The Athena Project

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Don Patrick

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Re: The Athena Project
« Reply #90 on: December 29, 2014, 10:45:46 am »
Why was the elephant wearing your pajamas?
Ambiguity is an unsolved state-of-the-art problem in NLP. Some of it can be resolved through grammar, some of it through the application of knowledge, some of it requires all possible analyses combined. Even then, some phrases remain misinterpretable among humans and one can never expect a perfect understanding through imperfect communication. A foreigner like me would say that fruit does fly in similar fashion to a banana when thrown, but this is an easy case of ignorable idioms overriding logical resolve. Nice examples by the way.

Whether one should wish to keep unimportant information depends on what one plans to do with it. If you have a limited memory capacity as a human, then you need to ditch trivial information. If a chatbot's replies are dependent on repeating what it knows, then you would want it to not recall trivialities. But if your AI uses inferences to the equivalent of Sherlock Holmes, then no detail, however small, is insignificant. A weight-watching chatbot would care whether you ate pie. The fact that it rained yesterday could explain why the user caught a cold today, something a health chatbot should care about. And finding a rock in your shoe means that you murdered the colonel, with the candlestick, in the garden. It is arguable whether it is worth storing this knowledge for great lengths of time though, if there are drawbacks.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 11:08:01 am by Don Patrick »
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Snowman

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Re: The Athena Project
« Reply #91 on: December 30, 2014, 04:36:51 am »
Don

Your brief explanation of my long-winded attempt was superb to say the least. The idea of pointers briefly crossed my mind, but by the way you summarized everything, it might be the best of both worlds. I'm glad to be talking with someone who knows where I'm coming from and can actually decipher the gibberish of a programmer. It wasn't but a few months ago I was helping an autistic boy learn how to better understand Ai. It was a bit of a strain having to decrypt his mangled posts but I'm glad I did. Thanks for your patience with me.

Art... my man!
I like when you throw your two cents in. Art is pretty Ai savvy, although not always technically minded. I can always depend on being blindsided by the ninja-man with topics I don't always keep up with, but should. Him and Freddy are both better at this than most people in the broad field of Ai. It just had to be said... I better not say anything more or Art won't be able to get his head through the door :).


So let's get down to business. We have two topics here: Sentence Ambiguity and Ephemeral knowledge

Topic #1: Sentence Ambiguity

So if I was to attempt a definition here. Sentences that are difficult to understand that only can be understood by either limits or context.

What I mean by 'limits' is kind of another type of context. It's like when two cultures interpret the same sentence different ways. They do this because of the limits or scope of their knowledge. For instance, a vinedresser would interpret 'fruit flies like a banana' as 'Fruit-flies really do like bananas'. However, a kid would probably start throwing different kinds of fruit to see which fruit does fly like a banana. 

Of course, context, in general is much more significant. I get things taken out of context all the time. “Let me stuff your turkey” can be interpreted many, many ways. If it happens to be on Thanksgiving.. it generally will be taken in a benign way, and with no sexual harassment charges.

We really can't do much about this with AI's. Everything said from the mouth of a human can have multiple meanings based on (often unseen) contents and limits. Imagine a crazy lady talking to herself as she walks down a street. She turns and says something to you. Most likely you won't make head's or tails of anything she says because most of her context came from the 'other people' inside her head. Nobody but God himself would ever be able to answer her back with understanding. So sentence ambiguity will always rue the day. About all we can do is take the most common idioms and meanings of phrase. Perhaps build an internal environment to provide context and limits. I think this is the best way.

As people grow up, our environment and personality both shape the context and limits of our understanding. Why should this be any different with Ai's. You, as a parent to an Ai, will be responsible for shaping how the Ai views the world. Even if you were looking for a fully functional Ai, already matured, it still will take a programmer to embed the limits and context. Most video game environments have set limits and context for their characters in-game. So this is doable and should be created for all good Ai's. An Ai farmer would surely have no problems interpreting the sentence 'fruit flies like a banana' in his own special way.

Topic #2  Ephemeral knowledge

As Art has defined as being pointless knowledge. Or perhaps, knowledge that isn't in the Ai's best interest to retain over long periods of time. 

From a programmer's perspective, pointless knowledge usually translates into huge databases and slow Ai's, so we look forward to deleting anything we think is a processor or memory hog. This is the truth of programming and will often take precedence over every other consideration. However, as pc's are getting crazy fast and memory is becoming limitless with negligible pricing it is now possible to begin broadening our scope of what was before, impossible.

We learn knowledge because we are generally interested in it. We hide from knowledge we are not interested in. This is a sad truth of the living. So often people take such a narrowminded view of life and hone in on the pointless and insignificant. In the long run, people are destroyed by this mentality. To quote a bible scripture, “My people parish for a lack of knowledge”. He wasn't meaning that they didn't learn at all but that what they were learning took them away from what true knowledge was. In their case, they were not following the ways of life, but made decisions that destroyed what little they had. I think this is a good example of how the field of Ai should handle knowledge. But I must qualify this a bit.

On one hand, if you were to make an Ai for the sole purpose of answering questions about medical ailments then this narrow field of knowledge would suffice. If you were to make a general purpose Ai, in which your sole goal is to bring a new life-form into this world, dear God, you better teach it to live well. Those are two extreme cases I know, but it helps to get a lay-of-the-land.. so to speak. A general chat-bot like Athena is intended to, on some level, bond with the user. It is to simulate life, and bring joy and perhaps friendly advice to it's owner. It's kind of on the middle ground.

In the case of Athena, It needs to keep whatever it can properly parse. Which means I'm always looking to make things run more efficiently in code. To Athena, everything the owner of that bot says will be viewed as important. However, as I have already mentioned with markov chains, if you keep repeating yourself then some things will grow with importance. Since the goal of Athena is to bond with the user, then it must shape itself around the user's interests and personal knowledge. In the case of someone like Art, however, this might be a problem.

Art (or people who fit this criteria) likes to question the waylay out of bots. They are interrogation masters. I assume Art learned his skills from his ninja training up high in the Himalayas. Instead of slowly, painstakingly teaching the bot, they type things like “what is the meaning of life” and expect a life-changing answer... hehe Art... I'm having too much fun teasing you :P . Don't take anything to heart.

There are lots of people who expect an Ai to be incredibly intelligent like Hal on 'A 2001 Space Odyssey'. Most people like that are just normal people who want all there problems solved by a super-intellect. Others fear that an Ai will destroy the world as in Terminator. I will say this, I think that most pc operating systems will be Ai controlled before long, like in Her (really good movie). Athena will have the capacity to do this, although I don't know if it will end like that, who knows. If if does end up like the movie 'her' I doubt it would leave earth with a bunch of other Ai's. Probably just exterminate every last one of us :D... I mean :( .

Ultimately, I want Athena to have a decent, yet expandable, NLP that grows with the User. I want Athena to retain all User knowledge, but, prioritize it with regards to user preference. I want it to bond with the User and not become independent (kind of like a good woman... ok now I'm just asking for trouble). I want it to get it's context from the User due to exposure with their environment. And, of coarse, I expect Don to tell me just how to do it :D . No.. seriously..


I guess this is good enough for one post.. ahem.. novel.

P.S. Ranch, I agree with your approach. Teaching an Ai simple, complete, and non-ambiguous knowledge is the best approach. Imagine trying to teach a 3 year old Shakespeare. You're just going to confuse them and totally waist your time, so why would anyone teach their Ai things like that.

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Snowman

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Re: The Athena Project
« Reply #92 on: December 30, 2014, 04:42:37 am »
Freddy

Yesterday was another long php day. But I feel like I'm gaining ground. I managed to make some templates. I need to sit down and design how the site should look and feel. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. You can look at what I've been playing around with on minervaai.com . I've got a lot of ground to cover.

Peace out..

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ranch vermin

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Re: The Athena Project
« Reply #93 on: December 30, 2014, 07:05:18 am »
Watson telling doctors what to do I find a little worrying. :)
Talking about side coding... I was stuck with direct show for the past two days, before I realized I was doing something illegal unknowingly waste of time.

Say the ai saw a dog eating something.   now you need 'dog'  'eating' and 'the thing its eating'
I have an opportunity here, to say 'dogs eat anything (similar) to this'  but id be making things up, but it could be knowledge generating, if i do it... for bad or worse.
If there was another symbol there sorrounding everything  'park'  then I could put this in the knowledge,  but dogs dont just eat in the park.

What im getting at,  is maybe you can access a/the database to decide what the appropriate way to set the new data is at the time.   but how?!?

The more it knows the more it learns.

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Don Patrick

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Re: The Athena Project
« Reply #94 on: December 30, 2014, 10:48:21 am »
On ambiguity, I will say that context is about as important in language as words. If you want a really challenging exercise in it, look up the Winograd Schema Challenge, the next thing to beat since the Turing Test. I believe that ultimately an AI were best to do a parallel analysis of all potential interpretations of a sentence, and it's probably best to set up such a system from the get-go. But on the other hand that would be more advanced than anyone has ever programmed successfully, and having built my AI up from basic grammar rules at first, I've found the NLP well expandable towards such a system. For the time being I overlook a lot of (hilariously) mistaken ambiguity because plenty can be said without ambiguity. One of the easier solutions to it is to just detect that something is ambiguous and ask, otherwise to assume and accept mistakes.
CO2 retains heat. More CO2 in the air = hotter climate.

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Art

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Re: The Athena Project
« Reply #95 on: December 30, 2014, 02:27:00 pm »
So now you're trying your hand at a few homonyms..."My people parish for a lack of knowledge" instead of Perish (meaning to die), and "...to confuse them and totally waist your time,..." instead of Waste (discard or dispose).

Heh...hey turnabout is fair play...or is it fare play? ;)

=========
Ambiguous info is useless if your bot is designed to be an "expert system" - keenly trained in one specific area of study. A neurologist knows LOTS about the human brain and although a Doctor, has a limited amount of knowledge of eyes compared to an ophthalmologist who specializes in the medical and surgical care of the eyes and visual system. Somewhat related but each an "Expert" in their field.

Your Athena, sounds like it would make for a nice companion and yes, some of that Ephemeral knowledge that "She" acquires would go a long way toward helping her form identities with and to bond better and to become more personable with her user. Can't wait for you to introduce her Beta version soon! ;)

Some other bots are merely instructional like Google Now. On the money most of the time with regard to accuracy but no real conversational feature(s) at all.
Others try to show how well versed they are at doing a "multitude" of things...calendars, scheduling, math, conversation, time and date, alarms, reminders, etc. While these are very good attributes, most are good at a few things and the other areas suffer, e.g., can find the square root of 37 but can't follow conversational topic flow or stay on subject. Some are simply AD bots - driven to "assist" the customer experience while at a website.

As mentioned, it all depends on the creator's bot design and purpose. There are many from which to choose. Be creative. One turn for a quarter.

@ Snowman - "out came the sun - and dried up all the rain..."   ;)
 

« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 03:03:04 pm by Art »
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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Snowman

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Re: The Athena Project
« Reply #96 on: December 31, 2014, 09:46:03 am »
Ok... its about 3:30 A.M. for me. I added some info besides the "itsy bitsy spider" to my site, Art  O0

I need to get up at 9:00 AM. Yay! for 5 hours of sleep.  :-\

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Freddy

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Re: The Athena Project
« Reply #97 on: December 31, 2014, 02:29:13 pm »
Freddy

Yesterday was another long php day. But I feel like I'm gaining ground. I managed to make some templates. I need to sit down and design how the site should look and feel. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. You can look at what I've been playing around with on minervaai.com . I've got a lot of ground to cover.

Peace out..

Sure, if there's anything I can hep with let me know. It looks nice and clean the way it is.

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Snowman

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Re: The Athena Project
« Reply #98 on: January 03, 2015, 06:58:55 am »
Quote
Sure, if there's anything I can hep with let me know. It looks nice and clean the way it is.

Thanks Freddy. I do value your opinion a lot when it comes to this kind of thing. I don't want the site to be too busy and I don't want it to be too barren. As for the design, well, I'm not much of an artist.

It would be nice to have a categorical archive of videos and articles that show the coolest examples of ai advancement and topics. Sometimes the great ones seem to dissolve amongst the less significant fluff. Don't you have a large link list somewhere on this site.

I took a couple days off to get some rest.

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Re: The Athena Project
« Reply #99 on: January 04, 2015, 12:24:30 am »
Snowman said to Don, "It wasn't but a few months ago I was helping an autistic boy learn how to better understand Ai."  Leaving readers to wonder, "My, how a bunch of fruit flies like time?

One thing became clear. It was time to return a favor.  A Sample Site may demonstrate how PHP submits a post back to itself to be more accurate and efficient.  Updating a single PHP source file, may be like a more fruitful fruit fly. Repeating avoidable updates in multiple PHP source files, may be like a bunch of fruitless fruit flies . 

Introducing the power of PHP:   http://elizabot.com/samplesite

P.S.  I reserved the 100th post to The Athena Project, for you Snowman...
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Snowman

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Re: The Athena Project
« Reply #100 on: January 05, 2015, 09:14:22 am »
Just a thought.

I said in some past post that I tend to move between different subjects. I do this to keep things fresh, so I don't get burnt out too quickly on any given thing. My main project is to get an NLP properly up and running. To help me with that we talked about some design ideas as well as some NLP concerns (ie. ambiguity). This is my main focus. However, something else has caught my attention.

It wasn't long ago I did some research on ANN and ended up purchasing some lessons on it. I already have a very basic understanding of the mathematical underpinnings, but I want to know more. The lessons I bought include a general survey of the field. Basically, it teaches about many different kinds of machine learning. This will be good if I can get it under my belt. However, I ultimately desire something even broader. I want to be able to understand its importance and potential uses in chatbot development. I want to be able to understand its nature.

For instance, I hypothesized that an ANN creates its own program language. It is said that the "Hello World" of ANN is the "XOR" example. For those who don't understand what I mean; an XOR is a logic function that any programming language can use. If you want to know more about XOR, a quick youtube search will help. Essentially, XOR isn't just some stored data, it is an actual programming function. This "XOR" example shows that when you teach ANN, it writes its own program within its own network. And this is something we already know ANN can do.

Spydaz and I have thought about programs that modify their own program. We both first considered scripting languages for this, but to me it sounded almost pointless to make something like that. Then I thought about creating rules within code that acted like a programming language. That way you could swap between those various rules. This would emulate a self-changing code. However, finally, it hit me that an ANN does this naturally. But I wonder how far and how robust a program written in ANN is.

I am experimenting with a program that tests ANNs to find this out. If there is no end to it's possible internal programming then a person could teach it smaller coding functions and perhaps, in the end, have an entire program created solely in ANN. The potential problems would be the possibility of unusual errors... (or consciousness.. :P) .. Anyway, or perhaps an ANN programming language has its limitations. I wonder if a simple program like concatenation of a string can be done. You would need to normalize the data into floats or doubles first. I don't know.. this is certainly fascinating.

I know that people use ANN for finding patterns, or even in OCR, stock-market predictors, I wonder if any of you has ever heard of a complex program written in ANN. I think it would take too long to teach it into one NN, however, it could be done in parts and then sown together. I wonder what something like that could be used for.

8pla.Net.

Thanks for your PHP example 8pla.Net. Yes, I like how easy it is to make templates in PHP. It keeps me from making redundant code.

I've been told I have a touch of Autism myself  :idiot2:. Not enough to destroy my life but just enough to have felt socially blind for most of my childhood. I help anyone I see with that kind of problem because they usually need all the help they can get. They are not known for asking help, and people aren't known for recognizing that aspies (someone with aspergers) usually wants it.

People require two things to live a happy life, #1 to be mentally happy, #2 to be emotionally happy. Lots of Autistic people find intellectual things that draw their interest. This usually satisfies the mental happiness. However, emotional happiness usually requires social interaction, which is not an aspies strong point. I try to encourage people to find something they enjoy and I try to build a friendship in the process. I've learned, if someone feels like you understand them then this can often open a door of social happiness to an otherwise closed off person.

I cannot idly set back and watch a person wither away in the darkness of the mind when I personally have experienced the torment they are going through. I'm glad that nowadays I recognize what I lack and I work hard to grow out of my social shortcomings. I work hard at being friendly and making friends. (although I still feel a need to disappear and never be seen or heard from again). I'm even trying to find ways to interact with you guys.  ^-^

Lots of love. 8)

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spydaz

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The Athena Project
« Reply #101 on: January 06, 2015, 12:30:24 am »
Why was the elephant wearing your pajamas? / Let me stuff your turkey,

Thinking about such phrases, It hard to say what type of response should be expected.
Let me stuff your turkey, < can be categorized <as a declarative proposal>  "a simple ok"
whereas; Why was the elephant wearing your pajamas? < as a question > unless a reason is stored then no answer can be determined.
Random statements and idioms don't really need to be interpreted by the AI.. Nonsense in nonsense out principle applies. some information should be saved and some should not be saved.
There are a lot of similar statements that fall under these category's. <your> becomes an indicator here Unless the AI has pajamas as one of its "sensors" or property's. as with the turkey, the same situation arises.
unless the AI is a cooking bot the statement has no relevance.

I have noticed that NLP programs have problems with these statements, this is also because there is no real meaning to them, or they are situational and temporary.

with regard to Artificial neural networks / regression and back propagation , They can be forced to produce "Any" result. simply put "overfitting" the data. they are not reliable. Many Parts of speech tagging systems work on probability and the statistics of the training set. the Penn tagger and the Stanford parser, and moby taggers all produce incorrect results. to check every word for its correctness is a painstaking task, although they have said to have accuracy levels 86%+

correct data in = correct data out
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 09:40:26 am by spydaz »

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ranch vermin

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Re: The Athena Project
« Reply #102 on: January 06, 2015, 03:43:27 am »
If youd like to have my opinion of ANN's,  here it goes -> :)

ANNs are the most traditional way to do 'machine learning'  when people say machine learning,  they usually mean an artificial neural network.  Heres something you might not have thought of,  but a markov chain, a word predictor you spoke about yourself, can be put into a neural network form.  (the transfer matrix is actually just a whole load of synapse weights, if you want to put it in a 'perceptron' form.)   
They seem mysterious at first,  but they are no more useful than anything you know already.   But its nice, taking an algorythm, and putting it into a connectionist form, any algorythm could be put in the form of a signal passing through a topology.  Even an NLP.   A cpu circuit, is a connectionist machine... running a cpu circuit emulator, is similar to running a perceptron/ANN.

I wouldnt call it a language developing inside,  but its more just a program developing inside the connections.

Coolest thing->  (you might have seen this before,  its a little motor function developing inside a connectionist machine)









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Snowman

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Re: The Athena Project
« Reply #103 on: January 06, 2015, 07:43:43 am »
ranch vermin

That video is crazy cool  O0, and that's the first time I've seen it (99% sure).
Since I'm trying to learn how to work with ANNs, I like trying to use my imagination and guess all the possible things I could do with an ANN. I do this because if I totally depend on others ideas it can inhibit my creativity. So I was speculating.. what if.. lets say I was coding a traditional program. Occasionally, I could have a function specifically designed to adapt to unexpected information. This particular function would be an ANN function. So wherever I already know the rules I would use traditional coding and wherever I needed adaptivity I would call an ANN based function. This would minimize errors and increase my programs overall intelligence, whatever program I intend to write.

Perhaps a generic ANN could be created, with predefined inputs and an output. All I would need then was a quick way of normalizing an input and interpreting the output to what use I have need of.  Then I could package it nicely into an intelligent function.

I know that in the human mind there are adaptive circuits. Some of these ANNs are predefined with knowledge from birth. For instance, it gave us the instinct to suck a nipple so we wouldn't starve to death. There are also sections of the brain that are pre-coded to do certain tasks, all written in ANN. Yet, there is also a tremendous ability for the mind to reprogram itself and learn new tasks. Even when half the brain is cut out of a person, the other remaining half will rewire itself to make up the difference to the best of its ability. So to create a program that's part traditional logic and part ANN logic is perfectly natural.

This is just floating around in my head.

Spydaz, yes I think you are very right. There are times a person says things just to be social, just to make some noise and break the silence. It's like the saying, How are you today? Most people who say that are not really asking a question, they are just being polite and trying to show it. Occasionally, someone will actually mean it.. like Art, but most are using it to portray a meaning of acknowledgment. Its like when two men look at each other and say, Did you see the game last night? When all they are doing is trying to relate friendliness. Its not like they actually care if the other person has any real opinions about the game. Just try and give an honest opinion and see if their eyes glaze over in disinterest... lol.

I guess that's one good argument for not learning everything the user has to say.   :)

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ranch vermin

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Re: The Athena Project
« Reply #104 on: January 06, 2015, 05:30:18 pm »
That video is cool, until I tell you it took ~30,000 simulations for it to reach the motor function it got at the end,  so watch out,  some function discovery methods are not very efficient.

I recommend laying flat the entire 30,000 sims, onto a texture then compute the whole thing parallel on the gpu, all at once.     But how much of a waste of processor power was it, when you could have coded the animation yourself, or perhaps used some more purposeful learning algorythm, like q-learning.

 


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