Poll

Is potential AGI finding cures to diseases worth of temporary job losses because of the same AGI advance?

Yes, AGI should be made as soon as possible
6 (75%)
No, we should wait for humanity to become more socially aware
2 (25%)
I don't want to be a part of this ungrateful decision
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Is it worth of trouble?

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ivan.moony

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Is it worth of trouble?
« on: March 13, 2016, 10:37:07 pm »
What do you think? If the AGI would be outputted to the public right now, a job crisis would be inevitable, unless we bring new laws that would protect employees. At the same time, another branch of AGI would rapidly bring new cures. Would it be worth of trouble?

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Don Patrick

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Re: Is it worth of trouble?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2016, 06:15:45 pm »
I think if you introduce it without regard to the consequences, you're just exchanging disease for poverty. How about have the AGI fix poverty first, then disease.
CO2 retains heat. More CO2 in the air = hotter climate.

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ranch vermin

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Re: Is it worth of trouble?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2016, 08:32:41 am »
comon man,  we need to get to the next type of civilization  -  but i say yes,  its a perilous occupation,   but so many jerks CANT EVEN MAKE A NORMAL COMPUTER LET ALONE THE ROBOTS COMPUTER.....   DO IT!   

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ivan.moony

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Re: Is it worth of trouble?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2016, 04:35:36 pm »
I wonder what solution would really smart AGI come up with. Maybe it would operate as a virus being spread over the web, offering help where appropriate, but restricting its services for non ethic requests.

Intriguing scenario, I have to admit.  >:D

Edit: the key would be in hiding its source code, not to be available for non ethic exploitation.

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DemonRaven

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Re: Is it worth of trouble?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2016, 03:04:44 am »
I think if you introduce it without regard to the consequences, you're just exchanging disease for poverty. How about have the AGI fix poverty first, then disease.

I agree with Don. Swapping one problem for another is not solving anything. Now if countries adopt a basic income guarantee for all its citizens then yes i would say go ahead.
So sue me

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Art

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Re: Is it worth of trouble?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2016, 12:25:44 pm »
Socialism? I hope not!
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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DemonRaven

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Re: Is it worth of trouble?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2016, 04:45:22 pm »
Socialism? I hope not!

There are elements of socialism in all democracies now. Just as there  is elements of democracy in socialist countries.  Such a type of income would be necessary if  AI advances to the point where jobs are being taken away.
So sue me

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ivan.moony

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Re: Is it worth of trouble?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2016, 06:53:33 pm »
Shouldn't we all help if someone is in trouble? If someone is down, shouldn't we all go down (if we must) to get her/him up?

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Don Patrick

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Re: Is it worth of trouble?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2016, 09:26:57 pm »
Basic income isn't socialism, Art. Really, there is more than Commies and 'Muricans.

Depends, Ivan, how big a picture you can see. If you want to look at things with a narrow mind, then sure, you'll want to help anyone you can. If you're tasked to play God however, then no, I have to regularly release a plague just to keep the overpopulation in check. Meanwhile that population has issues when I release a mere 1000 foxes in a nearby forest and kills all but 50. Like I said: It depends on how big a picture you can see. If you can't see it, then please leave playing God to me ;)
CO2 retains heat. More CO2 in the air = hotter climate.

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djchapm

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Re: Is it worth of trouble?
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2016, 04:01:50 pm »
AGI is almost becoming a religious discussion these days.  Sort of like the doom-sayers when they fired up the Hadron Collider.  Don't Do it !  You might kill the world!  Not pursuing AGI is like not pursuing space in the 70s, or not pursuing atomic weapons, or not pursuing unmanned vehicles.  Or never opening the closet door because you don't know what's in side.  We're human - open that door dammit!  I'd much rather know than not know.

Sort of drives me nuts if you can't tell!  So Is it worth the trouble, absolutely.  It could help us solve many of the scientific problems we have today. 

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Art

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Re: Is it worth of trouble?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2016, 12:21:27 pm »
Oh we have Basic income...it's called Minimum Wage...a "standard" given to those willing or able to work and unfortunately, it is actually at of below poverty level in that one couldn't possibly pay bills and survive on Minimum Wage alone. There is talk of raising it to a more respectable level but we'll see.

For the rest of the "socialism" to which I alluded. It is not right, to my way of thinking, to take a portion of my hard earned money and give it to someone who won't work. There should be no "entitlements". Those who'd rather sit on their porches and keep taking should be required to perform work, whether in the parks, libraries, day cares, roadsides, school yards, etc. In other words, there is and never has been such thing as a Free Lunch. Someone, somewhere is paying for it.

There are those who are actually in need of assistance, disabled, elderly, very low income families with dependents, etc. Those who expect entitlements without exchange of labor or services is making things bad for the rest of those trying to get by.

In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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Zero

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Re: Is it worth of trouble?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2016, 12:52:00 pm »
 ???
You speak about AGI as a slave. Like, "hey you AI, find cures and make money, now!"
But I don't think AGI will be slave. Point is: if it's a slave, then it's definitely not AGI.
So, it will find cures if it decides to work on it. It will take jobs if it wants money.

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ivan.moony

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Re: Is it worth of trouble?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2016, 03:50:40 pm »
It is not hard to imagine a problem solver instead of true AGI. Someone could pose a task in scenario 1: earn me a buck. A buck would be earned and people would lose jobs. Another task in scenario 2 would be: earn me a decent buck. There would be less bucks, but no one would lose a job.

Of course that true artificial intelligence would reject scenario 1, but I'm afraid that scenario 1 is also possible. I've learned with computers that nothing is impossible to program. One could program even criminal activities. And what really bothers me are activities that are not labeled as criminal activities, but stand in a way of thrive of humanity.

Imagine this task: make me a car out of ingredients from the nature. A robot would go to a mountain, mine some ores, then use some tools from a garage and ta-daaa, there is a car in a matter of days. Now comes the tricky part: a car would be sold for 100 bucks. And people lose jobs. You just have to own a robot, you don't have to spend one tiny dine, and you get valuable items for dispatching over the world.

Automated task solver could be a great thing, but our society should change from inside if we want everyone to thrive. By the current arrangement, a few guys would be rich, and millions would be poor. And a poor cannot afford medicines or anything else needed for a decent life.

Sure, we could build completely ethical AGI based on the problem solver, that carefully picks tasks that would or would not do for us. But I guarantee, a lot of people would abuse the bear problem solver, causing the world crisis.

The real question is right that one from the beginning: if it is programmed nowadays, the human crisis is inevitable, but are there some obligations we have regarding to a small number of unlucky humans, or a greater number of other unlucky living beings (holocaust of nowadays that no one talks about)? If everyone would be ok right now, I would say that we can wait a few decades or centuries (waiting for the basic income sounds right), but there are beings in the real pain right now on this planet. Should we reach for them and help them? I'm sure that things would turn out right, after the first stress, but I also believe we could avoid that first stress by better arranging our society first.

Right now I think that it could be a good idea to offer a partial solution by which someone, in more or less distant future, could base her/his AGI project, when the things start to get acceptable shape. The presence would not be compromised, and the future would be helped.

But, there would be also a little monster inside us, crying out: someone is being hurt right now and no one helps her/him. And that part breaks my heart.

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8pla.net

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Re: Is it worth of trouble?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2016, 04:09:12 pm »
It has been widely reported in the news.  And, according to the presidential debates, it is legal. The USA is affected by a huge foreign workforce shipped in and bonded to corporations. Leaving employment is not allowed.  Salary negotiation is eliminated. Below market wages only provide for the most crowded living quarters to sleep in. 

How can an AGI (which isn't even human) compete with this?
My Very Enormous Monster Just Stopped Using Nine

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Don Patrick

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Re: Is it worth of trouble?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2016, 06:57:53 pm »
Someone, somewhere is paying for it.
That would be the robots. That's the whole idea. But don't worry, I don't actually care how America does things.
CO2 retains heat. More CO2 in the air = hotter climate.

 


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