[sunama]

One thing that I have just thought of is:

at present the OP has 0% of the market share when it comes to captcha tech.
This means that nobody will be wasting their time creating a cracking algorithm for the OPs tech (in the early stages).
Hence, I don't think he should waste his time attempting to create an uncrackable tech. This is a complete waste of time at this stage.

The first step is to get the product to market. After this, IF he gains market share and his idea begins to take off, bots will appear which crack the OP's tech. It is only at this time, that he should begin to direct his time/effort on altering the images to avoid the bot crackers.

I don't know why I didn't think about this before...I was thinking too much like an academic and not enough like a business man.

Tut tut.

Also, OP, what name are you giving this tech...think of a brand name and register some domain names.

[infurl]

The first step is to get the product to market. After this, IF he gains market share and his idea begins to take off, bots will appear which crack the OP's tech. It is only at this time, that he should begin to direct his time/effort on altering the images to avoid the bot crackers.

If the first step is to get the product to market, does that mean that actually creating the product has to wait until the second, third or fourth steps? Heck, with marketing skills like yours, why even create a product! At least now I know not to invest in any of your projects.

[DaveMorton]

Well, all of the "good" names (NewCAPTCHA, HumanCAPTCHA, etc.) are either taken, or are too close to that of an established brand to use, except one: CAPTCHA4us. Actually, I kind of like that one. It's "CAPTCHA for the rest of us" (those who can't well read what's out there).

My biggest problem here with making this a commercial venture is that I have NO connections, knowledge, or experience in this area. I think I might know a couple of people I can talk to, to get advice about it, but that's not a certainty. I'll have to check, and will let you know what I find out, once I do. Of course, if you know of anyone I could talk to about it, who I don't have to worry about "stealing" my idea, then I would be happy to listen.

@Andrew: lol, good point.

[sunama]

If the first step is to get the product to market, does that mean that actually creating the product has to wait until the second, third or fourth steps? Heck, with marketing skills like yours, why even create a product! At least now I know not to invest in any of your projects.

Easy there tiger.

The first step is indeed creating the product. This is a given (I probably worded this incorrectly).
It doesn't need to be the fully polished product (this is what I was getting at). It must work though and be ready for a customer to use on their website/forum.
This won't take long, because the OP has already shown that the product works.
The idea is already implemented. The labour intensive part is creating the different drawings and questions.

What you don't want to do is spend months/years on this idea and then after all that hard work...no one buys or uses your product, when it is released.
OR worse still, you think of the idea...you spend 2 years making it polished and perfect...in the meantime another company has released a very similar product (captcha alternative) and is basically ahead of you in market share. Effectively, you will be dead and buried before you even started.

This is why you need to create a beta version to test the waters. See if it sells or gets interest. Once you have a website, you can showcase your product and check the response.
At this stage, if the response is really bad, you can ditch your idea. You will only have wasted 2-3 months of your life. No big deal. At least you tried.

If you do as some people will have you do, ie. product the fully polished version...and then it fails, you will have wasted a lot more of your time and you will find it VERY difficult to walk away from. Many inventors have problems walking away from something that they invested much time/effort in and end up spending even more time and effort attempting to break the market with a product that simply has no chance of succeeding.

You need to test the idea out first, before scaling it up and spending serious resources (time/effort/money) on it. Virtually every company in the World started small and then grew. They didn't start out huge and polished.

Re: infurl
With regards to talking about having no product before launching it. This is actually a common strategy used in business.
I shall give you an example.
A guy (call him Paul Allen of Microsoft) promises a company (call them IBM) that he can have a piece of software (call it 86-DOS, which is later called MS DOS) up and running on their computer, which promises to do something.
At this stage, MS have not created or own anything like this software...yet.
Allen and Gates then buy a clone of the software from another company (call them Seattle Computer Products) after taking an advance from IBM . They rebrand it (MSDOS) and deliver it to IBM.
Had the above deal not happened...MS would probably have shut down a long time ago.

I can give you other examples of similar practises where a company will sell (and take money for) products that they don't actually have yet, but I think you get the picture.


OP, I am not advocating that you do what Microsoft did, as it does require great business acumen, skill and luck to pull something like that off. It is also very risky and could cost you dear (ask Oracle).
The choice is yours as it is your idea. What I like about it, is the low start up costs. Providing you have the right technical skills, you can get your prototype ready for people to try out for very little.

The danger is that another company will come along and do exactly what you are doing and bring the product to market earlier and faster. Once customers start using their product, you will have to convince those customer to abandon their existing captcha supplier and use yours instead. This may not be easy. Even if you prove that your product is better, those using the rival company's captcha (which is very similar to yours) may not switch to your product. And remember this, the best product doesnt always win.

If I were you though, I would spend at least 2 days searching the internet to see if there are any captcha alternatives which offer what you are doing and/or are very similar. Check out the competition...this is extremely important.

[Data]

Off the top of my head and they are available URL's :

extreamcaptcha

procaptcha

[sunama]

OP, what country are you in?
I might be able to give you some links on where you can get some business advice.

[infurl]

The first step is indeed creating the product. This is a given (I probably worded this incorrectly).
...
If I were you though, I would spend at least 2 days searching the internet to see if there are any captcha alternatives which offer what you are doing and/or are very similar. Check out the competition...this is extremely important.

Thanks for clarifying that. Fact is I knew all that already, and then some, but wanted to make sure you did. You wrote it all down very well this time.

Unfortunately there is no shortage of entrepreneurs who are willing to take money for non-existent products, and in some cases they do actually go on to prosper. Microsoft is probably the biggest and worst example of that, however I maintain that the world would be a much better place if Microsoft (and others like it) had died thirty years ago instead of the shameful situation today where the majority of computer users think that it's normal for computers to be slow and unreliable.

That original software that Bill & Paul picked up for a song and turned in to MS/DOS was called Q/DOS which stood for Quick and Dirty Operating System. If only IBM had gone with CP/M instead.

It didn't end there either. When Microsoft developed the next version of the PC operating system for IBM it was so bad that IBM refused to have anything to do with it and decided to develop their own. IBM's software was called OS/2 and it is highly regarded to this day, although I doubt that anyone still uses it. On the other hand the garbage that Microsoft developed was marketed as Windows/NT and we're still stuck with its derivatives.

[DaveMorton]

OP, what country are you in?
I might be able to give you some links on where you can get some business advice.

Um... No offense, but "OP" =  "Dave". Feel free to use it, since it's not copyrighted. All my friends (and most of my enemies) call me that.

Anyway, I live in the US. I've got a couple of emails out, asking other folks who have had commercial success with their products if they were willing to discuss how they went about taking their projects "commercial", and I have a couple of other options that I can pursue, as well. You must understand, though, that I'm not what folks call a "type A" personality. Heck, I'm probably closer to "type L". So the pace of this will, understandably, and without regard for the consequences, be slow to accelerate. Not to worry, though. I'll get there; just in my own good time.

[sunama]

When Microsoft developed the next version of the PC operating system for IBM it was so bad that IBM refused to have anything to do with it and decided to develop their own. IBM's software was called OS/2 and it is highly regarded to this day, although I doubt that anyone still uses it. On the other hand the garbage that Microsoft developed was marketed as Windows/NT and we're still stuck with its derivatives.

A lot of academics concentrate on creating/perfecting a product and believe that just because their product is the best, that it should automatically be successful. Unfortunately (and I really do mean this, because I believe that the best product should win), this is not the case. A lot of great products vanish into thin air due to many factors.

Being first to market is a big big advantage, though as Google showed (by beating MS, Yahoo, Alta Vista, etc), you could still get beaten by a new entrant...so being first to market is no guarantee of success.

My own belief, is that the marketing of a product is more important than the actual product itself [when it comes to maximising sales (and the maximising the success of your company)].

[infurl]

My own belief, is that the marketing of a product is more important than the actual product itself [when it comes to maximising sales (and the maximising the success of your company)].

Haha, there it is. Changing the world, one bank account at a time.

[sunama]

I'm based in the UK and there is a great emphasis for banks to assist small businesses and start ups. I'm not sure about the situation in the USA.

Have you thought about calling into a bank and asking to speak to a business advisor? In the UK this service is free.
I'm not sure if this service exists in the USA (it probably does).
If it does, you can tell a business advisor that you were thinking of starting a software business and what steps he would recommend you go through, to get to market. At this early stage, they certainly won't lend you money, but they can certainly advise you. And they might be able to put you in touch with other organisations, which might offer free business advice to small business or startups.

I often get advice from business mentors (for free), though they are UK based, from here:
http://www.horsesmouth.co.uk/

Anyway good luck man and keep us posted of any developments.

[ivanv]

My own belief, is that the marketing of a product is more important than the actual product itself [when it comes to maximising sales (and the maximising the success of your company)].

Haha, there it is. Changing the world, one bank account at a time.

imho, sunama has a point. marketing is important, right? suppose someone has the best product in the world and tells no one about it. but there is (of course) the other side: the worst product with the best marketing has a chance.

[DaveMorton]

Ok, people. I've taken the plunge, robbed my piggy bank, and registered captcha4us,com. There's not much there, but you can visit the "landing page" at:

http://www.captcha4us.com/

I'll be working on setting up a forums page for support issues and the like at some point in the coming days/weeks, as I can squeeze in the time. Freddy and Data, I'd love some input with SMF, if I choose to go with it.

[Bragi]

2 things:
First, Sunama has a point: most engineering companies don't start a job before the contract is signed (aka paid for). Of course, this is business to business. This is also why it's so hard to get on these markets: trust is based on previous work.
Secondly: about the marketing: as much as this is not popular to say, fact is, in our current society, you can't do without.
I guess, these are 2 different approaches, 2 different systems of doing business.

[Freddy]

I'll be working on setting up a forums page for support issues and the like at some point in the coming days/weeks, as I can squeeze in the time. Freddy and Data, I'd love some input with SMF, if I choose to go with it.

Sure, I would be glad to help.  If you don't want the extra learning immediately I can co admin it with you if you like. 

I'm biased towards SMF but at the same time that's where my knowledge is too. Feel free to use it