[squarebear]

But Dr Wallace didn't write my AIML files so why would I credit him?
And I really don't understand why he would include some of my work in the official ALICE sets knowing full well what the header says?

Are you sure you're not Tom Joyce in disguise?

[DemonRaven]

You know what I do not believe for one second wallace gave you permission or you would produce the email and should have included it on your aiml. So justify yourself all you want but you are doing is wrong.  AS far as me being tom i really do not care who you think i am. I am arguing about what you are doing wrong but not once did i call you a name and it shows poor debating skills for you do so.

[squarebear]

Then please tell me why he includes my AIML on the official ALICE site with things such as this as a header:

Code

<!-- Wordplay.aiml -->
<!-- Free software (c)2005 SQUAREBEAR. -->

I have no intention of posting any personal emails between myself and Dr Wallace to try and justify your nonsense.

[Freddy]

DemonRaven,

I'm afraid you are wrong. Steve has every right to put his own comments in the AIML he makes. He has worked closely with Dr Wallace, who we speak to from time to time. I think if there was a real problem Richard would have said something by now.

[Freddy]

This is going too far off topic, I am splitting this post into a new robust discussion on the copyright debate.

[DemonRaven]

I am not saying he can not put his comments in it. What i am saying is that there is no credit for the actual programming language. I totally disagree freddy. Even the creator of syn states that their coding which is actually different then aiml is based on Richards coding. In any case it is poor form to claim that someone  created the actual code which is what was implied the entire time i discussed this.

[DemonRaven]

Every good programmer out there gives credit to the original creator of the language if nothing else at least by saying this program was based on AIML or Eliza brain etc etc. IF a person wants to claim a code is theirs then they should invent a code not use one and claim they are the sole owner.Going by the arguments you are presenting i could use squares code and put my own words in it then claim it is mine as well. This is some thing i would not do.

[Freddy]

Dear DemonRaven,

My intent it just to try to clarify things. I've known Steve for probably going on ten years now - he has never claimed to be the creator of AIML - everybody in the community knows Richard (Dr Wallace) created AIML. We all respect that, it's a great thing to give to the world. Dr Wallace pops in here occasionally and over on chatbots.org where we all hang out. If he has a problem then he is being very quiet about it.

We all do our best to give credit to Dr Wallace, it's been done many times here. A lot of us love the stuff, but we in no way have disregarded the fact that he invented it.

I myself have been coding an AIML interpreter and if it ever goes public I will of course credit Dr Wallace with the creation of the original specification. We're not out to rob anyone, honestly

[DemonRaven]

I maybe new to the forums but i am not new to the community i have known him since 2002. I do not personally correspond with him but i have swapped links on a couple of occasions. I  have never seen anyone until now not give him credit in writing.

[DemonRaven]

frankly i tried to avoid this whole public arguing by not naming the person who did it. But since he outed himself then i felt a need to explain why i feel as i do.

[Don Patrick]

Lovely weather we're having.

Well split Freddy, this had nothing to do with the Athena project's concerns.
Steve, DemonRaven isn't 8pla, he's an elderly gentleman with strong moral values, reasonable under most circumstances.
DemonRaven, I appreciate your moral values, but I think you should do a little more background checking before making accusations. The deal with the Mitsuku domain has some history. At one time 8pla asked what seemed to be a theoretical question whether Steve would mind if someone registered a domain with his chatbot's name, and Steve said he would mind if no-one had asked his permission first, upon which 8pla misinterpreted that as a condition met by his asking a theoretical question, immediately registered the domain, and populated it with a resemblant chatbot. Thankfully 8pla has changed that now so no mix-ups can occur, and I'd like to leave it at that.

Now as to the copyrights of AIML files. I like copyrights and giving credit where credit is due, I frequently fend for it as you do now. However, I have never known it to be mandatory to credit one's programming language. The programmers that I see mention their programming language do so after people ask out of curiosity, or in anticipation thereof, or because of personal pride. I would dare say that if I code a website in HTML, that I should not reasonably be expected to credit Microsoft at the bottom of my website, unless in AIML's case it says something particular about that in the license.
Secondly, I've read Steve's posts for a few years. He may be in a pretty irked state right now, but I consider him a reasonable person, as I do you. In his posts he frequently promotes and credits AIML and Dr. Wallace's creations, and vice versa Dr. Wallace is quite happy to praise Steve's work publicly whenever Mitsuku wins another chatbot contest. You can rest assured that he knows Steve's files intimately.

Now here's the point that distinguishes the one from the other: Even if there were something amiss with not crediting the tools one uses, if Dr. Wallace doesn't mind, the law doesn't mind. If you feel there is something wrong, you are quite free to ask Dr. Wallace and ask if he minds.

[DemonRaven]

As far as Dr. Wallace goes he has not been real active for the last two years.

[Don Patrick]

I've seen a fair share of him on the chatbots.org forum, where Steve is also a moderator.

[squarebear]

I think Don has it. Yes I am quite angry right now after the Tom Joyce incident and I apologise if I have taken it out on you.

Dr Wallace is certainly active, as I went over to San Francisco a while back to meet up with him and we worked on a project together last year in Asia. We also worked together on getting the Pandorabot entrants ready for the Loebner Prize for the last couple of years.

You may notice that the header file is from 2005, ten years ago. I would have thought Richard would have mentioned something by now had their been a problem. You are more than welcome to use my files to base your own from. That's one of the reasons I make them publicly available, so that people can learn AIML and it gets new followers.

Like Don, I have never seen anyone seen anyone credit a programming language when they have written programs using it.

I haven't heard of SYN but I guess it's a programming language based on AIML. In that case, of course Dr Wallace should be credited. Does the inventor of SYN request that any programs created using its commands are credited to the original developer?

[squarebear]

Even the creator of syn states that their coding which is actually different then aiml is based on Richards coding.

I haven't based anything on AIML and fail to see the relevance of this comment.