Integrated information theory (IIT)

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Zero

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Integrated information theory (IIT)
« on: March 03, 2020, 10:21:36 am »
Couldn't sleep last night, I decided to search the web for a solution to what turns out to be called the hard problem of consciousness. And guess what, somebody came up with a really interesting concept about the links between aspects of a subjective experience and plausible properties of a system that experiences them.

It might be one of the most exciting things I've read in years, the approach is very clever and unusual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_information_theory
http://integratedinformationtheory.org/
From the Phenomenology to the Mechanisms of Consciousness: Integrated Information Theory 3.0
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Re: Integrated information theory (IIT)
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2020, 03:48:19 am »
I'll tell you till the end of the universe, you can have any machine allowed in our physics, a hamster, a monkey, a human, an advanced brain, a rock, a hurricane, an iphone. Neither are more unique or alive. Just the way physics works results in us surviving longer lives using probability theory. I don't care if you are a human that loves or whatever or how embarrassing anything is, you are a fuel finder/burner that seeks food and replication for highest probability of survival like cells/fire/arteries/ideas/neurons/teams/sun do (they all spread to free energy). We accidentally crush rabbits on roads and life is creepy. We just say we and our ideas and offspring are the best, obviously most humans will put themselves first to trick death, we were designed that way since we survived by doing that and ARE here hence why we are here. Same for why Earth nearly perfectly rotates around the sun - it was one out of a trillion and that's why we are here. We aren't lucky to have the physics we have, we are happy like a river to do what it makes us do, flow. Our brain is a network hierarchy that builds data relations to correctly survive, we use past experience probabilities to predict/make the future when we never seen a question like this before and need a new solution using similar past problems. That's why we do better in a world that we know where, what, and when everything is - it helps us predict better and minimize energy needed (free energy therefore). See Hutter Prize for AGI evaluation. Earth will become a complete fractal pattern of nanobot modules. Arteries etc are fractals so to probablistcally reach most areas for dispersing/collecting blood. Nuclear rods, wood, batteries, gasoline all look motionless and cold but can extract free energy, and so does Data Compressors extract free knowledge insights ex. you know cat eats and dog=cat, therefore dog eats too! Probability is raised higher. Like data compressors/extractors, stars and atoms are unstable when too large and give back the captured matter, black holes are just these big bangers that explode free energy from nowhere. And the bigger they get the more they pull in, until explode/extract material. Black hole, white hole. All matter is data and it has patterns because all particles are similar and have only a few types of elementary properties. We repair missing data, that's what all AI does. So does DNA in cells and cities. Earth is just turning into a spreading fire (but as patterns emerging instead) so to repair missing data/employees and use least energy and receive least change (death) probability. Like in the core of a sun, all context workers on Earth interact from afar and local neighbors are most effective, like a dictionary all words explain each other and only  few steps is all it takes to get from one word to any other - small world friend network......the trend here is probability, spreading/growing context size to max space, survival, patterns are utilized as a bag of context that all affect each other and are used to extract<>compress new patterns to create yet more, an exponential curve...the growth is really big and strong steady aka sun/humans.....bigger>more interaction>survival.....Earth wants to become an aligned cooperative brain to quickestly propagate brain waves like a magnet or sun and the domain is now 1 big single powerful beam with an aligned powerful focus, magnetism is key and requires less energy like superconductors.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 05:00:45 pm by LOCKSUIT »
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HS

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Re: Integrated information theory (IIT)
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2020, 04:18:45 am »
What do you think we believe about consciousness that is incorrect?

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: Integrated information theory (IIT)
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2020, 06:41:36 am »
Most people are not exactly wrong, everyone has good and bad work, but there is a lot of hues in their ways that are ugly. Most think they are alive and special and really do see out their eyeballs on their face yes I mean exactly that, or think there is a spirit ghost in their brain or that they are a conscious awoken machine or even to the point of knowing they are fully a machine but there is some mechanism that unlocks consciousness.....deep breath: no. No there isn't. We can't test such either. We are just machines trying to say 'don't kill me' and it does a fine job! The physics is on our side and that's why we're here also, we are patterns that emerge, yup. We are a collective context hive as explained, teams are stronger and so are multi facts in a brain network as well, and neurons/employees that die everyday are replaced and repairing is more than lost, death rates are like that too. More get a job to live life than those losing a job lol! Get that. We are a machine that wants to hope we are something more or why we want to stay alive, and our food/sex drive is why we hate pain, it's in built, and we like the idea that we are totally separable from matter....but we aren't. We aren't the center of the universe and you may die tomorrow. All our experience like we survive a operation or awake back up and are mostly the same person is flawed because it is just the machine with the same agendas and doing its own thing, none of that means anything about spirits in a machine. You can't have spirits, everything in your house is a big machine, just particles... Besides, I'm making bigger progress by following the scientific ways. Doing so results in more real results.
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Re: Integrated information theory (IIT)
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2020, 07:23:52 am »
Tough concept. I'll work on it though, maybe I'll be able to see it your way and get on a faster path to success. No use getting stuck in my own beliefs, I think people tend to do that too much lol.

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WriterOfMinds

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Re: Integrated information theory (IIT)
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2020, 03:15:50 pm »
It's also no use being so open-minded that your brains fall out.  Locksuit isn't asking you to give up some faith-based belief. He's asking you to deny empirical facts.  He thinks he's being scientific, but science depends on observation, and therefore doesn't go around claiming that readily observable phenomena don't exist.

And you can observe your own consciousness, can't you?  What else should we call the thing that turns on and off when you come in and out of sleep?  If these experiences you're currently experiencing are an illusion, who is being fooled?

You don't have to believe in souls or spirits or ghosts or whatever to accept the fact of your own phenomenal consciousness.  What does consciousness necessarily have to do with spirits?  It could be there's just something about matter in certain configurations that generates it.  But some people lack the imagination to envision how physics could do that, or they're so scared of spirituality that they panic and run away from concepts that even seem as if they might be spiritual. This leads them into absurdities ... like pretending, in defiance of the evidence, that their first-person experience stream doesn't exist.

Based on previous posts, Lock seems to have a hangup about the fact that we can't see consciousness in brains; we can only see some other phenomena that appear to be correlated with it, like certain wave patterns. But why would anyone ask to see consciousness?  Do you try to hear light?  Do you try to smell music?  You already have a perfectly good detector (introspection) for consciousness, albeit it only detects your own and not anybody else's.  So use that; you don't need to detect it with your eyes too.

Consciousness is a kind of feeling, and feelings can't be illusory.  Oh, they can cause illusions.  Suppose I could stimulate the nerves in your hand so that it felt like you were touching a white-hot flame.  This might fool you into thinking that there was actually a flame there.  And you would be wrong ... the flame wouldn't be real.  But the feeling of burning would still be completely real.  And the question of whether or not your pain was being caused by a real flame would probably be less important to you than the certain reality of said pain.  You would infer the existence of a flame, but you would know the existence of the pain.

So if Lock thinks that ghosts are an illusion, big deal ... that's irrelevant to the present discussion.  Phenomenal consciousness might make you think there's a spirit behind it, and it might be fooling you, but the answer to that question doesn't affect the reality of phenomenal consciousness.  PC is just a name for first-person experience itself, the feeling of existence itself.  PC is the burning sensation, not the flame.

Whether consciousness is in any sense "magic" or spiritual, and whether it makes us more special than the inanimate parts of the universe, are debatable topics.  Whether consciousness exists is not a debatable topic.  I'm not prepared to reject observed reality for anybody.

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Re: Integrated information theory (IIT)
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2020, 03:56:24 pm »
Yes, you need to empirically observe the bear exiting a cave and do real tests to stay grounded in reality, but most of AI/intelligence is about generating predictions using past information and that's why my 'philophiocal preachings' with 0 tests and 0 people saying what I'm saying, are extremely important. If you don't generate ideas, you have no brain to extract free knowledge ex. if cats eat and cats are dogs, then dogs probably eat (34% sure with the data and frequency seen so far). Big data has a massively combinational effect too, it's the powerhorse for AI, just a few facts and it covers millions of analogies.

People that say god exists are my mom that say she can truly feel him in her body and truly twitch on the floor in the rare case from his touch. Yup. She fell to the ground one time in a church. She really hears him talk to her. She is quickened as she calls it. It's just thoughts, it's just the AI doing its thinking. You just have 2 cameras on your skull is all....and a neural hierarchy as a brain that strings together words and groups words run=walk, red=blue. AI can say 'don't kill me', and say 'i really do see x', but it is just doing its reactions. To be in the right, you have to do a lot of thinking and study a lot of data on the internet, everyone thinks they are right without a lot of rethinking! It takes open mind guts. I have understood our thoughts and how we dream in the night, the daydreams (imagining stuff while awake) and how seeing/etc directly anything is all dreaming, yup, remember those illusions HS showed? They modify what your brain predicts it sees using global context vote...the shape, color, brightness, motion, location, what it is, if it is good/sexy (ex. girl standing near car). All humans do is labor and survival, and AI can replace all that, we don't need consciousness and that shows a lot of why there is no consciousness...it's not testable or required.
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LOCKSUIT

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Re: Integrated information theory (IIT)
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2020, 05:01:09 pm »
"...fuel finder/burner that seeks food and replication for highest probability of survival like cells/fire/arteries/ideas/neurons/teams/sun do (they all spread to free energy). ....."

also the trend here is probability, spreading/growing context size to max space, survival, patterns are utilized as a bag of context that all affect each other and are used to extract<>compress new patterns to create yet more, an exponential curve...the growth is really big and strong steady aka sun/humans.....bigger>more interaction>survival.....Earth wants to become an aligned cooperative brain to quickestly propagate brain waves like a magnet or sun and the domain is now 1 big single powerful beam with an aligned powerful focus, magnetism is key and requires less energy like superconductors; less change; less transdduction; immortality.

it was said the brain looked like a pattern of fabric under the microscope and as well the naked eye, and so will Earth terraform into a fractal.

the more that are born than die example is exactly why technology is evolving at exponential speed today, it can add more context faster and then it is bigger and can add more more faster...repeat
« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 05:25:10 pm by LOCKSUIT »
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Re: Integrated information theory (IIT)
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2020, 09:33:09 pm »
Lock, would you agree that you are a system of particles which is experiencing the world?

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: Integrated information theory (IIT)
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2020, 03:15:09 am »
I agree I am a system of particles that is not experiencing the world. Although I will say I see and love girls houses food etc it doesn't mean I'm magical or experience phelasuralismnal testemonies of the higher nethar for real.

No matter the system of particles, none experience the world, but everything reacts through physics. You have to get by the machine you are first to see why, you are thinking too high of yourself...this doesn't mean you have to hurt yourself just you know the truth...
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Re: Integrated information theory (IIT)
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2020, 04:58:30 am »
So would it be fair to say that we are systems of particles which see the world? If so, what does it take to see the world?

Edit: Or are you saying that although you may say “I see and feel”, you don’t actually see or feel. Then what are these things I’m seeing and feeling? Why aren’t they necessary or important? How do you know we are unlucky to have our physics?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 07:51:11 am by Hopefully Something »

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Re: Integrated information theory (IIT)
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2020, 08:59:31 am »
As a side-note: Buddhists believe that consciousness itself is an illusion, and I read somewhere (sorry, don't remember where) that the sensation of "continuity of consciousness", that makes it feels like a stream, is actually a constructed sensation rather than a perceived one.

I think I understand a good part of IIT, but not all of it. I can't get my head around what they call a "cause-effect repertoire". If someone can help me understand it, that would be great!

Quote
A mechanism can contribute to consciousness only if it specifies a cause-effect repertoire (information) that is irreducible to independent components. Integration/irreducibility φ is assessed by partitioning the mechanism and measuring what difference this makes to its cause-effect repertoire.

Maybe I'll e-mail and ask them.

However, the phenomenology alone is great to have described so precisely:

Quote
The central axioms, which are taken to be immediately evident, are as follows:

Existence: Consciousness exists – it is an undeniable aspect of reality. Paraphrasing Descartes, “I experience therefore I am”.

Composition: Consciousness is compositional (structured): each experience consists of multiple aspects in various combinations. Within the same experience, one can see, for example, left and right, red and blue, a triangle and a square, a red triangle on the left, a blue square on the right, and so on.

Information: Consciousness is informative: each experience differs in its particular way from other possible experiences. Thus, an experience of pure darkness is what it is by differing, in its particular way, from an immense number of other possible experiences. A small subset of these possible experiences includes, for example, all the frames of all possible movies.

Integration: Consciousness is integrated: each experience is (strongly) irreducible to non-interdependent components. Thus, experiencing the word “SONO” written in the middle of a blank page is irreducible to an experience of the word “SO” at the right border of a half-page, plus an experience of the word “NO” on the left border of another half page – the experience is whole. Similarly, seeing a red triangle is irreducible to seeing a triangle but no red color, plus a red patch but no triangle.

Exclusion: Consciousness is exclusive: each experience excludes all others – at any given time there is only one experience having its full content, rather than a superposition of multiple partial experiences; each experience has definite borders – certain things can be experienced and others cannot; each experience has a particular spatial and temporal grain – it flows at a particular speed, and it has a certain resolution such that some distinctions are possible and finer or coarser distinctions are not.
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LOCKSUIT

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Re: Integrated information theory (IIT)
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2020, 10:26:03 am »
"So would it be fair to say that we are systems of particles which see the world? If so, what does it take to see the world?

Edit: Or are you saying that although you may say %u201CI see and feel%u201D, you don%u2019t actually see or feel. Then what are these things I%u2019m seeing and feeling? Why aren%u2019t they necessary or important? How do you know we are unlucky to have our physics?"


I know you feel alive and say things, and say you see all your visual field etc.......but everythng you are doing (your bran, arm, cells...) is particles reacting.....you are totally a machine.......you can't create anything to see the world, as you are reading this neither of us know/see/hear English or visual understanding, nor Chinese, but we both have brains tat can work with English etc rather. You just need a camera and the right input/output mappings for responses and correct memory activation which results in linked motor actions.....and you can see all this if you study it hard....yup, we are machines. Besides, have you seen inside a human body? It's all blood n tubulars n stuffz and not pretty atractor like the outside was evolved to be.

Because physics is how everything works, set  rules and no magic. And I proved it that all particles can either only folow set laws or act random. Therefore, we are happy to be doing what we are doing in physics, the physics we have, as we have no choice. We arnt lucky to have these physics.
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Re: Integrated information theory (IIT)
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2020, 07:48:18 pm »
I know you feel alive

You also feel alive? That's what I mean by consciousness. I think feeling alive is really important to replicate in AGI’s. What would be the point of anything without it?

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LOCKSUIT

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Re: Integrated information theory (IIT)
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2020, 08:30:48 pm »
No I don't 'feel alive'. I just love stimuli and thoughts that are linked to stimuli (games, science, collecting data, building shelter).. What do I need 'feel alive' being said out my mouth when I am happy without even hearing it?? In fact we were all (including animals) born as simple-thinking things that would never even be able to say 'i feel alive' or 'aliens got the fabricated jojopans peace yeall' and that just wanted to get the taste on its tongue, the mates in its view, and the other stimuli going. Around age 6 or so for humans the 'seasoned thoughts' start rollin on in like God, space exploration, forests, shame, rules, norms, fairy tales, algebra, accepting death, etc, anything, seriously, anything, look at all those words in a dictionary. You aren't born that way. Simply the group communication enables high level thoughts to develop and after a few thousand years are super crazy and get instantly shared to newborns. The direct stimuli is strong, the thoughts are stimuli too but simply are anything (any image or text etc) strung together as sequences in a hierarchy and heterarchy, and it is used to get the survival stimuli (food/sex). Animals usually just think using vision, and they don't think about God etc because their thoughts aren't advanced enough from past generations, they are lost when they die after 9 years in a dog's life.

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