A newer type of OS

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Art

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A newer type of OS
« on: June 19, 2011, 05:34:41 pm »
would really be nice if it had an Artificial Intelligence that was "Built In" from the start. It could help form a recognition profile just for you and along with your voice,
assist you in doing, searching, browsing, buying, forming opinions, collecting like information, sites, recommendations, etc. and could handle your programs, Anti-
Virus and Malware scans, play music, organize photos and movies, keep databases of say your DVD or coin collection, etc. as well as handle X-10, Zwave or other
so equipped devices in the residence. It would know and remind you of pending birthdays, anniversaries, appointments, maintenance and service agreements, pill
regiments and re-ordering schedules as well as simply be there as a chat assistant!

A "Smart" Operating System that would and could interface with practically any related device, perform self diagnostics and self tuning to keep its drive and memory
allocations at peak performance.

What's not to like?! Uhh...yes and just where can I get one? I don't mean those MS agent characters like Clippy or Ball either! O0
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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Data

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Re: A newer type of OS
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2011, 08:22:37 pm »
Indeed, we must bring this up at the next meeting of directors.

It wouldn’t surprise me if someone is working on such a project right now and I feel given time it will happen.

I also have a feeling that it’s going to be one hell of a buggy OS to start with, of course I could be wrong on all of the above.

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Art

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Re: A newer type of OS
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2011, 09:29:23 pm »
Appreciate your input and support.

Wrong? When have you ever been wrong Data?! ^-^
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Data

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Re: A newer type of OS
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2011, 01:06:55 am »
Wrong? When have you ever been wrong Data?! ^-^

The list would be quite long and probably a boring read. :-[

Seriously, what you have described paints a picture of how I see the perfect OS right now, my opinion might change as new technology evolves and programming gets ever more clever, its hard to say what’s round the corner, but yes, right now it would be my perfect OS.

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TheMikh28

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Re: A newer type of OS
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2011, 04:59:02 am »
An AI-based operating system would pose an extremely difficult challenge due to the severe limitations of low-level programming and programming language.

However, implementing a very minimalistic and open-ended operating system topped with artificially intelligent system-level software would be an excellent idea.

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It could help form a recognition profile just for you and along with your voice,

I think submitting all voice recognition information to some central server via the internet to be processed en-masse, with the processing results distributed to all operating systems via automatic updates would aid greatly with voice recognition capabilities in general.  Of course, a user's voice recognition profile could be used for security purposes.

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assist you in doing, searching, browsing, buying, forming opinions, collecting like information, sites, recommendations, etc. and could handle your programs, Anti-Virus and Malware scans, play music, organize photos and movies, keep databases of say your DVD or coin collection, etc. as well as handle X-10, Zwave or other so equipped devices in the residence. It would know and remind you of pending birthdays, anniversaries, appointments, maintenance and service agreements, pill regiments and re-ordering schedules as well as simply be there as a chat assistant!

As for a lot of features, I think users should be able to decide which features they wish to use (save for perhaps more important modules like malware scans and memory or data/information management) lest the operating system feel cluttered with features that may not be necessary for some users.

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A "Smart" Operating System that would and could interface with practically any related device, perform self diagnostics and self tuning to keep its drive and memory allocations at peak performance.

I can't see a comprehensive AI-based OS being useful on devices less powerful than, say, mobile phones or PDAs though.  In this day and age, anyway.  The processing power or memory required for optimal performance (assuming more components than intelligent memory management were utilized) in smaller and embedded systems may make the device cost more than consumers would be willing to pay for it, even if the operating system is free.

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I also have a feeling that it’s going to be one hell of a buggy OS to start with, of course I could be wrong on all of the above.

If a stable base-operating system were used, the added system software (the "AI component") might initially be buggy, but with dedication to refinement of processes, that would become less and less of an issue as time progressed.

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Art

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Re: A newer type of OS
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2011, 12:25:28 am »
My wish list proposed / implied that there were people smart enough at programming regardless of the language used to accomplish
the majority of the items I included.

I do not like the idea of sending everyone's voice samples in to be processed. Everyone has different and unique speech pronunciations,
tones, inflections, dialects (drawls) and slangs not to mention male / female / older /younger. The current method of training the SR
in each of our computers might seem a bit of a pain but it is a pain that ultimately works well for each who does spend the time to train.

"lest the operating system feel cluttered with features that may not be necessary for some users."
Have you looked hard at Windows or Apple? More than HALF of the "STUFF" in those OS's most people will never use nor have need for it.
A lot of us call that somewhat akin to "Bloatware."

All the features I mentioned were merely examples and were not written in stone.

I mentioned the "handshaking" (realization, acknowledgement, awareness, etc.) of additional devices when or if attached to the computer.
These might be scanners, cameras, printers, graphic tablets / pens, etc. Not necessarily PDA's or Smart Phones but they too could be
acknowledged as well. I meant no reference directly about smart phones but rather a real computer on the desktop (or laptop if it could
handle the OS, memory , storage requirements...).

As with all ideas comes some eventual common ground, a base dimension where like minded thoughts converge and building blocks are
laid with the prospect to weed out bulk, wastefulness and implement speed, dependability, room for expansion and ease of use....

I appreciate all comments as I was simply throwing out a "wish list" in hopes of reeling in some new bites! Thanks!!

In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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TheMikh28

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Re: A newer type of OS
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2011, 02:21:03 am »
Quote
My wish list proposed / implied that there were people smart enough at programming regardless of the language used to accomplish
the majority of the items I included.

It's less that I don't think programmers could do it; it's that operating systems are generally written in very simple languages, and given the advanced nature of AI, implementing it at the lowest level of a system (e.g., in a language like assembly or C) would be like moving buckets of sand with tweezers.  It would be much more practical - to develop as well as to maintain the code/software - for it to be developed in a higher level language and run on top of the OS, but with special access to lower-level components for intelligent micromanagement.

Quote
I do not like the idea of sending everyone's voice samples in to be processed. Everyone has different and unique speech pronunciations,
tones, inflections, dialects (drawls) and slangs not to mention male / female / older /younger. The current method of training the SR
in each of our computers might seem a bit of a pain but it is a pain that ultimately works well for each who does spend the time to train.

True, the current method of training the voice recognition system is at this time the ideal method given the wildly diverse nature of peoples' speech patterns.

However, I believe that with proper centralized intelligent processing, these recognition differences could become much more recognizable as overlaps are identified - clients with similar speech patterns.

Hypothetically, one could speak as part of the registration/initiation, the data could be transferred to a central point, and a certain similar profile could be pulled up and returned.  As time goes on, the profile could become more and more refined as users interact with their computers, which in turn submit the data for further processing, enabling recognition capabilities to advance in leaps and bounds.

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Have you looked hard at Windows or Apple? More than HALF of the "STUFF" in those OS's most people will never use nor have need for it.
A lot of us call that somewhat akin to "Bloatware."

Yep, I've noticed.

I've been trying out Linux as of late and one of the first things I noticed on the minimal install I started with was its inclusion of only the bare necessities and quite literally nothing else.  However, it lists a large number (thousands) of programs and software packages that users can choose to download and install straight from the internet at the click of a button (or an enter key, if a user doesn't choose to install a desktop environment with the OS :P)

Quote
I mentioned the "handshaking" (realization, acknowledgement, awareness, etc.) of additional devices when or if attached to the computer.
These might be scanners, cameras, printers, graphic tablets / pens, etc. Not necessarily PDA's or Smart Phones but they too could be
acknowledged as well. I meant no reference directly about smart phones but rather a real computer on the desktop (or laptop if it could
handle the OS, memory , storage requirements...).

I wasn't referring specifically to phones/PDAs; I was just proposing that the line (with respect to the amount of processing power / memory in a device) be drawn there, or at some equivalent device in terms of system performance.

As for handshaking, I believe every device should come with it - perhaps with driver software already on-board ready to be installed - so that having to download drivers from the internet or install them from CD become a thing of the past.

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Art

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Re: A newer type of OS
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2011, 11:34:57 am »
I've been trying out Linux as of late and one of the first things I noticed on the minimal install I started with was its inclusion of only the bare necessities and quite literally nothing else.  However, it lists a large number (thousands) of programs and software packages that users can choose to download and install straight from the internet at the click of a button (or an enter key, if a user doesn't choose to install a desktop environment with the OS :P)

A few years back...OK several...I converted a failed Windows box to a Linux - Ubuntu Distro. I too liked the way it seemed minimal yet offered quite a huge selection through the library...and it is all free as is the OS.
Kind of like the way things should be. It immediately found everything (device) I attached to it and ran pretty much without incident although I did have to D/L the latest printer driver for my laser printer.
BTW...People should really look at what they usually print. If photos then fine with the inkjet but if most is copies of invoices, payments, messages, notifications, text, etc., then invest in a moderate Laser Printer for
around $100 give or take. You'll get clean, crisp documents for a fraction of the cost and you won't be wasting ink, and having cartriges drying out, smudging, etc.
Now, 90% of my printing is done with my Laser and if I want to print a photo I use the spouses inkjet. Just some food for thought.

I digress, back to Linux...if it were more mainstream it would be amazing as to what it could do. It boots quickly, is extremely secure and permission levels can be set to any desired level. I really think they
should take credit for the expression, "There's an app for that." because there usually in in their online library of programs. You folks who haven't tried Ubuntu really should. There are many flavors or
Distros of Linux, Debian, RedHat, Gentoo, Mandrake (of days gone by) and many others. Ubuntu is aimed toward the masses and is relatively easy to install and have up and running in a very short time.

Try it! ;)
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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TheMikh28

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Re: A newer type of OS
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2011, 06:13:32 pm »
Quote
I digress, back to Linux...if it were more mainstream it would be amazing as to what it could do. It boots quickly, is extremely secure and permission levels can be set to any desired level. I really think they
should take credit for the expression, "There's an app for that." because there usually in in their online library of programs. You folks who haven't tried Ubuntu really should. There are many flavors or
Distros of Linux, Debian, RedHat, Gentoo, Mandrake (of days gone by) and many others. Ubuntu is aimed toward the masses and is relatively easy to install and have up and running in a very short time.

Try it! ;)

My laptop currently dual boots Windows and Ubuntu.  The other desktop I built (as an experimental dedicated offline server) runs on Debian.  Love both!

On my laptop I currently stick to Windows for using software that Ubuntu doesn't support out of the box (music production software, certain audio file formats, flash, Windows-based video games, etc.) since I don't want its file system to become cluttered like my Windows system :P but for everything else, I can see myself using primarily Ubuntu; it runs much smoother, manages memory better, and doesn't cause my CPU to overheat like Windows.

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Art

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Re: A newer type of OS
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2011, 11:58:04 pm »
I absolutely agree and one thing I really liked about it was it just worked! I plugged in my Cat cable
and Ubuntu said, "OK...you've installed a network...no problem!" (in a manner of speaking) ;)

The computer lets you know when there is an update or a newer version to get and it does so
relatively quick.

It just runs smoothly, whether using a nice 3D desktop cube and posting programs on different sides
or multi-tasking - it's Open Source system makes things easier and less "bloated".

Unfortunately, I am and have been a MS user for so long, I'm just another "brick in the wall". (Pink Floyd).
 ;)
In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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Duskrider

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lrh9

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Re: A newer type of OS
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011, 05:53:23 pm »
Art, I like a lot of the ideas in your post. One of my relatives has to order medications every month, and it would be great if that could be handled automatically for her.

But I have to respectfully disagree on some points. While I think it is possible that operating systems might benefit from incorporating artificial intelligence, I think that a lot of the ideas you proposed are outside of operating system scope, excepting the anti-virus idea. Windows all ready seems to be aware of whether or not your anti-virus app is installed, updated, and active. It's not far fetched to say that security and anti-virus should be a part of an operating system.

I think an operating system is responsible for two main things. Providing software access to the hardware, and providing software an environment to run in.

I think the main barrier to your ideas and others is the difficulty of software design and programming, because it is certainly possible to write software that can do what you mentioned. If the software is well written, it can work on multiple different operating systems.

In fact, I bet there are software packages that can do a lot of what you mentioned. I'm sure there are media players and organizers.

I know you don't dabble a lot in programming anymore, but maybe scripting with Python (a multiple operating system language) would tickle your fancy?

I'd say it's almost like programming with English.

The barriers that I haven't gotten around involve interfacing with the operating system and interfacing with hardware.

It's theoretically possible to do both. The first with operating system functions and APIs, and the second with drivers.

I haven't learned to do either, and both seem like difficult problems.

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Art

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Re: A newer type of OS
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2011, 02:35:23 am »
Hi Larry!

Nice to see you about once again and it's OK if you don't quite see things on my wishlist as viable. We shall simply agree to disagree.

I've seen you mention Python on other postings and you seem to really like it. Could you elaborate a bit more about it? Friendly, ease
of use, practical for homewritten apps? Limitations, requirements, memory...pros / cons, etc.

I and perhaps others would really appreciate your first hand review and recommendation of Python. I know I/we could simply type it
into google and read the definition but someone with first hand experience is always more valuable than reading dry text. Thanks!

In the world of AI, it's the thought that counts!

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lrh9

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Re: A newer type of OS
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2011, 03:21:27 am »
Python is an interpreted multiple paradigm language.

It is very expressive. In Python 3 the hello world tutorial is as simple as running (with the Python interpreter) a script containing:

Code
print("Hello, world!")

Compared to the equivalent in C++ (which must be compiled before execution):

Code
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;
int main()
{
  cout << "Hello World!" << endl;
}

Unfortunately its flexibility and expressiveness come at a price. Interpreted programs execute slower than compiled programs. However, for most uses it isn't a problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_paradigm#Multi-paradigm_programming_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multi-paradigm_programming_languages#Four_paradigm-languages

I generally prefer to use the object oriented paradigm.

In the object oriented paradigm, the data your program works with is abstracted as objects.

Objects have data (attributes) and functions that act on that data (methods).

If we were to write a media library, movies could be abstracted by a movie class.

One of the advantages of abstraction could come from polymorphism.

Polymorphism is Greek meaning "having multiple forms", and in object orientation it means that an abstraction can have many different concrete forms, but can be treated the same via the abstraction.

For instance, in our media library perhaps we want our program to work with both media files on the computer and media files on the web.

If we write our movie class correctly, it will represent all movies and have one play method to play any movie.

Our media library (or any other software we write using the class) can play the movie simply by calling the play method, and the movie class implementation will handle the technical details.

If the movie were on the computer, the class would read it from disk. If the movie was a web video, the class would embed a stream.

Unfortunately without an actual problem I can't get much more concrete.

It is also a high level language, so it is more like "glue". Low-level work like hardware interaction is done in a language like C or C++. It is entirely possible to extend Python with modules (think plugins) written in C++, or embed Python in a C++ application. It is even possible to "wrap" C++ dynamically linked libraries. I've done that once, so my knowledge of melding Python to "the system" is virtually nonexistent. I'm sorry I don't know more.

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Re: A newer type of OS
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2011, 03:43:27 am »
Python is an interpreted multiple paradigm language.

Code
print("Hello, world!")

Compared to the equivalent in C++ (which must be compiled before execution):

Code
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;
int main()
{
  cout << "Hello World!" << endl;
}

Unfortunately its flexibility and expressiveness come at a price. Interpreted programs execute slower than compiled programs. However, for most uses it isn't a problem.

or compared to the equivalent in CommonLisp which can be interpreted, compiled incrementally at run time, or compiled into a stand alone binary:

Code
"Hello, World!"

Most of the people using this forum might think that CommonLisp programming is beyond their capabilities or budget, but this is simply not true.

CommonLisp is known as the "tactical nuclear weapons" of software development and while there was a time when you wouldn't even think of trying to use it on less than a million dollars worth of supercomputer, that time is long past because who doesn't have the equivalent of a supercomputer on their desk nowadays?

As obnoxious as it sounds, you cannot do anything serious in artificial intelligence without some familiarity with CommonLisp or a close relative such as Scheme. Personally I would recommend using a free open source implementation like CLISP (my favorite), CMULISP, SBCL or ECL on Linux, but if you really can't do without Windows there are various free implementations available, or you could go for the free personal edition of LispWorks.

That's my $2M worth, you can take it or leave it.  :-X