[tessawaldock]

Hello All,

I hope this is the right place to post a topic like this.

It'd be of great use for my dissertation if I could get some of your expert opinions on robots that are designed to look like humans. I have attached images of android robots that have been developed. I'd appreciate if you could let me know your opinions on the following:

What are your initial thoughts on their appearance, how do they make you feel?

Are these robots how you imagine a robot to look like, if no, how do you imagine robots to look?

Do you think designing the appearance of robots on real humans is a good thing?

Do you feel threatened by these robots in terms of their human appearance?

Do these type of robots scare you?

Any sort of discussion around this topic will be useful, so don't feel pressured into strictly answering the questions I have asked.

Thank you in advance!

[ranch vermin]

Theyve had realistic wax dummies for centuries,  so of course people could have always used one for a robot body.
I think that they are jumping the gun a little, and should concentrate more on working on real ai,  that would suit a body like this.

[ivan.moony]

Wikipedia says:

In aesthetics, the uncanny valley is a hypothesized relationship between the degree of an object's resemblance to a human being and the emotional response to such an object. The concept of the uncanny valley suggests that humanoid objects which appear almost, but not exactly, like real human beings elicit uncanny, or strangely familiar, feelings of eeriness and revulsion in observers.Valley denotes a dip in the human observer's affinity for the replica, a relation that otherwise increases with the replica's human likeness.

I think that a humanoid body is a stone of stumble for AI, as its real value would be intelligence. Like in rock-paper-scissors game, paper beats rock. But scissors shouldn't be an option for an AI.

[WriterOfMinds]

All the examples you've given could probably trick me into thinking they were photographs of humans at first glance, IF I just looked at their faces.  The last two in particular are very good -- they even seem to have realistic skin texture, so they don't look like plastic.  The hands on the first robot look weird -- too wrinkly and bendy.

The only disturbing or "uncanny valley" feeling I get is from the ways in which the second two are incomplete or taken apart.  The back-side photo of the second one is the worst, I think, because the exposed edges of the plastic/foam look like ripped skin.  None of them frighten me.

But as noted by Ranch, we've had realistic dummies for a while.  For a real judgment of how authentic and comfortable these robots are, I'd need videos of their movements.  Do they continue to look human when speaking and attempting facial expressions?

I guess I'm ambivalent about whether robots mimic human appearance or not.  I like robots with all varieties of bodies.  But if people want to make them as much like us as they can, there's nothing *wrong* with that ... though there are probably avenues of work/research with more value than mere aesthetics.

[Art]

@ tessawaldock,

They make me feel good because their presence is a form of flattery toward their clone or creator.

To me, the word, Robot, has a mechanical, clunky feel to it whereas Humanoid, Android, Synth, etc., sound more like an intelligent, functioning, animatronic, bi-pedal being.

Yes

No

Not unless they actually get to the point of being indistinguishable from humans and their interaction begins to interfere or not become productive with nor for humans.

Overall, it is difficult to comment on that which we have yet to experience. How we, as a people and as a society react, remains to be seen with regard to acceptance, trust, and relationships.

[ranch vermin]

having a yes no competition for the turing test could be cool maybe.   make it a bit easier for the developers?

[Korrelan]

Hi and welcome Tessa

Whilst I appreciate the work/ animatronics, etc that goes into these ‘androids’ I’ve never quite seen the point. 

Humans are so finely tuned to recognise subtle nuances/ emotional expressions in other humans faces during conversation that the slightest deviation/ servo flicker can be quite disconcerting lol.  The more realistic an ‘androids’ face is, the worse the effect is, an eye movement is slightly off, the skin creases weirdly, the mouth takes the wrong shape to pronunciate a phoneme, etc.  Even with harmonic drives they still tend to cross into the ‘uncanny valley’ as soon as they move.

I personally think that machines should just look like what they are; I’ve not yet seen a really good design for the face of an AI.  For social AI’s we just need an aesthetically pleasing, inoffensive face that has adequate emotional expression to convey internal thoughts/ emotions.  We need some talented artists to apply them selves lol, also a universal method of identification is required, equivalent to human facial features.

I believe this is a recent best attempt, when I watch this my attention is drawn to the imperfections, which instantly ruins the illusion. 



The emotion expression on Leonardo seems much more believable because I have no reference to compare it to.



I’m not saying that an AGI should have the face of teddy bear but you get my gist. 

I feel the designers of these ‘puppets’ are just cashing in on the hype that’s surrounded AI over the past few years, I don’t blame them, we all need funding but as WriterOfMinds/ Ranch have pointed out, the resources could have been made better use of.

 

[8pla.net]

Here is an one I made, on a budget, so I could practice programming it to speak.



I guess I saved about a hundred grand, compared to the others featured on this thread.   

Don't let the inexpensiveness fool you, there is some good science there I think, though it could use some fine tuning.

I've been published in a dissertation,  (actually a thesis for the Doctor of Philosophy degree), out of University of the Arts London.

( Not at all with this robot head in a bottle, but it was related to other work I did with Artificial Intelligence. )

[ranch vermin]

did u actually make that or was it a salvage?   

I have a next door neighbour that has lots of skeletons and zombies, i planned on wiring one up - but i still havent even got my oscillator working yet...

[tessawaldock]

@ tessawaldock,

They make me feel good because their presence is a form of flattery toward their clone or creator.

To me, the word, Robot, has a mechanical, clunky feel to it whereas Humanoid, Android, Synth, etc., sound more like an intelligent, functioning, animatronic, bi-pedal being.

Yes

No

Not unless they actually get to the point of being indistinguishable from humans and their interaction begins to interfere or not become productive with nor for humans.

Overall, it is difficult to comment on that which we have yet to experience. How we, as a people and as a society react, remains to be seen with regard to acceptance, trust, and relationships.

Thanks Art, I agree it is hard to predict how society will cope with android robots of this type. However, do you possibly think it would take a while for people to accept, but once in society eventually people will come to accept it, like with how some new technology is accepted?

[tessawaldock]

Hi and welcome Tessa

Whilst I appreciate the work/ animatronics, etc that goes into these ‘androids’ I’ve never quite seen the point. 

Humans are so finely tuned to recognise subtle nuances/ emotional expressions in other humans faces during conversation that the slightest deviation/ servo flicker can be quite disconcerting lol.  The more realistic an ‘androids’ face is, the worse the effect is, an eye movement is slightly off, the skin creases weirdly, the mouth takes the wrong shape to pronunciate a phoneme, etc.  Even with harmonic drives they still tend to cross into the ‘uncanny valley’ as soon as they move.

I personally think that machines should just look like what they are; I’ve not yet seen a really good design for the face of an AI.  For social AI’s we just need an aesthetically pleasing, inoffensive face that has adequate emotional expression to convey internal thoughts/ emotions.  We need some talented artists to apply them selves lol, also a universal method of identification is required, equivalent to human facial features.

I believe this is a recent best attempt, when I watch this my attention is drawn to the imperfections, which instantly ruins the illusion. 



The emotion expression on Leonardo seems much more believable because I have no reference to compare it to.



I’m not saying that an AGI should have the face of teddy bear but you get my gist. 

I feel the designers of these ‘puppets’ are just cashing in on the hype that’s surrounded AI over the past few years, I don’t blame them, we all need funding but as WriterOfMinds/ Ranch have pointed out, the resources could have been made better use of.

 

Thanks for your response 

This universal method of identification is a really good point to make. Do you think social robots should look more animalistic than human, like Leonardo? From the research i’ve read, it states that society will struggle to accept social robots that look too similar to humans. So instead, there should be distinct differences between androids and humans to avoid any damage that it could cause to humans. Do you agree with this?

[ranch vermin]

one reason-> Imagine accidentally running over a robot and crashing your car hurting yourself trying to avoid it, because u couldnt tell it was one,  u thought it was a person.

[Art]

@ tessawaldock,

They make me feel good because their presence is a form of flattery toward their clone or creator.

To me, the word, Robot, has a mechanical, clunky feel to it whereas Humanoid, Android, Synth, etc., sound more like an intelligent, functioning, animatronic, bi-pedal being.

Yes

No

Not unless they actually get to the point of being indistinguishable from humans and their interaction begins to interfere or not become productive with nor for humans.

Overall, it is difficult to comment on that which we have yet to experience. How we, as a people and as a society react, remains to be seen with regard to acceptance, trust, and relationships.

Thanks Art, I agree it is hard to predict how society will cope with android robots of this type. However, do you possibly think it would take a while for people to accept, but once in society eventually people will come to accept it, like with how some new technology is accepted?

People through the ages have been reluctant to change. Electricity, Horseless carriage (automobile), Assembly lines, Powered flight, mechanized farm equipment, vinyl records to reel-to-reel to eight-track to cassette to CD, Beta to VHS to Digital, robot welders and painters in factories...etc.

If the "powers that be" decide which direction the people need to be "led", then that is the direction we, as a society, will follow. We, the people, have very little say in the outcome of things that happens in our lives. It's coming and it might take another 50 years but it will happen.

They will get refined perhaps to a state like those Synths in HUM∀NS, that had special colored eyes so that ordinary humans could distinguish them from real people. There have been many great movies and TV series that try to promote the idea of humanoids and how useful they are going to be. They are continuing to "sell us" the idea that this will be a welcomed change, for these "beings" will have a purpose once reserved to police officers...To serve and to protect.

In case one hasn't seen the series, they should do so. It is most illustrative and informative, in a societal way.
http://www.amc.com/shows/humans/video-extras/season-02/episode-00/humans-season-2-trailer

[Korrelan]

 

[Art]

Not experiencing any of that alleged "Uncanny Valley" feeling, I did, however, feel kind of "creeped out" by looking and watching it talk, move and gyrate. I almost expected it to suddenly free itself from that pole attachment and start going after those people in the room! I think the dirty appearance and that mask made it seem more sinister.

Interesting articulation, especially of the arms and hands/fingers which at times seemed quite lifelike.