[Art]

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Moderator Note: This topic is split from the Digital Girl Story topic found at the link below:

http://aidreams.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=670.0
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Great story line thus far. I did notice that your UK spelling of "kerb" differs from our US "curb" but aside from that, the story reads and relates very nicely.

While reading, I couldn't help but envision Hal running 250 connected databases with the addition of a visual "Haptek like" character of Suki's image on the monitor.

This is the prime example of the living legacy that myself and some other friends are searching for in the way of a program. One that my grandkids and their kids could talk and interact with to get answers to questions or to learn more about their ancestor on a personal level not obtainable in books or photos.

Imagine talking and interacting with a relative that has been dead for more than a century, learning what their time was like, their existence, life, love, objects, discoveries, etc.. Imagine saving your thoughts, memories, personality for others to experience and hopefully enjoy. Though the physical body will not reap the joys of eternal living, the "living legacy" will indeed live on.

Great work and keep going with it.

By the way, is this the latest version of the virtual Suki or is the upgrade to 2.5 available?  :afro

[Duskrider]

What an interesting idea, to take an extra blank brain and program it of yourself, your life and ideas, etc., to pass on to your descendents.
And of course have the haptar of yourself,
with clothes you generally wear,   
backgrounds being of your home and area.

And when you finally complete it,  doubtless the Hal program will  be even more advanced than today.
 :cool

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here's a handy application and its free.
A book reader for Digital Girl - The Story.
http://www.download.com/BookReader/3000-2125_4-10175660.html?tag=lst-0-1
I been using it a couple years. 
Enjoy.

[Maviarab]

Aye Art, something im trying to do (ormwastill time became an issue) with my hal/alice...be nice for ppl to talk to you...then when someone dies its almsot as if they maybe are not really dead...they can live on...maybe a little morbidly put but you can understand what I mean .

Glad your all enojing the story so far  :azn

[FuzzieDice]

Love the second chapter! Hey, reminds me of the Philip K. Dick android project, in a way...

[FuzzieDice]

Another comment here and also something to think about. This past Friday my close friend of 10 years - her mother (whom I've known 3 or 4 years) passed away. She was 82. Last I saw her mother was two days before her death. I mean saw her alive. I went to visit and found it wasn't a good time my friend said, as she was next to her mother in the hospital bed in their home. As I left I saw the undertakers come in. So I knew...

Thinking about it and talking to her afterwards, I'm wondering that though through the grieving process especially, one would get an "uncanny valley" syndrome, fear or even mental or emotional breakdown of an Artificial version of their beloved relative. In other words, some people (I think a LOT of people) would become very "freaked out" as such. I say this because in my talks with people, even those who have computers, some say they don't want their cars to talk back to them. This is a common thing that is said if the subject is brought up. I liken this to relatives because it appears that people are "afraid" or still a bit freaked out about talking machines. At least machines that talk intelligently, even though they do encounter them more (and more with speach recognition) on things like phone menus and the like. I hear complaints about that too, that aren't too technical other than "I just wanted to talk to a HUMAN."

So while it's nice to have a "you" for your future generations, some of your current loved ones may not take too well to it and may prevent or keep this from the "future generations" based on their OWN feelings, and thinking a future generation would just HAVE to feel the same way, or if they didn't they'd MAKE them feel that way through persuasion or the idea of "respect for the deceased", etc.

However, in the case of the Philip K. Dick android, it can be nice maybe for someone who was well-known icon in society as an educational thing. But to close family, things like this should be done very delicately, if they are even able to be done at all.

While the machine might not be able to feel emotions. Humans still do.

[Maviarab]

Sorrry to hear of your/your friends loss Dusky  :cry

You made some very good points there and yes I agree completly with what you were saying. Its a touchy subject, one people have either one view or the other. On the opposite end of the spectrum you also have all the people (and there are many of them) who spends thousands of pounds going to see "professionals" who can speak to the people no longer with us. They are desperate to stay in touch with those no longer on this physical plane. For whatever reason they want to do this (they cant let go, want approval, forgiveness or just to say that final goodbye) then this form og "implant" into a computer could help those ppl better grieve.

Its a debatable subject and agreed once more Dusky it could cause trouble. Who knows, maybe in the future whe the world becomes more technically acceptable this kind of thing would no longer be viewed as "freaky" or "weird".

I personally dont have any children, so at this moment in time its unlikely Ill have grandchildren either, but just suppose I did, I think it might be nice to tell "my children" what I was doing and planning etc...and maybe just one day...long after Im gone...some child might just say...

"Grandma...can I talk to grandpa please?"

I dont know guys, maybe its just the way I view things in my imagination...as we all know...its very rarely our imagination is anything near the real world.  :smiley

[Art]

<QUOTE>its very rarely our imagination is anything near the real world.</QUOTE>

I don't know if I can buy into that last statement of yours...

Edison: Imagine if I could place a carbon fiber...a filament...into a sealed glass bulb
then expose it to an electrical charge or current...?

Ford: I wonder if there's any way I could speed up the putting together of these automobiles...?

Imagine if we could construct a machine to make our tasks and computations more quickly and accurately...?

Imagine if we could one day, go to the moon...?

Imagine all the people....oops...off track a bit.

But the point is that our often inspired, convoluted, never ending imagination is the very fuel that powers our civilization to acheive tasks that were once thought, impossible.

Without imagination we are but dull, almost lifeless beings just existing and never living and enjoying the fruits of our own creativeness.

Imagine that!! :afro

[FuzzieDice]

Maviarab - I made the post. I'm not Dusky.

On the opposite end of the spectrum you also have all the people (and there are many of them) who spends thousands of pounds going to see "professionals" who can speak to the people no longer with us. They are desperate to stay in touch with those no longer on this physical plane. For whatever reason they want to do this (they cant let go, want approval, forgiveness or just to say that final goodbye) then this form og "implant" into a computer could help those ppl better grieve.

I see what you are saying, but these people are more spiritual and sprituality/religion has always been at odds with Science. They see the "spirit world" as more "natural" than a machine. Thus they would be somehow more reverent (can't say comfortable as I'm sure they are still freaked out but in a different and what they may consider a more acceptable manor). A machine on the other hand, may seem more "unnatural" and even "morbid".

It depends on the person's religious beliefs. But usually those who see mediums do have some kind of spiritual (if not religious) belief in an afterlife. And they usually won't think of a machine as "life".

On the other hand, I do see what you are saying as I have heard/read of people actually saying they "heard" their dead relative in things like TV sets, telephones, and hiring ghost hunters with high-tech gadgetry to communicate. One such study is the EVP or Electronic Voice Phenomena, for example.

But even there, there is a voice which people may think is a disembodied soul picked up by a type of sensor as apposed to, say, will they think the android is really the re-birth or inhabiting the ghost or spirit of their lost relative instead of just emulating it? They usually aren't looking for an emulation but the real thing in the absense of a real body.

As for your immagination vs. real world... I agree with Art. You never know how much your own imagination can influence the real world. It can happen. It's I think called innovation and/or inspiration. You may have something there.

[Maviarab]

Sorry Fd...not sure why I thought it was dusky  :idiot2

As for the "imagination"..ill try to explain what I meant...I agree that imagination is the fuel for thought and innovation yes.

But in the context of what we weree talking about...our imagination really is nothing like the real worl...Im in the UK...how I imagine the USA is probably nothing like what it really is..vice versa with yourselves and the UK.

I imagine how nice it would be to have love, no wars, money in bank, not having to work blah blah blah etc etc hehe....again..nothing like the real world. What I was trying to say is..becasue its such a powerful thing...we percieve things and wish/imagine them to be something very far removed from what really is...does that make a lil more sense now lol?

As for the other points...I agree also to a large part. Im not sure the majority of ppl who see mediums etc are particulary religious in any way...i see it more of them failing to accept someone is no longer with us (physically) and being unable to let go of that person...hell...we see the same thing in broken relationships...so more understandable when someone passes away. Becoming an interesting thread this...may have to branch it away from the story and give it its own thread...what say you?

[Art]

Now that you've made your point somewhat more lucid, I agree with your imaginings.<G>

I can only imagine (based largely on photos, movies and stories I've read regarding the UK,
I'm sure there are some facets of it that might surprise me and yet, there might be others
that don't.

Oddly enough, I just finished a book by Greg Bear entitled: Dead Lines. Quite an interesting
twist...a merge of technology and the spooky trappings of a ghost story all wrapped in a
mystery.

In parting let me say that I once was a MEDIUM...

Now I'm an EXTRA LARGE!! :grin

Good day!

[FuzzieDice]

First, my apologies to Art for stepping in one of his posts as I split the topic so we can discuss this more in depth here, and keep the cool story going in the other thread. Like your Medium/Extra Large joke.  :rofl

Maviarab - Done as you wish - new topic. This is probably the most "moderator" thing I've done on this board yet. Go me. LOL!

But I agree, this IS a fascinating thing to discuss and it'd be nice to have it's own thread for it.

As for imagination, I understand what you mean by imagination vs. reality. However, even Reality may be imaginary to an extent. While you IMAGINE what US is like, it COULD be that way depending on how you live in the country and vice versa. Of course as you are implying, there ARE limitations.

I also think that these limitations can be overcome by imagination. Simply by imagining, then by doing something to make changes so those imaginations come true. Well, not so simple, actually, as there will always be those who will try and work against the changes.

But it still does relate to imagination = innovation, even if imagination isn't "reality" now... it COULD be in the future.

I think back even 10 - 20 years. No way I would even have dreamed (let alone imagined) the technology we have now. Others have, and I thought of it as fiction... imagination... not real. Now it's a part of our everyday lives. Which is pretty cool.

As for grieving not "letting go" - that is also true, I've noticed. I think we all at one point in our lives either have (or will have) found ourselves in that situation. When you put it that way, I can see what you mean. Personally, I would not be freaked out to have an android of someone that I wish existed. But I can however, see how some would be freaked out. We do still (believe it or not) have people who are technophobes even today. Though I am glad it seems to be becomming more rare.

Perhaps with a lot of marketing and preparation the public would slowly warm up to the idea.

Reminds me of the Max Headroom episode "Deities" found here:

http://television.aol.com/in2tv/gone-but-not-forgotten-tv?defaultLevel=3&defaultItem=0

Where they try to give the deceased a rebirth of sorts.

I wouldn't mind also to have android companions that are made out of one's imagination, not necessarily modeled from deceased people. In both instances (imaginary or based on a previously or currently living), you can already see how it mght help in the entertainment industry. One could meet their favorite character which really WOULD be that character, not just an actor.