Ai Dreams Forum

Member's Experiments & Projects => General Project Discussion => Topic started by: goaty on July 06, 2019, 03:01:50 pm

Title: universal simulation
Post by: goaty on July 06, 2019, 03:01:50 pm

Why can we simulate electronic circuits (look at digital filters.) but we cant simulate the universe, aren't they the exact same thing?

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: goaty on July 06, 2019, 04:51:12 pm

I guess raytracers and electrical simulations are simpler than with the actual matter with it?

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 06, 2019, 05:05:04 pm

So you propose, we already simulate circuit boards (trillions of trillions of trillions of particles) on our computers as simplified but identical objects, so, therefore, why not larger things like planets, even with people on them, where we can run it even on our computers near exactly the same as it runs currently in real life?

Hmm...Well, we don't know how they work, do we.....

Or do we?

Well, sir, we can, grab UE4 and make some rivers and ur god!!

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: HS on July 06, 2019, 05:06:38 pm

Electric circuits are easy (relatively) to find equations for. The whole universe would require the infamous theory of everything. Then it should be possible to simulate a simplified version of the universe.

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 06, 2019, 05:08:21 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eXbVuev15Q

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 06, 2019, 05:13:12 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLSe7RxtJ4o

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 06, 2019, 05:16:44 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlqjz9OEhk0

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 06, 2019, 05:31:19 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGhyOBSzdTs

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 06, 2019, 05:35:42 pm

Clearly, after seeing the above, you can realize the higher level affects are independent of the small level effects. They ARE made of the small, but you can simulate te high level without any of the smaller. Alternatively, you can simulate a smaller level, say a few bubbles (not ALL). So you can simulate anything...if are reasonable about your storage/compute.

But, you gotta understand the effect. We don't know how bedrock decay/etc work fully but we can see the globe move in a circle - so we can do it, but not the bedrock decay. Same for humans, we can't do them, but can do effects from them, say, ozone damage by gas build-up.

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: WriterOfMinds on July 06, 2019, 06:13:27 pm

a) Our current understanding of quantum mechanics does not allow us to regard the universe as purely deterministic -- meaning that even if you know its present state, you cannot predict its upcoming state with certainty
b) Just measuring the complete present state of the universe would require a massive amount of effort, and it would be constantly changing while we tried to measure it
c) Even where a system is fully deterministic, we know its present state, and we have a good understanding of its laws, simplified simulations are not always possible (see: chaos theory)
d) The whole universe is way too big and we don't have the computational power

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: HS on July 06, 2019, 06:16:51 pm

We have figured out bits of how the universe works, we could combine them into one big simulation. Maybe a deep learning network could take a look at this model and determine a way to unify all of it.

We wouldn't be able to simulate "the universe" but it should allow us to simulate "universe". Its all made of the same thing, once you've got a bit, you've got it all.

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: Freddy on July 06, 2019, 06:20:41 pm

Anyone think that weather models are one of the most advanced simulations we currently have?

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: Korrelan on July 06, 2019, 09:30:41 pm

Quote

Anyone think that weather models are one of the most advanced simulations we currently have?

Living in the Midlands UK... No.

Anyone fancy a soggy BBQ burger?

 ;D

Ed:

Code

245=2+4+5=11 -- 245-11=234 -- 2+3+4=9
18=1+8=9 -- 18-9=9
193=1+9+3=13 -- 193-13=180 -- 1+8+0=9
222=2+2+2=6 -- 222-6=216 -- 2+1+6=9
333=3+3+3=9 -- 333-9=324 -- 3+2+4=9
559=5+5+9=19 – 559-19=540 – 5+4+0=9

Any number 10 up to 559 ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtB93yzgedc

 :o

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: Freddy on July 06, 2019, 11:03:12 pm

Hehe, I wasn't suggesting it was perfect.  :D

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: goaty on July 07, 2019, 08:30:06 am

The weather simulation probably is top notch tho,  with the tornado predictors.

If it was in a robots brain - he would surely go to sunny areas If the rain was rusting his circuits,  basicly rendering him one stiff diode after enough of it.

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: ivan.moony on July 07, 2019, 08:50:17 am

What about simulating the very life inside simulated Universe?

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 07, 2019, 10:42:23 am

Like which? We are already trying to - AI. Some try sensory-only-AI, so attempt body-AI sims. Some even try real body AIs.

Or do you mean cells or organs? How much simulated? There is many levels...shape, gravity, cells, molecules, atoms, particles...

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: ivan.moony on July 07, 2019, 11:33:04 am

like one we could play god with.

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 07, 2019, 11:41:48 am

Just make a diverse landscape on a globe world, and have stick-creature roombas venture around, tracking the nearest for food. The mutants that can eat the back side of them first (de-spawns them) multiply.

Or you go to stand up halo elites that learn better tactics....pretty simple....Halo 3 had good ideas, they would throw gernades at you and hoard and retreat, etc!! So simple!!

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: ivan.moony on July 07, 2019, 12:32:57 pm

I mean something more serious. Like creating a simulation of a Universe that can host livings that can think and produce their own artificial Universe.

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 08, 2019, 08:42:14 am

Then we need AGI...

Alternatively, we ourselves can create a sim where a sim is in it. All you need is redundant magnetic 1s&0s to re-create the same sim u made in that sim, sounds quite easy therefore.

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: Zero on July 08, 2019, 10:52:29 am

One day, I'll simulate a cat. Can I haz universeburgerz?

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: goaty on July 08, 2019, 11:38:09 am

That's one thing you cant simulate,  life.    But!  you can simulate them on some level,  like language prediction or body movement prediction.  But simulating a person properly requires the person itself.

When you dream of someone,  it isn't actually them,  its what you think of them.

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: ivan.moony on July 08, 2019, 11:54:05 am

Quote from: goaty on July 08, 2019, 11:38:09 am

That's one thing you cant simulate,  life.    But!  you can simulate them on some level,  like language prediction or body movement prediction.  But simulating a person properly requires the person itself.

When you dream of someone,  it isn't actually them,  its what you think of them.

We don't have that technology yet. Think about it... the first life form on the Earth may have been developed under some special conditions and setup of some atoms. Why couldn't we recreate the same environment artificially?

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: goaty on July 08, 2019, 02:19:01 pm

Well, if your desperate you could try and hack at the problem area at a time.

mechanical physics,   to get the bot walking around and picking things up and holding them.
language+movement predictor,  to build a model of what the surrounding basic intelligence is doing.
electrical,pneumatic,explosive gas simulation -  so it can predict what machines do around it.   so it could search in these areas as well.  -  it even would have an accurate reconstruction of what the hot water systems doing in the home.
photon simulator,   not sure how this would help it,  but it could predict what the light rays are going to do.
weather simulator,   it would know the weather in advance.

if you did all that,    youd have the simulation required, then theres just the other problems.

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: Art on July 08, 2019, 05:06:53 pm

Obviously, you have never witnessed the game, SIMS.  ;D

Dreams are our biological "digital dreams" or people, places or events, no matter how far, weird or fantastical.
It's that trip inside your mind that doesn't require a vehicle or passports!

Constructing artificial dreams in a bot might not really be that difficult. It's the waking up and getting back to reality simulation that's difficult! As you were!! ;)

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: ivan.moony on July 08, 2019, 07:22:37 pm

Having our own private Universe might be seducing, but on a second thought, I wouldn't like a computer to decide about feelings of the living beings inside the simulation. Also, what if something goes wrong, by some programming bug or something?

But anyway, it would be nice to see just a simulation, not the real thing.

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: HS on July 08, 2019, 08:28:17 pm

Well if it is the real thing, (real life inside a computer simulation), then the computer wouldn't be deciding the feelings of the creatures inside, they would be deciding that. That's what life means. So I'd like the real thing. The idea of something external controlling life is like an infinite Wizard of Oz. You can say the computer controls them, and the physics of our world controls the computer, and bladi blah controls our physics. I think its more likely that its a shared responsibility rather than a force that hides way in the back, that puts everything into motion.

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 09, 2019, 03:08:32 am

....the people in the sim are controlled.....by the physics engine..........their arms/brains move and controls them without free will, think of the brain as the evil enemy that keeps them in chains of destined determination, physics controls everything..........and they are just machines, no feelings and they can't feel pain or pleasure just like we don't, as its just all physics...

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: goaty on July 09, 2019, 03:18:34 am

Hopefully something ->
That's thinking idealisticly,  what if god makes mistakes.   Things aren't so pretty, but its ugly to talk about how we could all be doomed, and the devil is just asleep at the moment.

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 09, 2019, 03:20:56 am

its really really ugly, make you throw up and need thinking coaching, but you'll get it maybe later if you think hard

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: goaty on July 09, 2019, 04:22:39 am

But what is the cause of it!! (Im pretty sure it all stems from one main flaw.)

How do I explain this...


You know, you go think what your going to run your machine with, you can use air power, or you can use electricity power, and maybe at a far stretch you could magneticly power, but then its not coming from a battery.  What im trying to say is there IS NO OTHER KIND OF BATTERY.

Even if there is some alien method,  it would never ever reach a show of 10 fingers even if you knew the secrets of almighty heaven!!!!

So... im saying...  IMPOSSIBILITY causes INEVITABLE SADNESS AND DOOM!!!    and its because there is no more,  now even the devil himself will disintrigrate after hes finished torturing us,  even tho in his power he could have done anything.

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 09, 2019, 04:27:54 am

A battery like energy or a battery like determined physics that fuels what's next? Ah,

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: HS on July 09, 2019, 07:00:17 am

I don’t know you guys… You can say I’m being idealistic because I can’t handle the truth. I can say you’re predisposed towards a position that makes you feel superior. I’m not convinced either way. What seems more likely? Everything controls itself because actions stem from the nature of every particle and system. Or. Everything is controlled by something smaller. Who’s to say that only the most basic particles get a say? There could be driving forces at each level of complexity, themselves increasing in complexity until you get free will. They could coexist without interfering with each other. Like we can play tennis, without interfering with the bacteria playing hide and seek with immune cells, and those don’t interfere with the jiggling of their constituent atoms. Maybe there isn’t an order imposed from the bottom up. Maybe there are just stable, self-deterministic systems at each level of complexity.

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 10, 2019, 06:15:34 am

"Everything controls itself because actions stem from the nature of every particle and system."

"Everything is controlled by something smaller."

"Who’s to say that only the most basic particles get a say? There could be driving forces at each level of complexity, themselves increasing in complexity until you get free will. They could coexist without interfering with each other. Like we can play tennis, without interfering with the bacteria playing hide and seek with immune cells, and those don’t interfere with the jiggling of their constituent atoms. Maybe there isn’t an order imposed from the bottom up. Maybe there are just stable, self-deterministic systems at each level of complexity."



If you read the below I wrote-out, you can see i discovered a slew of answers after some short rubbing out.

Well, the all particles affect all particles 1st statement is true, it's the way. As for the 2nd statement, if we have 4 metal boxes each made of 4 boxes and each has molecular systems, all the atoms of the systems, and even the metal walls themselves, affect all the other particles, and yes the electricity can 'push' the metal box and the box stays intact while moves, but this is the all p affect all p statement #1. I'll get back to the higher effects next; So; we have higher level effects where the particles can ex. move a box particles but not the particles themselves in comparison to each other as they stay n place relative to one another, indeed they can coexist as you say. As for the driving force coming from higher levels, that would be a box having been pushed and the box wall that is moving - not the particles - hit a target and 'move it'. Hmm, but this is particle forces. We have higher level effects but they are artificially made! So we have higher level artificial forces, coexistings! A girl can be running on a track in field while a slug walks in a circle in her gut track (lol) while an atom in the slug moves in a circle around its blood vain track (lol). The girl's hand or feet can push something and the slugs in her hand are in relative forces in her hand, and again a level lower. The force comes from her solid hand wall 'body' 'particle'. So we have particles that make up particles that make up particles, atoms make make up cells that make up bodies. Bodies are 'solid'. Cells are 'solid'. Atoms are 'solid' to cut. Even particles are 'solid'. Any of the 'particle' solids can be the driving force in physics. A body can push something, while that body carries smaller 'particles' in itself that stay in relative motion with it like a satellite does circling Earth. The lower particles do so because the higher level particle human body is 'solid' and can 'push' all the stuff inside itself in the same direction. So our levels of 'particle' forces are many sizes made from its parts, and often the 'Human Particle' can be moving and have smaller slug particles inside itself. We have different size particles, its just that some can fit inside others seamlessly because the one carrying them is solid and let's them feel like they are not even moving while sitting in the gut track. So it's true all particles affect everything, but without building higher level larger particles, we would all be liquid monsters with no bones and no thoughts. This is why we can do the simulations I showed in this very thread without simulating trillions of trillions of particles. Also a computer system is already making its own driving forces that are massively unaffected by particle effects or molecular effects. Computers can create a [digitally perfect' redundant mathematically driven simulation with forces...

Title: Re: universal simulation
Post by: LOCKSUIT on July 10, 2019, 09:33:46 am

And, maybe that's how we can skip the too-many connections theory of the brain and make it on regular computers, needing not trillions of dendrites etc.