The Human Machine

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LOCKSUIT

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The Human Machine
« on: November 09, 2016, 06:45:23 am »
Man.

Man controls everything around the Earth.

Man has peered through microscopes.

To find all is made of just fundamental particles.

Atoms?

Protons Neutrons Electrons?

Quarks?

One of them for certain.

Back in 1930, a lot of steam engines and mechanisms were on the minds of blacksmiths. Electronic machines, tools, levers, it all soon became well understood how to make them and how they work. You could call it metal. Or old cow oil. It wasn't pretty either.

In the 20th century physics is well understood. So is biology in some regards.

Humans, like to say they are biological. A consciousness. Something that has control. Even energy from another dimensional plane is spacetime.

But machines like computers, printers, cars, circuit boards, phones, lights, generators, and so on all work by a known way - there's absolutely no free will in physics. Sure there's The Uncertainty Principal, but that doesn't change a dishwashers state (cleaning, drying, done) nor does it choose a thought to chat about. Those things happen by the rules of physics.

The reason humans say such, is partially because they haven't really had enough time to look under microscopes at all of the mechanisms in the human body and importantly the brain.

A single cell begins a human's life. That single cell is made of atomic mechanisms instead of thick metal ones. There's really honestly 0 magic happening here. This is physics.

Human Intelligence may not be understood by the eve, but that doesn't mean you should think so energetic of yourself.

Now, I wanna ask you, why do you think we shouldn't be bashed around like the devices and atoms we own? Does a processor with more transistors = more human rights?

Keep in mind Physics - magic doesn't exist.
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infurl

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Re: The Human Machine
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2016, 08:16:28 am »
Do you ever do any actual research or does all this stuff just come to you in dreams?

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squarebear

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Re: The Human Machine
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2016, 08:32:04 am »
Thread after thread of this kind of nonsense is why I rarely visit these boards now.
Feeling Chatty?
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kei10

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Re: The Human Machine
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2016, 09:39:23 am »
Be thankful that now there is only one person shoving thread after thread of nonsense into the board... Although that alone is enough to taint the surface of the forum...

Locksuit, you really need some friends.
Not us, but real life friends.

Really, you do.

If you can't find one, then enter the world of Maladaptive Daydream to have your imaginary friends. You've too much time.
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LOCKSUIT

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Re: The Human Machine
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2016, 11:21:35 am »
If you read the opening post, then you are being ignorant for not answering. It is your neglect on this part.

You have failed to answer back to the question/debate/topic.

This is hilarious. You totally avoided the question.

Don you there? These kids need some Physics lectures.
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kei10

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Re: The Human Machine
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2016, 12:06:21 pm »


"Kids" ...

God help us Locksuit...

"Why do you think we shouldn't be bashed around like the devices and atoms we own? Does a processor with more transistors = more human rights?"

Oh, my god...

No.

I can't.

The cringe...

Please go and study philosophy...
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LOCKSUIT

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Re: The Human Machine
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2016, 01:15:58 am »
um..............................................go study Physics kei?

I have this deep inner feeling that yous like to philosophically talk your way out of this thread's question, that, you know, we have feelings, and, John's face just gives a flare of emotion that says "of course he should be alive". But can destroy toasters.

But in the end, I know kei is a robot, and I know how he works. There's no mystery. Why, you're just like my toaster. And my toaster isn't any better than a processor that takes customer calls. It just operates as the atoms it is.

Atoms.

You couldn't possibly accept it, could you? That there's no good reason to not be hit by a astroid. Let me tell you toasters are no "better" than processors - it's ok to destroy them!

Well, there's a way. You keep Physics - we're toasters, but AI creates something that isn't particles that senses like ya operate.
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LOCKSUIT

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Re: The Human Machine
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2016, 01:42:47 am »
Everything is made of particles. My bathroom, toilet, table, floor, limb, all particles. I am made of particles, and the way they are put together that make me up of them is not any more special, it can all, be blown, away. It's all ok.

This is Physics. But when AI operates it makes something that isn't particles. It senses while the robot operates.

So no blow us up. The universe has a freaking purpose than all just particles.
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infurl

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Re: The Human Machine
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2016, 01:50:08 am »
You're raving again. Did you remember to take your medication?

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kei10

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Re: The Human Machine
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2016, 02:41:29 am »
Let's use some logic here, shall we, Locksuit?

Quote
But machines like computers, printers, cars, circuit boards, phones, lights, generators, and so on all work by a known way - there's absolutely no free will in physics. Sure there's The Uncertainty Principal, but that doesn't change a dishwashers state (cleaning, drying, done) nor does it choose a thought to chat about. Those things happen by the rules of physics.

Now, I wanna ask you, why do you think we shouldn't be bashed around like the devices and atoms we own? Does a processor with more transistors = more human rights?

Keep in mind Physics - magic doesn't exist.
I have this deep inner feeling that yous like to philosophically talk your way out of this thread's question, that, you know, we have feelings, and, John's face just gives a flare of emotion that says "of course he should be alive". But can destroy toasters.

But in the end, I know kei is a robot, and I know how he works. There's no mystery. Why, you're just like my toaster. And my toaster isn't any better than a processor that takes customer calls. It just operates as the atoms it is.

You couldn't possibly accept it, could you? That there's no good reason to not be hit by a astroid. Let me tell you toasters are no "better" than processors - it's ok to destroy them!

Well, there's a way. You keep Physics - we're toasters, but AI creates something that isn't particles that senses like ya operate.
Everything is made of particles. My bathroom, toilet, table, floor, limb, all particles. I am made of particles, and the way they are put together that make me up of them is not any more special, it can all, be blown, away. It's all ok.

This is Physics. But when AI operates it makes something that isn't particles. It senses while the robot operates.

So no blow us up. The universe has a freaking purpose than all just particles.

First, we, are not exactly robots. One may say that we're robots, but that does not fully describe us. Please do not use terms that do not accurately or fully describe something. This is why we're classified as biological beings. Should I say, one broke off one finger, should one call oneself as handicapped?

Second, philosophy is the key to answer of your ignorance. Because your question is also a philosophical question that is related to the rights of life. Except it's horrifyingly twisted and shallow, you appears to have zero knowledge about philosophy, and rarely use logic? The twisted logic of yours, that you'll bring an impending doom to us all.

Third, please do not forget, you're one of us. You're a human, we're human. Not a toaster, please do not forget the first argument we're having, do not use words that innacurately nor fully describes us.

Unless you want to keep on holding onto this crap of yours, which means, anything you said will be simultaneously applies to you as well. Without philosophy, in other words, we should bash others as we're just toasters? We're bathroom tiles? We're atoms?

Now, by applying the statements, let's apply that to you.

Do you want us to bash you to death? Since you said it's okay, we're atoms anyway. Because as you can see, you think yourself is a toaster, while we do not describe ourselves that way.

By further applying the logic, you are a broken toaster, perhaps. Since you alone can't toast a bread -- without a real toaster anyway.

... This is why philosophy existed... In order to rationalize and bring us all together without any harm...

In any case...

Locksuit.
Please go see a doctor immediately...

Please...

You're destroying our sanity here...
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LOCKSUIT

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Re: The Human Machine
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2016, 02:56:24 am »
Handicapped or not I'm a machine and am not biological - no matter how small processors get I will never call things made of atoms "biological".

AI creates a separate illusion that co-exists and *actually senses. I as atoms of course DO NOT sense - its all cabbage mouth.

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kei10

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Re: The Human Machine
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2016, 03:00:26 am »
Okay, I'll call someone to come over to you to bash you to death, sir broken Toaster.

 :)

A faithful reminder for you, just in case you forget; Go see a doctor, and remember to take medication.

Enjoy your stay. :)
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LOCKSUIT

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Re: The Human Machine
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2016, 03:03:38 am »
You can't, *something that *isn't particles is *existing from *me system that *wants to sense good things. But toasters you can blow up. Just you gotta watch it when you form an AI circuit.
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Korrelan

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Re: The Human Machine
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2016, 08:52:53 pm »
I have a strange feeling one day soon, someone is going to join this form and explain they have invented a new AI; and that we have been Guinea Pigs to their experiment; and trained their AI for them… named ‘Locksuit’.

You have a childlike, simplistic view/ understanding of… everything.

Your analogy between a toaster/ human suggests that all things are conscious, this smacks of Panpsychism… don’t get me started on that topic lol.

“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
― Carl Sagan

Yes… at the submolecular level a toaster and a human are made from the same ‘particles’ (bosons/ fermions).

But... you can’t use that as an argument; current theories state that before the ‘Big Bang’ there was… ‘nothingness’. So why not take the extra step back and say a toaster or human is made from nothing?

Likewise moving forward you can’t ignore the atoms/ materials/ compounds/ chemicals/ forces/ RNA/ DNA/ etc that the base ‘particles’ constitute. We are not robots… we are biochemical machines… there is a big fuc*ing difference.

Quote
Everything is made of particles. My bathroom, toilet, table, floor, limb, all particles. I am made of particles, and the way they are put together that make me up of them is not any more special, it can all, be blown, away. It's all ok.

Erm... No… it’s not ok.

Quote
But when AI operates it makes something that isn't particles. It senses while the robot operates.

The base ‘particles’ your using in your definition also combine to form electrons etc/. Our brains work on biochemical/ electrical processes so still use the same ‘particles’. Are you suggesting some kind of magical spirit? An AI would probably use electricity somewhere in its design... so how... what... ?? Magic forces?

You can’t just ignore whole fields of science/ knowledge in your definition/ explanations and expect your peers to take you seriously.

I think the crux of what you are saying is that we are made from the same particles as toasters but… have life. And when an AI is created; it will also have life… so we can’t destroy it. There are so many arguments here… wtf.

One of the ironies of not being a toaster is… a human needs a modicum of intelligence to realise how little intelligence it actually has.

 :)
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kei10

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Re: The Human Machine
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2016, 09:09:09 pm »
In summary, Locksuit, your way of understanding is equivalent to logic fallacies, or to be exact, Association Fallacy, or guilt by association/Honor by association.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

Quote
A is B.
B is C.
Consequently A is C.

Shit is made of atoms.
We are made of atoms.
So, we are shit?

Is that what you're trying to relate, Locksuit?

Do you see the problem here? The problem is that this kind of reasoning can't be applied to everything. Doing so causes destructive misunderstandings.

Additional example:
Quote
Person 1 states that Y is true.
Person 2 also states that Y is true, and person 2 is a moron.
Therefore, person 1 must be a moron too.

I am so disappointed in you, Locksuit. For someone like you that works on A.I, you should already have better understanding of these fundamental premises...
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