wierd crank and lever transmission

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MagnusWootton

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wierd crank and lever transmission
« on: June 20, 2021, 12:01:42 pm »
Im trying and failing to get this machine to work,  its a little strange, but its equivilent of cogs spinning each other,  except done with rotating levers instead.
If you mentally take note,  then youll see every time it passes through a stage its twice as quick.       It actually travels twice as far each time, so it doubles force requirements,   so you probably wouldnt ordinarily be able to increase the hz more than say x16 times?   But if I reduce the size of each stage as it goes, it could get more than this,   but I have to get it right in the sim first,  and its taking some pretty precise measurements I cant get yet, to get it done.

So I just rendered this quick one of it sorta half working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCWU7wkvG58
(The end of the worm/snake is alot quicker than the start.)

I dont know what the peak frequency hz rate for mechanical logic is,   but if I get this done (In open s-cad) I can find out.
As soon as I get it done, I just need a quick redesign to get it printable with living hinges, instead of pins,  (also makes it castable in a single biscuit.) and get it printed straight away.

But I just stuck in waiting for it,  need to press on.   If it gets to 100kilohertz or something u wont need an arduino anymore, and its fully plastic!
I worked on it all today,  I did get alot of bugs fixed, but im going to need maybe another couple of days.

If I get it done,  ill continue the project thread here.

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MagnusWootton

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Re: wierd crank and lever transmission
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2021, 08:46:02 am »
I fixed it,   its fully working now.  The video cant bring it back below the 4th or so level,  its going too fast for it to play it back properly,   if the first stage is 1 hert, the final stage here (18th) is 200kilohertz,  but I dont know if itll translate to real life or not,  I have to print it out and see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZbGCmToe1U

I had a few fixes to do,   its the same as any other programming except Im not very good at open-s-cad script, plus its all slightly new all through it, IDE wise, I had change the rotational stroke from 180 to 90,  and had to fix a few problems,  it has to be lined up perfectly, to keep rotational stroke constant as it goes along.

This is true to inverse kinematics,  and now its only going 90 degrees left to right, it probably wont jackknife or kink,  so its a good sim for a reality check...  I have to do it all again now (Only 1 more time.) and this time make it a single flat entity connected by living hinges.  (Which makes it easily castable!)   Im going to try starch+glycerine, to construct it,   but that will make it pretty weak,  might still work,    if that works it means it costs very little to pay for the liquid to constitute it.

So hopefully in a couple more days,  Ill have it done and my printer is ready to go as soon as I get it finished,  and Ill see how fast I can get mechanical movement!   Maybe electricity isnt so superior as I and many others are thinking!      If I reduce the scale of the machine as it goes faster and faster,  It may make high hertz possible,  and mechanical video games and general logic is faster than I was thinking! but I have to see to know!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 12:11:30 pm by MagnusWootton »

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Re: wierd crank and lever transmission
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2021, 02:18:33 am »
Is this a device that extracts tons of free energy from the combination of slow motors and then lets it stay stored in a loop back in that further combines, sort of like cells or fire when given air, fuel, and heat will self-propel itself? What if it makes the planet catch fire?

:p
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MagnusWootton

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Re: wierd crank and lever transmission
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2021, 09:53:54 am »
Is this a device that extracts tons of free energy from the combination of slow motors and then lets it stay stored in a loop back in that further combines, sort of like cells or fire when given air, fuel, and heat will self-propel itself? What if it makes the planet catch fire?

:p

You can do the same thing with cogs, I was just trying to be original.
Its just levers connecting to levers in a formation that makes it go faster and faster,  because I need to get a computer-like hz, for a castable plastic computer.   It only has 1 motor required, on the first lever.     For it to go faster and faster it takes more and more effort for the motor to move it all,  thats why it gets smaller and smaller to counteract this, like a fractal.   The computer logic elements are only a millimetre in size (they connect onto the small end of this device),  and the rotational stroke is only 1/4 millimetre, or maybe even 1/8 of a millimetre in this, because it only goes 90 degrees not 180 degrees.

But whats the point of it!!!   Im going to run a mechanical asic with it.
Heres a picture of my logic element,  which is a subtractor,  and I can do any logical program, with just a reordering of this single repeating element->



This logic element is a millimetre (very small millatech),  but the stroke is actually even less than that.
The smaller the logic piece is physically, the faster it is going to be able to go,  my guess.

The +1/2  and -1/2 bias makes it work with signed additions/subtractions,   its the analogue equivilent of 2s complement,  I just subtract the halfway point each time, and it has positive and negative numbers enabled.

Ill be printing it out in a couple of days,  on my anycubic photon, but I've got a bit of theory I'm going to finish before I do so.

Ill be posting it here when I get it done, for the ultimate demonstration! :)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2021, 01:14:58 pm by MagnusWootton »

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HS

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Re: wierd crank and lever transmission
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2021, 02:59:29 pm »
I've been thinking the friction from all those connectors sliding through their slots (if that's your plan) might add up. If there's too much resistance, maybe you could make the translating movement guides out of living hinges too?

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MagnusWootton

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Re: wierd crank and lever transmission
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2021, 03:04:12 pm »
I've been thinking the friction from all those connectors sliding through their slots (if that's your plan) might add up. If there's too much resistance, maybe you could make the translating movement guides out of living hinges too?

Thanks for the help.
Yes, its half translational half rotational.  it does slide (pistons) as well as bend.(cranks)   I do have a brittle design thats very similar to make out of even concrete maybe, but the one I'm going to put together first is going to be flexable, with the living hinges.

I'm worried about friction too,  if its 20kilohertz or more it could burn itself out really easily maybe!   So I was thinking maybe I run it in coolant liquid, might help?  Ill get to that issue once its printed.   Then I give it water dynamics on the shape of the levers to help it cut through the liquid easier.
If you use a lubricant to cool it,  it could also help the sliding bits as well.

I'm not sure how movement guides could be living hinges - wouldn't that only be for rotational -  can u draw a picture to illustrate your idea?  (I think we should all help each other,  sharing is caring! :)::)


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Re: wierd crank and lever transmission
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2021, 09:34:54 pm »
I was having adventures in hinge-land, let me tell you...  ;D Tried out all sorts of combinations, but always ended up with ''slightly'' too many degrees of freedom.

20210623-131201" border="0

Eventually I had to admit defeat. But! While working with the cardboard I noticed that a pure leaf-spring, or hinge and spring arrangement might actually work.

20210623-130705" border="0

Adding springs or just making use of the elasticity of the plastic would keep the energy in the system, so the oscillator might run easier with that than with pistons. Of course that would make the mechanism more complicated, but it's a possible way forward in case there's too much friction. Happy inventing!

20210623-131230" border="0

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MagnusWootton

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Re: wierd crank and lever transmission
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2021, 10:11:55 pm »
Nice brainstorming.

I think itll make it more simple, not more complicated.  Its more unified if the whole thing rotated.

Problems always look impossible at first,  but there only needs to be 1 way to do it out of a million and its still possible.
Its cool you got the cardboard out for some simulation,  thats all basicly the computer is. :)



It would be a better machine if it did get rid of the sliding,  I had a look at your diagrams but I couldn't see how it could work yet,   but maybe I will look into this for the next couple of days,  getting the whole thing rid of the sliding would make a lot of sense in the printing + casting as well, because it wont have two bodies right up against each other, which wouldn't print that well.    Maybe it requires 2 moulds,  one for an underplane and barriers, and the next mould fits in which has the segments.

If somehow that piston got to constrain to left and right movement only, without the barriers, it would be a better design by alot.  fabbin' have less proximal entities and it working better with no friction.

Could you draw onto my picture your modification -  then I might be able to recognize it.

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MagnusWootton

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Re: wierd crank and lever transmission
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2021, 10:23:26 pm »
I could just allow for an arc,  instead of side to side travel, and maybe itll still work?
Its definitely a better machine if I get rid of those barriers.   So I think I will change it,  not sure what its going to be yet tho for certain.



One thing to add, the longer that "barrier lever" is,  the less error there is, because it would be changing angle less. So if u made it a long one, it would have less error, but it would take up more estate.

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Re: wierd crank and lever transmission
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2021, 05:07:15 am »
Alright, maybe this is a better description of what I was thinking before. See what you make of this.

eBMVRwp" border="0

I also figured out how to do it with hinges! The trick is to have them at 90 degrees to each other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEyr10Lw644&ab_channel=HS

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MagnusWootton

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Re: wierd crank and lever transmission
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2021, 08:18:41 am »
Love the model its excellent!   ur Dog looks like hes well cared for.

I'm not quite sure what I'm looking at, excuse my lack of creativity,  but its got my imagination going for sure, so I'd say that this problem is solvable without sliding bearings! I think its got to be true seeing what uve done, but I have to understand it better.

This would be a nice  model to get a flexable print out of,  but as I can see, old school cut and paste is a good low tech alternative.

Ill keep looking at it,  and Ill tell you when I finally get it. =)

...
[edit]
so what im worried about, is has it got enough resistance to upward and downward forces?
Because its a free rotating connecting rod coming from a rotating crank, so its going to want to drive it up and down a bit,  but i guess those springs will keep it line at least 50%?


Id love to see a car using this as its engine,  would be great.  Im into novelty machines.  (even tho a car engine is a bit viscious and probably is better suited to non flexable aparati.)

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MagnusWootton

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Re: wierd crank and lever transmission
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2021, 03:29:10 pm »
Is it acting like an inverter and the piston is isolated in some fashion?  (I mean when the rod goes in, it pulls the piston towards it?)  Its great, but I cant get it,  but I'm positive its worth something!  and im gonna get rid of those pesky slide barriers if its the last thing I do!

Did u name ur dog Einstien?  Hes really interested in your machine.

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Re: wierd crank and lever transmission
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2021, 04:58:03 pm »
I'm not sure if it's like an inverter, the best comparison I can think of is door physics.

A door can swing open/closed easily, this is usually forwards/backwards, but it will resist someone pulling up/down on the handle. So it can be pushed forward easily, but won't move at all in a direction 90 degrees from that. The further apart the hinges, and the narrower the door, the more decidedly it only wants to swing open and closed.

The triangle parts (hinged connectors) going from the frame (towards the center) to the piston (attached at the ends) are like closet doors. (You can pull on it in the middle, and one end will slide out of the wall, opening the door.) But same as a regular door, the horizontal hinged connectors (there are four of those) will not rotate up and down, only forwards and backwards. The vertical ones (I'm indicating one in the thumbnail of the video) will resist side to side motion.

Now you've got a piston being held so that (if the cardboard were stronger) it can't move up and down, or side to side, or any diagonal combination of these. It is constrained to just forwards/backwards motion along the line of the piston.

Our dog (Rosie) might be considered smarter than Einstein because she has wisely chosen to have her priorities straight and mainly chases squirrels instead of worrying about theoretical physics. She really is quite smart, but only when she needs to be. Retrievers seem to have their lives figured out, I'm sure I could learn something from that.

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MagnusWootton

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Re: wierd crank and lever transmission
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2021, 07:00:00 pm »
IC!  finally.   so those inner attachments are connected to door opening frame not the rod!    cool i get it now!

congrats on the wicked invention,  ill add it in!   

I'm a bit slow these days,  but if you get there in the end,   you get to have more IKEA effect. (your proud of yourself more than the man that knows it all right at the start. hehe)

 


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