[Freddy]

Well back to robots, since this was the long distant beginning of this thread.

I split this thread as it's not really related to jlsilicon's original post.

Question : Is a robot predictable ?

Discuss.

[LOCKSUIT]

Where its arm goes to the next move is impossible to know before seeing.

[Freddy]

Okay, so if you program this arm to pick something up - then you are saying that there is no way to know that it will follow the programming ?

[LOCKSUIT]

I meant for a machine (you Freddy) that doesn't have the info of what it will do next. Ex. it is human AI and you have no idea what data it learned inside.

[Freddy]

I'm not a robot...thought we cleared that up. For the sake of clarity I mean a machine made by a person.

If you have programmed the machine to perform an action, are you still saying that it cannot be certain that it will perform that action ?

[infurl]

If you have programmed the machine to perform an action, are you still saying that it cannot be certain that it will perform that action ?

This may be one of those times when Locksuit was accidentally correct.

Motion planning is actually very complex and can require a huge amount of computation. It depends on the robot and the environment, but solutions aren't necessarily guaranteed. In human terms, imagine trying to fit yourself into a box that's 50cm on a side, or even smaller. I've seen some contortionists do it but not everyone could.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_planning#Completeness_and_Performance

[Freddy]

Yep I'm not taking a stance - just exploring something that I was thinking about.

Along the lines of; if robots are not at all predictable then how can anyone guarantee the Utopia some people foresee.

[LOCKSUIT]

No, if you know it will do a programmed action then you will know the answer of what will happen. But if the mechanism is human AI and the actions are developed and you don't know what has passed through its brain and what has happened in its brain then no you absolutely will not know what its next action is unless you are watching the brain mechanism in action in a UI or something similar.

Infurl I meant the programmed action is known if known, not that the gravel soil beneath it makes its leg not complete the action, that would make the leg get stuck in the ground and not do the action, and you could also know this if you knew it.

Duuuuude the reason the utopia would happen if we are predictable particles is because of 1: all of their abilities only I list and 2: the play out of human AI robos is so not known unless watching in a UI and lots of stuff just happens by pure reaction - alot more stuff than a rock falling off a waterfall - surgeons saving people for a good income for food.

[Freddy]

Thanks for playing along.

But if the mechanism is human AI

You mean human level ai I assume ?

Duuuuude the reason the utopia would happen if we are predictable particles is because of 1: all of their abilities only I list and 2: the play out of human AI robos is so not known unless watching in a UI that lots of stuff just happens by pure reaction - alot more stuff than a rock falling off a waterfall - surgeons saving people for a good income for food.

Hmm, that doesn't quite add up. You already said in your first paragraph...

you absolutely will not know what its next action is

Going on you said :

unless you are watching the brain mechanism in action in a UI or something similar.

How does observation make it predictable ?

[LOCKSUIT]

Having the current human AI state and world (as much as can ex. virtual world) and simulating it at lightspeed if the AI isn't at lightspeed or is but you're a timestep ahead let's you have insight to all of the world and AI's future.

I meant utopia will happen because we do a lot of good unique tingies (the reaction that came from evolution) and even if you knew all da future we would end up all immortal in your witch-crystal-ball forecaster.

[Freddy]

So this is like some magic cosmic thing you think ?

[LOCKSUIT]

i it pure fhysics m man...

Also in a virtual universe with AIs in the computer you can do time travel for real.

They'll never know!

[Freddy]

A virtual universe is just that. I can fly around in the sky on SecondLife already. I don't mean a virtual universe I mean the one we are living in. Our reality.

Okay, branching out. You think everything in the universe is a machine that equates to any AI - to you they are all the same right ?

Do you think a bird is predictable ?

[LOCKSUIT]

All is just particles, that work by predictable physics unless someone messed with the physics by adding some uncertainty principal.

I meant get the AI state and world as much as can, simulate it faster/a timestep ahead of the original, then you can sorta of know what will happen in the *real world. Works better when in control of the universe.

[Freddy]

So you're saying that if we could model the entire universe that we exist in and run that simulation faster than the speed of light, we could observe what is happening and thus predict the future ?