examinations into Linux prove fascinating.

So, if you could all spread the word to those whom you think it a viable alternative, please do.

[Freddy]

Well I can see myself using Linux to surf the net in the future a lot more and I love that funky desktop that comes with Mandriva.  As to what I will use it for then at the moment I do not know.  There are reasons for me to keep XP too though as like Mav I like my games.  I don't see myself having any problems with old games working as for me I once I am done with a game I rarely go back to it.  And anyways you are right about Vista not always working with old games, it's the same problem I had when moving from 98 to 2000 and then to XP.  Some stuff just didn't make the move.  I would love to see Linux become more popular so I don't have to shell out for an operating system just to play games.

Linux has a host of serious software which is just as good as a lot of windows stuff so no trouble there.  So for now - I will use both, each for their respective merits.

[daryy]

  I have only touched the surface, but as you know my new PC will be dual boot which means I will make more use of Linux this year.  Looking forward to it.Mercury AC Compressor - Discount AC Parts offers high quality, discount Mercury AC Parts for all Mercury Makes and Models.
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