the path to agi, and the "motivator"

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MagnusWootton

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the path to agi, and the "motivator"
« on: April 22, 2022, 05:34:57 pm »
Creatures in life avoid pain, and go for pleasure.

As a robot made of plastic, metal and motors and running on a battery,    pain could just be damage detectors, and the pleasure could be it charging its battery,   and you just leave the rest to an exponential compute.

The problem with that  (Apart from the exponential compute.) is its an unsafe robot.    So if someone works out how to make a quantum computer, they could just rush into this with this simple motivation and see what happens.

Its not known, if the robot will develop a behaviour pattern by guessing where the positive goal is,  and everytime it finds out its not true, it will put it off to somewhere else it doesnt know yet that could possibly have this positive goal in it.    (I call that fantasizing.)   So if the robot does this fantasization then it will always be trying something new to get this goal,   but the problem is what it will do to get it.

So now I'm older,  If I ever work out how to do an exponential compute,  I'm not going to run this,  I'lll do something safer, with more guarding and possibly a harder to make motivation system using symbolic logic to guard it from doing haneous things on the way to gaining MORE BATTERY POWER.

Pleasure and pain is not what motivates animals in real life, and evolution is false.
If you make a robot like this youll see that its an evil creation, and its unnatural just as that, so if u end up being able to make some quantum computer, put a bit more effort in goaling it properly, even if it takes more time to do it,  its worth it,  save alot of harm it will cause.

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chattable

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Re: the path to agi, and the "motivator"
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2022, 11:17:57 am »
what motivates animals?

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MagnusWootton

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Re: the path to agi, and the "motivator"
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2022, 01:08:29 pm »
you dont agree with me?      Then normal way of explaining life in a superficial way is to think everything is driven to reproduce itself to survive, and we are attracting to pleasure and repulsed from pain.   But I'm just saying it isnt true.   theres more to it than that, otheriwse we would be quite mad evil creatures, and it wouldnt work.  who knows what the truth is. could be even scarier, best not make any presumptious decisions about it.

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ivan.moony

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Re: the path to agi, and the "motivator"
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2022, 01:46:06 pm »
I think it's about imitating what we adore, with a bit help of pleasure/pain experienced though unexplained medium.

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chattable

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Re: the path to agi, and the "motivator"
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2022, 06:21:56 pm »
people eat because they need to and also for pleasure.
people eat because they don't want to experience something that is not pleasurable.

people drink because they need to
and also for pleasure.
people drink because they don't want to experience something that is not pleasurable.



people work because they need to and also for pleasure.
have you heard of workaholics.
people work to obtain more pleasure.

people work because they don't want to experience something that is not pleasurable.

that is my take on it.
 

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HS

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Re: the path to agi, and the "motivator"
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2022, 07:28:55 pm »
A goal such as "Maximize net positive experience and minimize net negative experience" where a portion of an AI's "experience"- theoretical or not, was equivalent to the perceived/inferred experience of others, might be a good basis for a motivational structure which is beneficial to both self and others. Though even if the motivation is good, incomplete knowledge might still lead to bad solutions.

Maybe if an AI included uncertainty in its reasoning, then various states of incomplete knowledge could be more of an inconvenience than a danger. Basically, it seems that to create the best net experience, motivation needs a balance of self-interest and empathy, while intelligence needs to consider both knowledge and ignorance.

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chattable

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Re: the path to agi, and the "motivator"
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2022, 04:49:42 am »
A goal such as "Maximize net positive experience and minimize net negative experience" where a portion of an AI's "experience"- theoretical or not, was equivalent to the perceived/inferred experience of others, might be a good basis for a motivational structure which is beneficial to both self and others. Though even if the motivation is good, incomplete knowledge might still lead to bad solutions.

Maybe if an AI included uncertainty in its reasoning, then various states of incomplete knowledge could be more of an inconvenience than a danger. Basically, it seems that to create the best net experience, motivation needs a balance of self-interest and empathy, while intelligence needs to consider both knowledge and ignorance.
what are you saying?
are you saying have the agi ask if what it is doing is right or not.
then have the ai stop if the person says no.
or have the ai continue if the person says yes.
i think people should be able to ask the agi to stop anytime in the process of finishing it's goal.

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infurl

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Re: the path to agi, and the "motivator"
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2022, 04:57:41 am »
what are you saying?

He is saying that the AI should be altruistic in nature. It should look beyond its own needs for motivation. In the long run altruism is a much better strategy for survival than greed. There are many animal species that exhibit altruism too. It is only some humans that seem to be too stupid to understand its value.

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chattable

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Re: the path to agi, and the "motivator"
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2022, 10:19:58 am »
what are you saying?

He is saying that the AI should be altruistic in nature. It should look beyond its own needs for motivation. In the long run altruism is a much better strategy for survival than greed. There are many animal species that exhibit altruism too. It is only some humans that seem to be too stupid to understand its value.
i have never heard of the word altruism. :o

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MagnusWootton

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Re: the path to agi, and the "motivator"
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2022, 03:32:58 pm »
So maybe its just the case, that intelligence itself causes evil... i was thinking the ai had some defecit,  but maybe intelligence itself is a deficit itself.
And its actually functioning properly!!!   

HS said it was a lack of knowledge, that causes it to happen.  And what I imagine is similar, if it sees the wrong order of events, then youll get the bad behaviour, and without more artificial barring then its completely anavoidable maybe!

The "Dream system" Im thinking of, actually doesnt even have a synapse development, its just the full product of everything up to now, but even then, the things that are in there, and the things that arent in there, will produce this halfway behaviour, which is very unproductive.