[Art]

Personally, I feel that every living thing is self aware in one sense or another.

The problem is that we humans, don't and can't understand them, how their tiny minds work, how ants and bees are incredibly organized societies, caring, helping, sharing the work, regulating their environment, doing what ever their tiny minds deem necessary for them to survive, not too unlike humans.
Most animals are quite capable of memory and many of long term memory, compassion, helping, jealousy, fighting, nursing, loving. Yet we would say that they are not self aware? Really? I don't think that's fair or reasonable. Again, this is just my take but it is what I believe so it is what it is.

As far as them being able to comb their hair in a mirror or recite a passage from Shakespeare's Hamlet, that is obviously an ability that a lot of humans pride themselves on being able to do. Not all but some. Why not all? Would they not be self aware? Do some savants exhibit that same trait? They don't do except that which they are told or directed under a close watchful caregiver. Does that make them less human in that regard? Yet they can tell you what day of the week you were born on in a couple of seconds or the population of London, England based on the 2015 Census. What's that say for the rest of us? By some intelligence counts that would almost put us years behind in development, compared to them.

Basically, they have little to no social skills but often great musical or mathematical or cognitive skills. Some are barely what we'd call self aware.

One problem is we have a difficult time trying to define Intelligence or to measure IQ or Self Aware. We simply label those things as we will and as they suit us for our needs at the moment. Some of it is done for documentation or discussion or for practical experiments, but our own definition might only apply to us and not to everyone else, in the broader sense.

Whatever the case, it's just more to think about...
It's almost like Deja Vu all over again!

[jlsilicon - Robotics AI]

Good point ... hm,

I think the point between Awareness and Consciousness - needs to be mentioned here.

Awareness - is knowledge of somethings exist and/or occurences happened (just knowing the now).
  ex: I am aware of the plants (and World).
  ex2: Mouse is Aware of the Cat (and world).

Consciousness - is ability to manipulate the idea in the mind (including predicting / planning / modifying / etc).
  ex: I consciously think/decide/predict/plan/change the growing of plants (farming) (and World).
  ex2: Mouse Consciously predicts/plans around the Cat (and World).

[Korrelan]

Omg… major hangover lol (note to self… must get a quieter keyboard).  Thought I’d slip a post in before work.

@jlsilicon

Does it present Consciousness ?

You have to careful not to upset people or make claims that you can’t substantiate.  This is a machine simulation of machine ‘consciousness’… not human. When I use the term ’consciousness’ from now on it refers to my interpretation of machine consciousness.

I’ve spent many years researching and designing this AGI to exhibit consciousness… it will have no choice… the design ‘forces’ consciousness.  It might not initially be a ‘human type’ consciousness but it is certainly intelligent lol.  I’m also extremely confident self-awareness will eventually arise… as I understand it to work… again the system is designed to force (my version) of self-awareness.

Savantism, Synaesthesia, split personality disorders, epilepsy, even hypnotism, etc can all arise in the AGI by design. I considered the possible causes of these disorders whilst designing the AGI and used them as references to refine the design.  If the AGI looses vision for example, eventually the cortex areas (V1, etc) dedicated to vision will be taken over by the other senses to enhance their function/ resolution, it’s an inherent part of the learning/ development processes.
 
The narrow fields of learning I’ve applied the AGI too so far are all showing positive traits that the ‘spark’ of consciousness is present, as I understand/ expect it to manifest (my interpretation).

I have the usual problem of running my business and finding time to work on the AGI; so progress has been slow. I’ve solved 90% of the problems now though so development speed should pick up.

@Freddy

@Korrelan, I tend to think and structure things left to right too - left is past, right is future here too.

I read an article many years ago about an isolated tribe who lived in the jungle next to a river.  When tested by physiologists their ‘time line’ ran from up to down… the interpretation was that the because the river played such an important role in the lives they basically saw the past as up stream… and the flow of time/ river as the present and future… weird.

Some time ago I learnt about Chromesthesia - people who see music in colours.

Ahh.. Synaesthesia… Another form is when people see certain letters in various colours. A study a few years back linked this to the old ‘Fisher Price’ fridge magnets for kids. A very high percentage of the colours envisioned matched the colours of the magnets… a link at a very early age was made between the colour and a specific letter of the alphabet… cool.

@Art

I think savant syndrome is explainable. The human brain has a finite bandwidth (and volume) to carry/ process information… the brain is very plastic and sections will take over/ enhance existing sections if they are not used.  Unfortunately for the savants their extraordinary skill sets come at the cost of other innate abilities.  Pieces of their ‘consciousness/ mental tools’ are missing (eg emotion) due to developmental reasons/ damage.  That means the bandwidth that would have been used by the missing sections if freed up, and the areas of cortex that would have been dedicated to the missing traits become available to enhance existing traits. I'd much rather have the full average set of mental attributes lol, though we all differ in our mental abilities... and we are all slightly paranoid, schizophrenic, etc but we fit into the accepted ‘norm’.

Time for work… laters.

 

[jlsilicon - Robotics AI]

Yes, good points, Korrelan,

If you close your Eyes, your Hearing Sensitivity is increased.
If you cover your Ears, your Eyes can distinguish more.

Good experiment that I showed:
Note kids on Television - do not Hear you, do not Play, just Tv zombies.
But, if you let the kids watch Tv only if Muted ,
- then suddenly they can Hear and Talk with You (and each Other) - and Play with their Toys while Watching Tv.

Example of Dual Sensory Channels being Used, Monopolizes the Mind.
Besides the Sensory 'Bandwidth' - you are also using more of the Brain
- Dual Sensory Visual and Audio here is using both Data Input / Recognition -and- Audio Feedback / Verification.

More Thinking Used - Not necessarily the Best Thinking - of course ...

[LOCKSUIT]

If you close your Eyes, your Hearing Sensitivity is increased.
If you cover your Ears, your Eyes can distinguish more.

I have the attention system blueprint.

Who says Thoughts end in Senses and Motors ?
- What about Future, Structures, Abstracts, etc ... ?

Future thoughts is seeing stuff, all senses. All day I either move my but, or keep mentally seeing cupcakes in my head. Nothin else I know about. Senses & actions only. All of brain is dedicated to them.

tribe time line up to down

Yeah any way you want I know this well. They actually place their objects like that or mentally just pops-in downways. Memory history exists, bar, with many connections. All else is actions. Keep talking about time, I go to do actions today now. Your'll simply save some weird senses after selecting your senses and will affect your actions set selection. Senses & actions aren't magically done, only selected.

Actually, I think maybe a Mouse is Conscious in some sense.  It collects parts and food for a nest (plans ?).  It seems to look and Decide.

Oh yegh really. As for it's smart behaviour: look-n-decide, actions are done on cue/self-fire to hunt, notice while outside, look, approach. Ex. go outside by self-fire, seeing twigs selects get actions, seeing outside/tree selects look 180 degrees motions. Take that waha! And you thought it was magic slef-awrRRE ConSciouNUSSSS angel god stuff u know//.

predicting / planning / modifying / etc).
  ex: I consciously think/decide/predict/plan/change the growing of plants (farming) (and World).

Oh god, farming. First word you said, "I consciously". BUZZZ Wrong. Also Snasci seems to say it does " " without explaining, common beginner mistakes. Yes I advanced hmmm yoda yottabytes anyone yum (yum I give you) so ok here. Ok, now. >, ^. . . > thinking I explained, decide is actions on cue or self-fire neuron, plan is same sorry, predict is same sorry (actions) plus cue/self-fire can partilly select (by matching) mem sense (actions are linked to senses).

Most animals are quite capable of memory and many of long term memory, compassion, helping, jealousy, fighting, nursing, loving. Yet we would say that they are not self aware? Really?

Compassion is actions for rewards es even building a house it is why. Helping too. Jealousy too I attack you to get good (by stopping the seeing of John PLUS seeing girl). Fighting same. Nursing = rewardsssssssssssssssssssss. And your last but not least word, love, is reeeeeeeeeeeeeewardsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss. Yes no self-aware please stop.

IQ

There's the body, intelligence system, anddddddd da saved senses & actions and their metadata linked.

self aware

Some are good in math and music but not social and not aware, simply being aware is the robot doing a whole bunch of actions.

You don't even realize you are a robot do you? We can't live like that. Keeping thinking us aware is magic. Just us carrying out actions with arms/mouth. And magical consciousnesses don't exist. We robots. But yes AI creates a sensing ghost, has to be something (separate from physics) that senses n not particles blah.

[Freddy]

Ahh.. Synaesthesia… Another form is when people see certain letters in various colours. A study a few years back linked this to the old ‘Fisher Price’ fridge magnets for kids. A very high percentage of the colours envisioned matched the colours of the magnets… a link at a very early age was made between the colour and a specific letter of the alphabet… cool.

@Korrelan,

Interesting. I picture the months/seasons in colours. I trace this back to a calendar in my school when I was about five or six years old. But this is just mental for me - not quite like the people who see colours for music that actually visualise it.

[LOCKSUIT]

The calander seasons is images linked to images. Remembering or seeing one is linking to the other.

The music color people is images linked to sounds. Seeing or remembering one is linking to the other.

[Freddy]

I don't see images though, I just get an impression of a colour. I do think that my experience is learnt though. I already had linked the calendar I remember in my youth to this sensation as already mentioned.

The music color people is images linked to sounds. Seeing or remembering one is linking to the other.

I'm not so sure. They don't see images as such, they see flashes of colours/light according to the sound they hear. At least from what I have seen. You are implying that it is learnt behaviour when it could be neurological and innate.

[Korrelan]

We are born with 100+ billion neurons, nearly twice as many as an adult eventually ends up with; all compressed into brain half the volume of an adult (cortex).  The young human mind evolved to soak up knowledge at a phenomenal rate. At various stages during early development (3 yrs) as the volume expands the number of neurons is culled. Weak neurons and synaptic links are pruned…this produces a basic neural scaffold/ framework on which to build our teenage minds. It also happens again when we are in our teens, major changes occur as the body is flushed with testosterone/ oestrogen. Teens are a pain in the a** for a good reason.

During this early development when the brain is learning the basics of being a human it is extremely plastic, if some connection between seemingly unconnected experiences (music/ colour, letters/ colour, months/ colour) is repeated or experienced enough times it will be permanently imprinted. This kind of repetitive ‘imprinting’ has no equivalent/ parallel in natural human evolution and nature. It’s a ‘side effect’ or phenomena triggered by the environment we have designed for ourselves and our off spring… the evolution of our brain development hasn’t had time to catch up and compensate.

The same processes evolved to learn a particular mouth shape goes with a particular sound/ phoneme also learns a particular shape we see every day on the fridge door is always red… and always will be.

@Lock

Keeping thinking us aware is magic

There is nothing magic about consciousness or self awareness; they are both explainable phenomena.

 

[LOCKSUIT]

Oh, in that case Freddy then automatically seeing red by the system for a certain sound is completely useless.

Yes just as in my notes, you may not see the linked image to the say externally seen image, but you'll do the actions once the linked image from the other image is selected.

Remember back to the CRAWL ACCELOMETER learning + add a sprinkle of my knowledge = in memory stored sits the cue, linked to actions, and when see cue selects linked actions, BUT when see cue it enters and selects the memory but you don't see the selected memory for the next cue unless is stronger than the external sense when passing meh attention system.



Yes you know we are robots pcs but don't call it conscious or self-aware, that refers to magical souls that which is NOT a mechanism. We are only a mechanism. You may not know my info and how we act and do what we do, but at least realize it is a mechanism no different than a telephone or crank or steam engine. Our aware/conscious behavior is just that. And you're calling it a name that other simple things we/devices do aren't being called, for example our fingers that all curl in at the same time or waterfall isn't called those big names and neither should this behavior, it is simple just not understood. While if was complex wouldn't change this point. It's just a mechanism reaction of physics particles.

[LOCKSUIT]

Bonus note: Ivan was wrong cus well no image ~ face etc is "mean" or "steals" etc, the way I talk doesn't mean I am a black poor rude person as he said. Remember, we are robots (oh yes), and despite the top front face plate, (MIGHTY VOICE) I CAN PUUT ANYYYTTHING IN THAT THING WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

SENDS CUTE LITTLE GIRL IN - SUPER MASSIVE CIA JOE PLANTING NUKE AND SETTING UP A EATH HABITAT NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

ROGER, ROGER THAT

CALLLLLLING IN 7 4 3 2 1 9 9 9 9 9 SEND IT OFF

MORPHS INTO GODZILLA

[Art]

Any of you English folks hear of Daniel Temmet? You should check him out if not.

Daniel sees numbers as shapes, colours and textures and can perform extraordinary maths in his head. He can also learn to speak a language fluently from scratch in a week. He has Savant Syndrome, an extremely rare form of Asperger's that gives him almost unimaginable mental powers.

Quite an interesting and gifted fellow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Tammet

[Freddy]

Oh, in that case Freddy then automatically seeing red by the system for a certain sound is completely useless.

Who said it had to be useful ? An earwig has wings but doesn't use them.

Yes just as in my notes, you may not see the linked image to the say externally seen image, but you'll do the actions once the linked image from the other image is selected.

Well done for having an opinion. But you lack proof.

I am just throwing ideas into the conversation, not trying to force my opinion on anyone.

SENDS CUTE LITTLE GIRL IN - SUPER MASSIVE CIA JOE PLANTING NUKE AND SETTING UP A EATH HABITAT NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

ROGER, ROGER THAT

CALLLLLLING IN 7 4 3 2 1 9 9 9 9 9 SEND IT OFF

MORPHS INTO GODZILLA

Do you want to be taken seriously ?

Any of you English folks hear of Daniel Temmet? You should check him out if not.

Thanks Art 

[Freddy]

Yes you know we are robots pcs but don't call it conscious or self-aware.

We're simply using known and fairly well understood terms. What do you prefer - make something new up to mean the same thing ?

[LOCKSUIT]

I prefer to not call it conscious/self-aware lol.....just call it a robot reaction like a rock falling off a hill or dishwasher. Just call us a machine robot particles reactions.